Telescope advice
Discussion
We are trying to choose an astronomical telescope for our grandson , for Christmas
The more I read , the more confused I become .
The three types , compound , refractor and reflector each have pros and cons.
Firstly , budget , around £100 +/- £50 , so limited performance will have to be accepted
Use, Planets inc moon and stars ,with Venus and Mercury nearby at present , it would be nice to see some detail there .
Also to be able to link both iphone and perhaps SLR camera to eyepiece,
For ease of use it appears the choice is refractor or reflector
A refractor apparently has poor performance on faint objects , whereas reflector ( which I am drawn to ) has good all round performance ,but can suffer dusty mirrors and optics moving out of alignment .
Guidance would be appreciated
The more I read , the more confused I become .
The three types , compound , refractor and reflector each have pros and cons.
Firstly , budget , around £100 +/- £50 , so limited performance will have to be accepted
Use, Planets inc moon and stars ,with Venus and Mercury nearby at present , it would be nice to see some detail there .
Also to be able to link both iphone and perhaps SLR camera to eyepiece,
For ease of use it appears the choice is refractor or reflector
A refractor apparently has poor performance on faint objects , whereas reflector ( which I am drawn to ) has good all round performance ,but can suffer dusty mirrors and optics moving out of alignment .
Guidance would be appreciated
Read this link to set some expectations:
https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can...
I'd go for a reflector personally - the resolution of everything you see is based on the diameter of the lens (or mirror). Mirrors are cheaper than lenses for a given size. Don't worry about collimation (lining the mirrors up) - it's easy to do.
Go for a table top dobsonian - comfy to use, easy to transport and set up. Comes with a built in tripod.
A Sky-Watcher Heritage 130 (5 inch mirror) would be in your budget - get the 150 (6 inch mirror!) if you want to stretch it a bit.
I'd order now - stock has been very short over the past few months on all astro stuff.
https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can...
I'd go for a reflector personally - the resolution of everything you see is based on the diameter of the lens (or mirror). Mirrors are cheaper than lenses for a given size. Don't worry about collimation (lining the mirrors up) - it's easy to do.
Go for a table top dobsonian - comfy to use, easy to transport and set up. Comes with a built in tripod.
A Sky-Watcher Heritage 130 (5 inch mirror) would be in your budget - get the 150 (6 inch mirror!) if you want to stretch it a bit.
I'd order now - stock has been very short over the past few months on all astro stuff.
cwis said:
Read this link to set some expectations:
https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can...
I'd go for a reflector personally - the resolution of everything you see is based on the diameter of the lens (or mirror). Mirrors are cheaper than lenses for a given size. Don't worry about collimation (lining the mirrors up) - it's easy to do.
Go for a table top dobsonian - comfy to use, easy to transport and set up. Comes with a built in tripod.
A Sky-Watcher Heritage 130 (5 inch mirror) would be in your budget - get the 150 (6 inch mirror!) if you want to stretch it a bit.
I'd order now - stock has been very short over the past few months on all astro stuff.
That link is great , thanks very much . https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can...
I'd go for a reflector personally - the resolution of everything you see is based on the diameter of the lens (or mirror). Mirrors are cheaper than lenses for a given size. Don't worry about collimation (lining the mirrors up) - it's easy to do.
Go for a table top dobsonian - comfy to use, easy to transport and set up. Comes with a built in tripod.
A Sky-Watcher Heritage 130 (5 inch mirror) would be in your budget - get the 150 (6 inch mirror!) if you want to stretch it a bit.
I'd order now - stock has been very short over the past few months on all astro stuff.
I now know where to set my expectations , and to see actual images from 4in telescopes , something that is absent from , say, Amazon listings , is very useful .
I have not yet looked at the telescopes you pointed me to ( bit early ) , need a bit more time to sit down and look at the options , but stretching the budget to look at a 6in telescope looks to be on the cards .
Thanks again .
As someone who’s started off this year in this world of telescopes, I assumed at the beginning that the mount was absolutely critical to being able to see anything.
I suppose it may be for serious time-lapse astrophotography etc, but for casual back garden observing and iPhone photos it doesn’t help right now. Especially with apps on your phone that visually tell you where everything is.
