Inside the Spitfire factory

[Eric Mc]

There is some sound track of original Sabres at work - and they sound VERY different to Merlins or Griffons.. They are much more raucous and emit a tearing-ripping sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo0Lv1S3RfQ

[LotusOmega375D]

My mum’s boss used to fly Typhoons (and many other types). Here’s a link to some pages in his log book. New Year’s Day 1945 was eventful. His airfield in Holland was strafed by Me262, Me109s and FW190s whilst he was driving his Jeep and one of his squadron was killed.

https://cvhf.org.uk/special-projects/david-grevill...

[Ayahuasca]

LotusOmega375D said:

My mum’s boss used to fly Typhoons (and many other types). Here’s a link to some pages in his log book. New Year’s Day 1945 was eventful. His airfield in Holland was strafed by Me262, Me109s and FW190s whilst he was driving his Jeep and one of his squadron was killed.

https://cvhf.org.uk/special-projects/david-grevill...

Interesting. Seems that the runways were dangerous places to be whether there was enemy around or not.

[Eric Mc]

LotusOmega375D said:

My mum’s boss used to fly Typhoons (and many other types). Here’s a link to some pages in his log book. New Year’s Day 1945 was eventful. His airfield in Holland was strafed by Me262, Me109s and FW190s whilst he was driving his Jeep and one of his squadron was killed.

https://cvhf.org.uk/special-projects/david-grevill...

Sounds like that was Operation Bodenplatte - the air element of Germany's Ardennes Offensive.

[aeropilot]

dr_gn said:

The Mosquito required fuselage moulds for non-conventional wooden construction. So I’d say that was far more onerous than a Typhoon’s conventional metal construction.

They already existed prior to that, as Glynn Powell had already built them prior to this project starting, so that wasn't a factor in the costs of building KA114.

Actually, the hours in terms of build time for the wood structure from what I have seen from Avespecs was less for a Mosquito than a stressed skin fighter like a Spitfire and P-40.

And the Typhoon construction apart from the rear fuselage is more like a Hurricane than a say a Spitfire, and Hurricanes are a lot more expensive to build today than a Spitifre or P-51 (the reverse of 80 years ago) and when you see sums mentioned in the Spitfire Factory programme of £2m to rebuild the Greek Spitfire, when you have significant economies of scale factored in with the amount of Spits being rebuilt, I still think £5m is not enough.

[aeropilot]

Yertis said:

TBH I'd be very happy if they just got it to taxiable condition. Just hearing it start up would be worth all the effort.

Agreed.
And I still think this is the most likely best scenario outcome of this project, as I'm not convinced that an airworthy Sabre will be achieved.

[Dr Jekyll]

Does anyone recognise the airfield where the Merlin was tested on a truck?

[Eric Mc]

I thought it might be Kemble. They had mentioned they were going to Gloucestershire and there were Airbuses parked in the background.

[Dr Jekyll]

Thanks

[aeropilot]

Dr Jekyll said:

Does anyone recognise the airfield where the Merlin was tested on a truck?

Given where Retro, Track & Air are located, and the little bit of airfield you could see, I would make an educated guess that it was Kemble.

[eccles]

aeropilot said:

dr_gn said:

The Mosquito required fuselage moulds for non-conventional wooden construction. So I’d say that was far more onerous than a Typhoon’s conventional metal construction.

They already existed prior to that, as Glynn Powell had already built them prior to this project starting, so that wasn't a factor in the costs of building KA114.

Actually, the hours in terms of build time for the wood structure from what I have seen from Avespecs was less for a Mosquito than a stressed skin fighter like a Spitfire and P-40.

And the Typhoon construction apart from the rear fuselage is more like a Hurricane than a say a Spitfire, and Hurricanes are a lot more expensive to build today than a Spitifre or P-51 (the reverse of 80 years ago) and when you see sums mentioned in the Spitfire Factory programme of £2m to rebuild the Greek Spitfire, when you have significant economies of scale factored in with the amount of Spits being rebuilt, I still think £5m is not enough.

I was surprised by how relatively cheap (!) they said the Merlin was at £375K, I thought it would be more expensive.

[Mark V GTD]

£375k for one Merlin - I don't think so. That would get you a pair with change left over.
Maybe they meant New Zealand dollars - that would get you an overhauled Merlin and a Ham Stan prop (for a Mossie).

Edited by Mark V GTD on Tuesday 27th October 20:17

[eccles]

Mark V GTD said:

£375k for one Merlin - I don't think so. That would get you a pair with change left over.

That was the price quoted in the episode last night.

[aeropilot]

eccles said:

Mark V GTD said:

£375k for one Merlin - I don't think so. That would get you a pair with change left over.

That was the price quoted in the episode last night.

Pretty sure the guy said.....125 to 175k for the Merlin rebuild, which is about the going rate from what I remember of the figures reported for the zero time engine rebuilds for Just Jane's engines which were done by Maurice Hammond several years ago.

[eccles]

aeropilot said:

eccles said:

Mark V GTD said:

£375k for one Merlin - I don't think so. That would get you a pair with change left over.

That was the price quoted in the episode last night.

Pretty sure the guy said.....125 to 175k for the Merlin rebuild, which is about the going rate from what I remember of the figures reported for the zero time engine rebuilds for Just Jane's engines which were done by Maurice Hammond several years ago.

My Mistake, just watched the bit back and he said a rebuilt engine was £135K, with servicing costs rising to £250K over 500 flying hours. That still seems very cheap to me for a pretty complex engine compared to something like a zero hours Lycoming.

[Mark V GTD]

No worries - yes I would expect to have to pay around £125k for a UK overhaul of a time expired engine (known as a 'core') from one of the two sources mentioned above. Eye Tech certainly do fantastic work. Most Merlins generally run to about 500 hours operating time before needing a complete re-build but there are are also intermediate maintenance requirements starting at the 25 hour mark. Traditionally not many operated for much more than 50 hours a year so it was a ten year cycle for many operators. But with the new(ish) CAA regulations permitting passenger flying in warbird types such as the Spitfire utilization has gone up appreciably and with it more frequent engine rebuilds and propeller overhauls (also hours lifed). This has started to expose lack of supplies of some of the rarer items and, for example, relatively recently the Rotol propeller hub has gone back in to production as supplies of overhaulable originals largely dried up.

[CanAm]

eccles said:

My Mistake, just watched the bit back and he said a rebuilt engine was £135K, with servicing costs rising to £250K over 500 flying hours. That still seems very cheap to me for a pretty complex engine compared to something like a zero hours Lycoming.

Yes , £135k for the rebuild, involving 2,000 man/hours, as they confirmed later on that it was the original Merlin from the Greek Spitfire.

[Mark V GTD]

Russian Spitfire (PT879) successfully flown this morning for the first time in 75 years. Big 'well done' to Pete Monk and all the staff at BHHH.

[Eric Mc]

Where did they get that one from?

[Yertis]

Russia, at a guess.