Ukrainian Air Force
Discussion
roverspeed said:
How effectively can the raft of nato elint and awacs aircraft flying up and down the Ukrainian border assist the forces in the air and on the ground? Is it simple radio relays of positions etc?
E-3's can detect med/high altitude out to almost 400miles, so any E-3 operating inside NATO borders along Romanian, Czech, Slovak and Polish borders will be able to cover anything flying in Ukrainian airspace up to the Dniper river, but not beyond that into Eastern Ukraine.I'd be guessing that the NATO military 'advisors' that were up to a couple of weeks ago, have likely left some mobile secure comms uplink kit behind at various locations, as Russia would have targeted the static and known Ukranian comms and radar installations with the cruise missiles on Day 1.
andyA700 said:
LotusOmega375D said:
Is it too late to send an RAF C17 back to Ukraine to collect our anti-tank missiles and launchers before they get surrendered to the Russians and analysed/reverse-engineered?
Do you really think that the country who first put a man in space and currently runs the ISS, are so technologically backward that they cannot design anti tank weapons?I don’t know why someone earlier postulated that the TU-160 was any use to Ukraine.
Right now they most useful assets are Hind-D. SU-27 & Mig-29.
All 3 of which the Ukrainians are using very well.
Their Il-76 fleet I have a soft spot for but won’t be much use now.
They have shot down a few Russian IL-76’s though.
Right now they most useful assets are Hind-D. SU-27 & Mig-29.
All 3 of which the Ukrainians are using very well.
Their Il-76 fleet I have a soft spot for but won’t be much use now.
They have shot down a few Russian IL-76’s though.
Lots of these types or variations thereof up in the air hoovering up information, co-ordinating etc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_E-8...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_early_warni...
https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/airseeker-rc-135w-...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_RC-135
The baffling thing about this invasion is that the Russians seem very un-coordinated and bad comms - some of the captured troops allegedly claiming they thought they were on exercises, poorly protected supply columns with no air cover, running out of fuel, etc etc
Several media outlets discussing the likelihood of imminent deliveries of "jet fighters" from other EU countries.
Can't imagine they have the time for a new type rating or training, and no one else in Europe flies Sukhois, so off the top of my head, Bulgaria has MiG-29 and Su-25, Slovakia has MiG-29 and Poland has MiG-29 and Su-22.
Although the Slovakian and particularly the Polish MiGs are considerably upgraded with many westernized systems.
Interesting Idea, as these countries are all in the process of fazing these types out anyways.
Whatever happens, cracking work by the Ukrainians in so far denying the Russians air superiority. I doubt the numbers claimed of downed Russian aircraft but to still be in the game at this point is a real one in the eye for the Russian war plan.
Can't imagine they have the time for a new type rating or training, and no one else in Europe flies Sukhois, so off the top of my head, Bulgaria has MiG-29 and Su-25, Slovakia has MiG-29 and Poland has MiG-29 and Su-22.
Although the Slovakian and particularly the Polish MiGs are considerably upgraded with many westernized systems.
Interesting Idea, as these countries are all in the process of fazing these types out anyways.
Whatever happens, cracking work by the Ukrainians in so far denying the Russians air superiority. I doubt the numbers claimed of downed Russian aircraft but to still be in the game at this point is a real one in the eye for the Russian war plan.
Yes, Slovak MiG-29's due to be all out of service by next year, as incoming used F-16 deliveries have already started, as with the Poles.
Hungary and Czech Rep got rid of their 29's a few years ago, so likely they are no longer airworthy, or may have even been dismantled/scrapped, but could still mean decent parts supply from those sources.
Look like remaining AA missile stocks from all those countries have already been sent across the border as well.
Hungary and Czech Rep got rid of their 29's a few years ago, so likely they are no longer airworthy, or may have even been dismantled/scrapped, but could still mean decent parts supply from those sources.
Look like remaining AA missile stocks from all those countries have already been sent across the border as well.
Jake899 said:
One source saying there are still Luftwaffe MiG-29s in storage.. Can that be true? I'm sure they can't quickly be brought to readiness if so.