A cheap mount+tripod will be heavy, wobble and be a fiddle to move about. A lot of the time I just pick the telescope up and move it instead of aligning it.
So basically i see the appeal of Dobsonian mounts now, they hold the scope very stably but are not mechanically complex allowing more money to be spent on the telescope. And if one day you want to buy an expensive tracking mount, you can use the same scope.
I suppose it may be for serious time-lapse astrophotography etc, but for casual back garden observing and iPhone photos it doesn’t help right now. Especially with apps on your phone that visually tell you where everything is.
A cheap mount+tripod will be heavy, wobble and be a fiddle to move about. A lot of the time I just pick the telescope up and move it instead of aligning it.
So basically i see the appeal of Dobsonian mounts now, they hold the scope very stably but are not mechanically complex allowing more money to be spent on the telescope. And if one day you want to buy an expensive tracking mount, you can use the same scope.
Edited by essayer on Wednesday 28th October 07:41
All good points above (and notably the current general stock shortage in astronomy equipment - as commented, order early to avoid disappointment).
As ever, I'd recommend giving First Light Optics a call with your requirements - other excellent UK dealers are also available.
Regardless of the type of telescope chosen, it might be worth trying to add a subscription to an astronomy magazine for the year as part of the Christmas present (Sky at Night magazine is very good) - the monthly guides on what to see throughout the year help to keep up an interest in the telescope. Alternatively, or additionally, there is also a monthly Sky at Night observing guide on YouTube.
If you're going to be with your grandson over Christmas, you can do some useful preparation during the day with the telescope even if the weather is overcast, by focussing on the most distant features you can find and noting the position of the focuser (it will probably be slightly different with different eyepieces), as well as aligning the finder scope - a lot easier to do this in daylight beforehand rather than trying it at night! The focus won't be completely correct, but near enough to be easily corrected for astronomical objects.
eharding said:
As ever, I'd recommend giving First Light Optics a call with your requirements - other excellent UK dealers are also available.
Completely agree - often cheaper than Amazon etc and are willing to price match too. They are talking a 3 week lead time at the moment on the telescopes I mentioned.As for the photography side of it - look at what this chap did with a pair of binoculars and a phone camera...
https://youtu.be/njk0cfnjpV8
cwis said:
As for the photography side of it - look at what this chap did with a pair of binoculars and a phone camera...
https://youtu.be/njk0cfnjpV8
Always good to see some Astrobiscuit.... https://youtu.be/njk0cfnjpV8
cwis said:
eharding said:
As ever, I'd recommend giving First Light Optics a call with your requirements - other excellent UK dealers are also available.
Completely agree - often cheaper than Amazon etc and are willing to price match too. They are talking a 3 week lead time at the moment on the telescopes I mentioned.As for the photography side of it - look at what this chap did with a pair of binoculars and a phone camera...
https://youtu.be/njk0cfnjpV8
A slightly alternative view...be sure it's the right gift.
I bought a cheap telescope some years ago - lidl or aldi one.
I was dead excited to set it up and look at the majesty of the cosmos. I was always an avid view of everything Sir Patrick did and subsequently Brian Cox / Dara.
I set it up, found the moon, and was amazed at what you could see...blown away.
Fitted the higher mag optics, found the moon with difficulty...and was blown away for about 2 seconds as the bloody moon raced past my field of view.
I then found Mars (and despite living in one of the darkest bits of the UK) was utterly underwhelmed.
My experience...ideally you need a motorised mount to see the interesting stuff on the moon, and beyond the moon, you need to spend lot of money on a scope for the fantasy of star gazing to get anywhere near the reality.
I bought a cheap telescope some years ago - lidl or aldi one.
I was dead excited to set it up and look at the majesty of the cosmos. I was always an avid view of everything Sir Patrick did and subsequently Brian Cox / Dara.
I set it up, found the moon, and was amazed at what you could see...blown away.
Fitted the higher mag optics, found the moon with difficulty...and was blown away for about 2 seconds as the bloody moon raced past my field of view.
I then found Mars (and despite living in one of the darkest bits of the UK) was utterly underwhelmed.
