Inside the Spitfire factory

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Discussion

Eric Mc

121,770 posts

264 months

Tuesday 6th October 2020
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All you wanted to know about "Night Fright". Like so many DC-3/C-47s, she's had a long and colourful history -

https://www.night-fright.com/history/

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Tuesday 6th October 2020
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I wonder whether some sort of official permission is needed to fly old aircraft in military colours?


eharding

13,594 posts

283 months

Tuesday 6th October 2020
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Ayahuasca said:
I wonder whether some sort of official permission is needed to fly old aircraft in military colours?
You need a CAA registration exemption, and for foreign markings you need permission from the government of the foreign nation concerned - at least, as I recall. When we repainted G-YAKH in the "White 33" colour scheme (historically from a WW2 Lavochkin) the process was eased by one of the group members - an Air Commodore - schmoozing the Russian air-attache at the time into signing off the relevant paper work - I think some slap-up dinners at the RAF club were involved. Not sure if the Russians would still be so convivial about it today. One of the Nanchangs at White Waltham is in PLAAF colours, and when a second one arrived the owners wanted a similar scheme, but the Chinese embassy basically told them to do one, and that was that (and no-one can remember how they got the sign off for the first one...) - so the second one ended up in Sri Lankan colours.

Edited: - that is of course you want an authentic scheme without a UK registration marking - if you're happy to have the G-reg painted over your colour scheme, you can have what you want (although you might run into trouble flying into Germany with some original Luftwaffe markings)

Edited by eharding on Tuesday 6th October 19:57

Simpo Two

85,147 posts

264 months

Tuesday 6th October 2020
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eharding said:
Ayahuasca said:
I wonder whether some sort of official permission is needed to fly old aircraft in military colours?
You need a CAA registration exemption, and for foreign markings you need permission from the government of the foreign nation concerned - at least, as I recall. When we repainted G-YAKH in the "White 33" colour scheme (historically from a WW2 Lavochkin) the process was eased by one of the group members - an Air Commodore - schmoozing the Russian air-attache at the time into signing off the relevant paper work - I think some slap-up dinners at the RAF club were involved. Not sure if the Russians would still be so convivial about it today.
So what would they do, send over a fighter to shoot you down? I do have a contact who flew a large desk in Whitehall, but regrettably no warbird with which to exploit the advantage!

eharding

13,594 posts

283 months

Tuesday 6th October 2020
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
eharding said:
Ayahuasca said:
I wonder whether some sort of official permission is needed to fly old aircraft in military colours?
You need a CAA registration exemption, and for foreign markings you need permission from the government of the foreign nation concerned - at least, as I recall. When we repainted G-YAKH in the "White 33" colour scheme (historically from a WW2 Lavochkin) the process was eased by one of the group members - an Air Commodore - schmoozing the Russian air-attache at the time into signing off the relevant paper work - I think some slap-up dinners at the RAF club were involved. Not sure if the Russians would still be so convivial about it today.
So what would they do, send over a fighter to shoot you down? I do have a contact who flew a large desk in Whitehall, but regrettably no warbird with which to exploit the advantage!
The trouble would be with the CAA, not the Russians - no note from the embassy to OK the paint scheme, no reg exemption from the CAA, as per the Chinese experience....

Eric Mc

121,770 posts

264 months

Tuesday 6th October 2020
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Watching Episode 2 tonight. I’m really enjoying it. I liked the coverage they gave to the Typhoon restoration project.

Siko

1,976 posts

241 months

Wednesday 7th October 2020
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It’s absolutely brilliant and Peter and his son come across incredibly well, let alone everyone else. Having had the misfortune of meeting a well known parent and sibling, airshow Spitfire pilot royalty a few years back, who were both incredibly rude and arrogant, I’ve always been sceptical about some of these ‘characters’ in the community.

But peter monk comes across as nothing more than an out and out enthusiast and a decent bloke who you could happily have a beer with, this is one of the best programmes on historic aviation I’ve seen....and I’ve seen a lot biggrin

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Wednesday 7th October 2020
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Good second program.

Moving to see the paratroops drop, although I suspect the D day ones dropped from a much lower altitude.

Great that a Tiffie is being restored.

aeropilot

34,294 posts

226 months

Wednesday 7th October 2020
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Ayahuasca said:
Moving to see the paratroops drop, although I suspect the D day ones dropped from a much lower altitude.
Just a bit.

On D-Day they dropped at just 700ft...........at night.

Eric Mc

121,770 posts

264 months

Wednesday 7th October 2020
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aeropilot said:
Just a bit.

On D-Day they dropped at just 700ft...........at night.
With no reserve chute (too low to use anyway).

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Wednesday 7th October 2020
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Coincidentally, I just read today an accident report about a US paratroop jump master who was killed when the slipstream opened his reserve chute and yanked him out of the aircraft ...

aeropilot

34,294 posts

226 months

Thursday 8th October 2020
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Eric Mc said:
aeropilot said:
Just a bit.

On D-Day they dropped at just 700ft...........at night.
With no reserve chute (too low to use anyway).
The US Airborne troops did have a reserve chute, the British Airborne didn't.

Eric Mc

121,770 posts

264 months

Thursday 8th October 2020
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I was thinking of the Brits.

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Thursday 8th October 2020
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D Day. Americans with, Brits without. Both sets remarkably cheerful looking.

Eric Mc

121,770 posts

264 months

Thursday 8th October 2020
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I can see where Ryanair get their seating ideas from.

aeropilot

34,294 posts

226 months

Thursday 8th October 2020
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Ayahuasca said:
Short Stirling by the looks of it.


Yertis

18,015 posts

265 months

Friday 9th October 2020
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aeropilot said:
Short Stirling by the looks of it.
D'you reckon? I was wondering. Is't the Stirling a bit more slab sided than that though?

aeropilot

34,294 posts

226 months

Friday 9th October 2020
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Yertis said:
aeropilot said:
Short Stirling by the looks of it.
D'you reckon? I was wondering. Is't the Stirling a bit more slab sided than that though?
I'm pretty sure it is based on the shape/detail of the fuselage longeron's, and the fact that the only other option would be a Halifax which has a slightly different longeron shape, plus the Halifax wasn't as roomy inside as the Stirling for para's, with a sloping rear underside towards the tail. I think its too big to be an Albermarle (if it is though it would mean these were Pathfinders, as they were the only only ones dropped by Ablemarle's on D-Day)

Yertis

18,015 posts

265 months

Friday 9th October 2020
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aeropilot said:
I'm pretty sure it is based on the shape/detail of the fuselage longeron's, and the fact that the only other option would be a Halifax which has a slightly different longeron shape, plus the Halifax wasn't as roomy inside as the Stirling for para's, with a sloping rear underside towards the tail. I think its too big to be an Albermarle (if it is though it would mean these were Pathfinders, as they were the only only ones dropped by Ablemarle's on D-Day)
thumbup

(Also, I'm impressed by your longeron knowledge, indeed by the use of the word 'longeron'. I once used the word in front of an Air Cadet officer who insisted that the correct word was 'aileron', and that it referred to 'the flaps on the wings'. Even as a 14 year old I knew he was talking out of his backside.)

Penguinracer

1,593 posts

205 months

Friday 9th October 2020
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I'd love to see more coverage of the Griffon Spits - sure they were much rarer than the Merlins but they were the ultimate development & can be bracketed with my favs such as the Sea Fury, P51 & Bearcat.