Not true IIRC.Pretty sure all the remaining Lufty MiG-29's went to the Polish AF about 20 years ago, and they have none in storage, so, if the Poles sent theirs to Ukraine, some of them may be the ex-German ones.
Having seen the long lines of Russian convoys on satellite imagery, it would be a turkey shoot for some A10s…
Can anyone confirm that the Ukrainian Air Force is still on the attack? I would have thought that the Russians would have destroyed the Ukrainian airbases and most of the aircraft by now.
Can anyone confirm that the Ukrainian Air Force is still on the attack? I would have thought that the Russians would have destroyed the Ukrainian airbases and most of the aircraft by now.
LotusOmega375D said:
Having seen the long lines of Russian convoys on satellite imagery, it would be a turkey shoot for some A10s…
Can anyone confirm that the Ukrainian Air Force is still on the attack? I would have thought that the Russians would have destroyed the Ukrainian airbases and most of the aircraft by now.
Not much about this conflict can be confirmed at this point. As of yesterday there were reports of fighters in the air, and two days ago the Ukrainians Turkish made drone fleet struck a Russian convoy. It will be interesting to see facts appear over time about what has been going on.Can anyone confirm that the Ukrainian Air Force is still on the attack? I would have thought that the Russians would have destroyed the Ukrainian airbases and most of the aircraft by now.
Ukraine still have the Su-25, which is near as whiskers to a Russian built A10, just without quite such a big gun. But in uncontested skies (which of course neither side in the Ukraine has) they still make a very effective air to ground platform.
LotusOmega375D said:
Having seen the long lines of Russian convoys on satellite imagery, it would be a turkey shoot for some A10s…
Can anyone confirm that the Ukrainian Air Force is still on the attack? I would have thought that the Russians would have destroyed the Ukrainian airbases and most of the aircraft by now.
There's been very little reported/seen of how much if any of their Su-24 attack fleet is still intact or useable (it was based in the western area) or its Su-25 Frogfoot Regiment, as that was based in the south near to the annexed Crimea area, so that might well be toast, or we're just not seeing it in media/social media.Can anyone confirm that the Ukrainian Air Force is still on the attack? I would have thought that the Russians would have destroyed the Ukrainian airbases and most of the aircraft by now.
The MiG-29's/Su-27's and S300 anti-aircraft batteries seem to have held their own in that regard, although, the picture of the downed Ukrainian Flanker in that urban area is proof the Russians have taken a toll of some of their fleet, either by air assets or by their ground anti-air assets.
I have a list of all airbases/airports/air strips in Europe and I just checked all the list in Ukraine on Google Earth.
Focusing purely on "fighter" current types in the Ukrainian Inventory, i.e. the MiG-29, Su-27, Su-25 and Su-24 I made a count of what was visible on the ground.
I ignored trainer, lead in and transport types, and i also discounted any airframes that were obviously in museum areas or shown to be incomplete.
Before I list numbers, I would also add that Google Earth can't see what is in hangars, nor can it tell what aircraft are in flyable condition, so take this as a gross approximation:
Lutsk Volyn: Su-24x27, MiG-29x2
Lviv: Su-24x18, MiG-29x15
Ivano Frankiusk: MiG-29x32
Starokostyantyniv: Su-24x54, MiG-29x13
Ozerne: Su-27x4
Bila Tserkva: Su-24x33, MiG-29x1
Kropyvnytskyi: Su-24x3
Martyniuske: Su-27x3
Odessa: Su-27x4, Su-24x9, MiG-29x18
Dnipro: MiG-29x5
Chuhuiv: Su-24x26
Mychorod: Su-27x27
Giving us a total of:
Su-24 x 170
Su-27 x 38
MiG-29 x 86
Doubtless a large percentage of these are in outside storage and unflyable, but also a large percentage of flyable airframes will be tucked up in covered revetments and hangars.