My experience...ideally you need a motorised mount to see the interesting stuff on the moon, and beyond the moon, you need to spend lot of money on a scope for the fantasy of star gazing to get anywhere near the reality.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
A slightly alternative view...be sure it's the right gift.
I bought a cheap telescope some years ago - lidl or aldi one.
I was dead excited to set it up and look at the majesty of the cosmos. I was always an avid view of everything Sir Patrick did and subsequently Brian Cox / Dara.
I set it up, found the moon, and was amazed at what you could see...blown away.
Fitted the higher mag optics, found the moon with difficulty...and was blown away for about 2 seconds as the bloody moon raced past my field of view.
I then found Mars (and despite living in one of the darkest bits of the UK) was utterly underwhelmed.
My experience...ideally you need a motorised mount to see the interesting stuff on the moon, and beyond the moon, you need to spend lot of money on a scope for the fantasy of star gazing to get anywhere near the reality.
That's a bit like saying you're not going to help get your grandson get his first very modestly powered car because he won't be able to go out and set a lap record round the Nürburgring in it. I bought a cheap telescope some years ago - lidl or aldi one.
I was dead excited to set it up and look at the majesty of the cosmos. I was always an avid view of everything Sir Patrick did and subsequently Brian Cox / Dara.
I set it up, found the moon, and was amazed at what you could see...blown away.
Fitted the higher mag optics, found the moon with difficulty...and was blown away for about 2 seconds as the bloody moon raced past my field of view.
I then found Mars (and despite living in one of the darkest bits of the UK) was utterly underwhelmed.
My experience...ideally you need a motorised mount to see the interesting stuff on the moon, and beyond the moon, you need to spend lot of money on a scope for the fantasy of star gazing to get anywhere near the reality.
Plenty of enjoyment to be had from introductory equipment in both cases, as long as you understand the limitations of the gear. Also, you're slightly less likely to end up going sideways through a hedge with your first telescope than you are with your first car (although if TVR had ever made telescopes there was a good chance they'd have a nasty habit of swinging wildly out of control around the zenith)
Edited by eharding on Wednesday 28th October 17:16
eharding said:
That's a bit like saying you're not going to help get your grandson get his first very modestly powered car because he won't be able to go out and set a lap record round the Nürburgring in it.
Plenty of enjoyment to be had from introductory equipment in both cases, as long as you understand the limitations of the gear. Also, you're slightly less likely to end up going sideways through a hedge with your first telescope than you are with your first car.
Not really comparable. Plenty of enjoyment to be had from introductory equipment in both cases, as long as you understand the limitations of the gear. Also, you're slightly less likely to end up going sideways through a hedge with your first telescope than you are with your first car.
My son loves science and astronomy... He was spellbound when we took him to see Brian Cox when he was 10 last year.
He was utterly underwhelmed when I showed him the planets through my scope.
Just wanted to offer a word of caution to the op. My son got way more out of seeing Brian Cox and planetarium and observatory visits.
cwis said:
I am SO pleased I read this. Thank you for posting.I have recently become interested in cameras - the first time in my life. As with all my hobbies, I seek different ways to use my hobby and one I have been circling around to is astrophotography. I have a colleague who has already taken the plunge and has shown me some of his pictures from his many thousands of pounds of investment and, well... Hubble does take better pics.
My colleague's images are quite decent but I've realised having seen what he has taken, and what's possible from the link you provided, that I'd likely spend all that money on scopes and motorised mounts, and with the small results possible from inside the atmosphere, get bored after a few weeks.
I'm going to borrow a scope first - see how much I use it, then decide.
Watchman said:
cwis said:
I am SO pleased I read this. Thank you for posting.I have recently become interested in cameras - the first time in my life. As with all my hobbies, I seek different ways to use my hobby and one I have been circling around to is astrophotography. I have a colleague who has already taken the plunge and has shown me some of his pictures from his many thousands of pounds of investment and, well... Hubble does take better pics.
My colleague's images are quite decent but I've realised having seen what he has taken, and what's possible from the link you provided, that I'd likely spend all that money on scopes and motorised mounts, and with the small results possible from inside the atmosphere, get bored after a few weeks.
I'm going to borrow a scope first - see how much I use it, then decide.
The quality of the lens can be a factor - the Samyang/Rokinon 135mm F/2.0 seems to be very popular for astrophotography, as it is very sharp and the fully manual operation isn't a drawback as you would typically be unable to use autofocus anyway - but start with what you've got and see how it goes.
You can use just an intervalometer to control exposures as a minimum, but I'd highly recommend connecting the camera to a laptop and using Astro Photography Tool, a fantastic piece of software (and at less than £20 for the paid-for version, an absolute bargain).
In general, the wider the field of view in astrophotography, the easier things are - hence starting off with a stock DSLR and lens is a great introduction - plenty of online reference material and guides - Trevor Jones with his Astrobackyard YouTube channel and blog has a number of excellent articles and videos on the subject e.g. Covering the Samyang/Rokinon 135mm F/2 and Astrophotography with a (cheap) camera lens
Always worth installing a copy of Stellarium, enabling the 'Oculars' plug in, entering the details of your camera sensor and lens, and then seeing how the resultant field of view presents objects in the night sky to get a feel for suitable targets.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
eharding said:
That's a bit like saying you're not going to help get your grandson get his first very modestly powered car because he won't be able to go out and set a lap record round the Nürburgring in it.
Plenty of enjoyment to be had from introductory equipment in both cases, as long as you understand the limitations of the gear. Also, you're slightly less likely to end up going sideways through a hedge with your first telescope than you are with your first car.
Not really comparable. Plenty of enjoyment to be had from introductory equipment in both cases, as long as you understand the limitations of the gear. Also, you're slightly less likely to end up going sideways through a hedge with your first telescope than you are with your first car.
My son loves science and astronomy... He was spellbound when we took him to see Brian Cox when he was 10 last year.
He was utterly underwhelmed when I showed him the planets through my scope.
Just wanted to offer a word of caution to the op. My son got way more out of seeing Brian Cox and planetarium and observatory visits.
A good rule of thumb is to look at the box - if it has detailed pictures of nebulae, galaxies and planets on it, together with the maximum magnification emblazoned in large lettering, then it really is probably better suited for looking at the neighbour's tits than it is for astronomy. They don't tend to put pictures of those on the box though.
Edited by eharding on Thursday 29th October 12:40
Being the OP , I have followed this with interest , The problem was getting a reasonable telescope for the budget we had set .
I had looked at many sellers but the problem was generally stock ,lack of .Or high price
Also I took on board the comments regarding grandson losing interest ,
So started sniffing around eBay and found a Sky-Watcher Explorer 130 with all kit ,which I won for less than a third of normal SP .
Grandson can now get a taste of stargazing , if he shows interest , we can upgrade to a better instrument ,and get money back by selling the eBay purchase on.
I had looked at many sellers but the problem was generally stock ,lack of .Or high price
Also I took on board the comments regarding grandson losing interest ,
So started sniffing around eBay and found a Sky-Watcher Explorer 130 with all kit ,which I won for less than a third of normal SP .
Grandson can now get a taste of stargazing , if he shows interest , we can upgrade to a better instrument ,and get money back by selling the eBay purchase on.
MXRod said:
Being the OP , I have followed this with interest , The problem was getting a reasonable telescope for the budget we had set .
I had looked at many sellers but the problem was generally stock ,lack of .Or high price
Also I took on board the comments regarding grandson losing interest ,
So started sniffing around eBay and found a Sky-Watcher Explorer 130 with all kit ,which I won for less than a third of normal SP .
Grandson can now get a taste of stargazing , if he shows interest , we can upgrade to a better instrument ,and get money back by selling the eBay purchase on.
Excellent solution!I had looked at many sellers but the problem was generally stock ,lack of .Or high price
Also I took on board the comments regarding grandson losing interest ,
So started sniffing around eBay and found a Sky-Watcher Explorer 130 with all kit ,which I won for less than a third of normal SP .
Grandson can now get a taste of stargazing , if he shows interest , we can upgrade to a better instrument ,and get money back by selling the eBay purchase on.
eharding said:
MXRod said:
Being the OP , I have followed this with interest , The problem was getting a reasonable telescope for the budget we had set .