Wikipedia is saying there are:
MiG-29x37
Su-24x12
Su-25x17 (none showing on Google Earth)
Su-27x 32
Focusing purely on "fighter" current types in the Ukrainian Inventory, i.e. the MiG-29, Su-27, Su-25 and Su-24 I made a count of what was visible on the ground.
I ignored trainer, lead in and transport types, and i also discounted any airframes that were obviously in museum areas or shown to be incomplete.
Before I list numbers, I would also add that Google Earth can't see what is in hangars, nor can it tell what aircraft are in flyable condition, so take this as a gross approximation:
Lutsk Volyn: Su-24x27, MiG-29x2
Lviv: Su-24x18, MiG-29x15
Ivano Frankiusk: MiG-29x32
Starokostyantyniv: Su-24x54, MiG-29x13
Ozerne: Su-27x4
Bila Tserkva: Su-24x33, MiG-29x1
Kropyvnytskyi: Su-24x3
Martyniuske: Su-27x3
Odessa: Su-27x4, Su-24x9, MiG-29x18
Dnipro: MiG-29x5
Chuhuiv: Su-24x26
Mychorod: Su-27x27
Giving us a total of:
Su-24 x 170
Su-27 x 38
MiG-29 x 86
Doubtless a large percentage of these are in outside storage and unflyable, but also a large percentage of flyable airframes will be tucked up in covered revetments and hangars.
Wikipedia is saying there are:
MiG-29x37
Su-24x12
Su-25x17 (none showing on Google Earth)
Su-27x 32
Information about what is and isn't serviceable is very thin on the ground - the initial rocket/missile attacks will have inevitably put a dent in the available assets, and then a few days of rough combat against a numerically superior force... Who knows!
They're also being very tight on information about their own forces, including discouraging citizens from sharing videos etc on social media etc.
They're also being very tight on information about their own forces, including discouraging citizens from sharing videos etc on social media etc.
Could be the case that they were out of ammo and therefore couldn't be used after the first couple of days. There was an ammo replen from across the countries in NATO that could contribute. This was for AAM from what I saw.
The lack of Air Force activity could also be related to gearing up to bring in replacement airframes.
I have seen one picture of Su-24s attacking Antonov airfield with parachute retarded free fall bombs, and I have seen another picture of a Mig-29 on the ground. There have also been some fleeting images of Su-27s (Ukr. have a lot of Blue in the camo) and Mig-29s. There is a possibility that the video of the Mig-29 firing rockets at a target (rumoured to be a helicopter) next to a house showed Ukrainian air force aircraft too. It is believable that a heli would go to ground to escape fast jet attention - a bit last ditch. I think it is more likely that Mig-29s over the battlefield are Ukr. rather than Russian from what I have seen so far.
Very unfortunately there have been losses on the Ukr. side. The insta account for the Ukr. Air Force listed the following:
The President of Ukraine awarded the title of Hero of Ukraine to pilots:
Vagoroskiy Eduard - lieutenant colonel (posthumously);
Kolomiets Dmytro - major (posthumously)
Matulyak Gennadiy - lieutenant colonel (posthumously);
Movchan Vitaliy - lieutenant (posthumously)
Oksanchenko Oleksandr - colonel (posthumously);
Radionov Vyacheslav - senior lieutenant (posthumously)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CaiWl-Js1Ul/?utm_sourc...
Colonel Oksanchenko won an award for his display routine at RIAT 2017, RAF Fairford. I have some photos of him from their arrival at the airfield but won't put my Insta here as it shows who I am.
The lack of Air Force activity could also be related to gearing up to bring in replacement airframes.
I have seen one picture of Su-24s attacking Antonov airfield with parachute retarded free fall bombs, and I have seen another picture of a Mig-29 on the ground. There have also been some fleeting images of Su-27s (Ukr. have a lot of Blue in the camo) and Mig-29s. There is a possibility that the video of the Mig-29 firing rockets at a target (rumoured to be a helicopter) next to a house showed Ukrainian air force aircraft too. It is believable that a heli would go to ground to escape fast jet attention - a bit last ditch. I think it is more likely that Mig-29s over the battlefield are Ukr. rather than Russian from what I have seen so far.