I had looked at many sellers but the problem was generally stock ,lack of .Or high price
Also I took on board the comments regarding grandson losing interest ,
So started sniffing around eBay and found a Sky-Watcher Explorer 130 with all kit ,which I won for less than a third of normal SP .
Grandson can now get a taste of stargazing , if he shows interest , we can upgrade to a better instrument ,and get money back by selling the eBay purchase on.
Excellent solution!I had looked at many sellers but the problem was generally stock ,lack of .Or high price
Also I took on board the comments regarding grandson losing interest ,
So started sniffing around eBay and found a Sky-Watcher Explorer 130 with all kit ,which I won for less than a third of normal SP .
Grandson can now get a taste of stargazing , if he shows interest , we can upgrade to a better instrument ,and get money back by selling the eBay purchase on.
The first post after the OP should have been
1. What age is your grandson
2, Has he actually requested a telescope
3. How much do you want to spend?
If he has shown no interest in stargazing before and this is a buy to get him interested in it, then I would not even bother.
Finally, my stock solution would still be to get him a good pair of binoculars and a small cheap tripod
I find this post rather odd . My original post and enquiry was discussed , advice was given (as requested ) and a solution was arrived at which covered the points I had asked about to my satisfaction .
This lead me to source a S/H telescope ,which , should my grandson loose interest , I would easily recover my outlay .
I will try to answer the points made in this post , I have copy/pasted the post so I can answer individual points
Gandhar says
“This is the problem with all these sort of posts, people just start chipping in with what they want to buy”
I am not seeing any post relating to individual requirements , only relating to interest raised and future plans
“The first post after the OP should have been”
“1. What age is your grandson”
Easy answered if I had been asked 13 yrs
“2, Has he actually requested a telescope”
Indirectly , as he has a monocular spotting scope in a tripod which he turns skyward on occasions
“3. How much do you want to spend?”
Covered in OP
“If he has shown no interest in stargazing before and this is a buy to get him interested in it, then I would not even bother.”
Why not offer a path to another interest , especially as there has been a hint the youngster may be interested . By that reasoning you would never offer an alternative hobby / interest to any youngster , eg model making , sports ( equipment ) and this goes for both sexes .I had also covered the situation where he either has no interest or looses interest
“Finally, my stock solution would still be to get him a good pair of binoculars and a small cheap tripod”
Covered in item 2
This lead me to source a S/H telescope ,which , should my grandson loose interest , I would easily recover my outlay .
I will try to answer the points made in this post , I have copy/pasted the post so I can answer individual points
Gandhar says
“This is the problem with all these sort of posts, people just start chipping in with what they want to buy”
I am not seeing any post relating to individual requirements , only relating to interest raised and future plans
“The first post after the OP should have been”
“1. What age is your grandson”
Easy answered if I had been asked 13 yrs
“2, Has he actually requested a telescope”
Indirectly , as he has a monocular spotting scope in a tripod which he turns skyward on occasions
“3. How much do you want to spend?”
Covered in OP
“If he has shown no interest in stargazing before and this is a buy to get him interested in it, then I would not even bother.”
Why not offer a path to another interest , especially as there has been a hint the youngster may be interested . By that reasoning you would never offer an alternative hobby / interest to any youngster , eg model making , sports ( equipment ) and this goes for both sexes .I had also covered the situation where he either has no interest or looses interest
“Finally, my stock solution would still be to get him a good pair of binoculars and a small cheap tripod”
Covered in item 2
Edited by MXRod on Thursday 5th November 09:43
No idea where to put this for interested in the topic so plumped for here, sorry not taken from amateur telescope!
https://twistedsifter.com/2020/11/there-are-10-mil...
Dark Energy Camera (DECam) at the Cerro Tololo Observatory in Chile, captured this incredible image of stars clustered near the center of the Milky Way Galaxy! Worth click on imagery and zooming in! mind blowing amount of stars! Too much light near london to see much stars let alone have a clear sky!
https://twistedsifter.com/2020/11/there-are-10-mil...
Dark Energy Camera (DECam) at the Cerro Tololo Observatory in Chile, captured this incredible image of stars clustered near the center of the Milky Way Galaxy! Worth click on imagery and zooming in! mind blowing amount of stars! Too much light near london to see much stars let alone have a clear sky!
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