Very unfortunately there have been losses on the Ukr. side. The insta account for the Ukr. Air Force listed the following:
The President of Ukraine awarded the title of Hero of Ukraine to pilots:
Vagoroskiy Eduard - lieutenant colonel (posthumously);
Kolomiets Dmytro - major (posthumously)
Matulyak Gennadiy - lieutenant colonel (posthumously);
Movchan Vitaliy - lieutenant (posthumously)
Oksanchenko Oleksandr - colonel (posthumously);
Radionov Vyacheslav - senior lieutenant (posthumously)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CaiWl-Js1Ul/?utm_sourc...
Colonel Oksanchenko won an award for his display routine at RIAT 2017, RAF Fairford. I have some photos of him from their arrival at the airfield but won't put my Insta here as it shows who I am.
coanda said:
I think it is more likely that Mig-29s over the battlefield are Ukr. rather than Russian from what I have seen so far.
Where the hell is the Russian Air Force? With many more airframes and much newer equipment???I think the long Twitter analysis linked yesterday morning has it right - Putin is used to quick-and-easy wins which can be dressed up as 'police actions' or 'limited operations' or 'rescue missions' (sic). So that's how they went into this...lot of second-line men and materiel on the ground to ensure numerical superiority, but little combined-arms actions as they didn't want it to look like a full-scale invasion.
Photo is a bit "noisy", but this is an SU27 from the Ukranian Air Force at RIAT in 2018, flown by Colonel Oleksandr Oksanchenko who was sadly shot down by Russian forces on Friday
R.I.P. Colonel.
SU27 by Jim Pritchard, on Flickr
R.I.P. Colonel.
SU27 by Jim Pritchard, on FlickrEquus said:
That went well for them, then?
To be fair, given the military resources at their disposal, most commentators have observed that they've gone about it rather half-heartedly.
Reasons vary:-
- politics - Putin's preference for diguising stuff like this as 'special operations', so as to avoid serious sanctions (yeah, went well...
)- over-confidence - 2014 was a cake-walk into Crimea, they expected the same, but Ukraine has had 8 years to re-train and re-arm.
- logistics - they can't actually support their whole army
- discord in the different branches of the armed forces
- cannon fodder - get the defenders to use up their limited higher-tech weaponry against 2nd line troops early, then send the seasoned vets in to mop-up with little effective resistance left.
Whatever the reason, I suspect that Ukraine will need ALL the additional materiel being sent over pretty soon...
havoc said:
Reasons vary:-
- politics - Putin's preference for diguising stuff like this as 'special operations', so as to avoid serious sanctions (yeah, went well... )
- over-confidence - 2014 was a cake-walk into Crimea, they expected the same, but Ukraine has had 8 years to re-train and re-arm.
- logistics - they can't actually support their whole army
- discord in the different branches of the armed forces
- cannon fodder - get the defenders to use up their limited higher-tech weaponry against 2nd line troops early, then send the seasoned vets in to mop-up with little effective resistance left.
Probably a combination of all of the above.- politics - Putin's preference for diguising stuff like this as 'special operations', so as to avoid serious sanctions (yeah, went well...
)- over-confidence - 2014 was a cake-walk into Crimea, they expected the same, but Ukraine has had 8 years to re-train and re-arm.
- logistics - they can't actually support their whole army
- discord in the different branches of the armed forces
- cannon fodder - get the defenders to use up their limited higher-tech weaponry against 2nd line troops early, then send the seasoned vets in to mop-up with little effective resistance left.
The last point seems to have some evidence, with the likelyhood they weren't even being told they were entering a shooting war.
Shades of WW2 with the party Commisars driving their cannon fodder towards the Germans with threats of being shot by their own side if they didn't.
Putin doesn't care about the Russian people one iota, no Soviet or Russian leader ever has.....maybe the ones that allowed the end of the Soviet Union did in the hope they were doing so, and probably did up until Mad Vlad took over....and started to look after number one.
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