Ask a helicopter pilot anything

Ask a helicopter pilot anything

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mikal83

5,340 posts

251 months

Wednesday 11th January 2023
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Siko said:
TO73074E said:
Whatever makes your task easier!

I'll stop being stupid and throw a serious one your way now. How many different types of helicopter have you flown (civilian or military etc) and do you have a favourite / least favourite and why?
Hey don't worry I'm happy to answer anything....I didn't think anyone would be interested anyway smile

Have flown Squirrel HT1 (AS350), Bell 412 HT1/HAR2 (Huey basically), Puma HC1, Merlin HC3, Agusta 109 and Sikorsky S92A all as Captain/P1. Other types I've flown as a jolly or just as a co-pilot for air experience include Gazelle, Sea-King, AS355, Lynx, Sikorsky S76...ones I've only flown in the simulator include Chinook and EC225 (Super Puma).

Probably my least favourite was the Sea King which I feel a bit guilty about. It was like a big boring tank, slow, heavy and dull....I jumped in the LHS for a trial which involved flying the same procedure for nearly 2 hours and actually fell asleep - I got woken up by the pilot flying it who punched me on the shoulder and was not happy smile Favourite was probably the Gazelle...it's got a huge bubble canopy, is fast as fck for a helicopter and is responsible for me being a helicopter pilot today. When I joined the RAF and went through officer training we did a station visit to the tornado F3 base at RAF Leuchars, we visited the Tornado Squadron and it was all very exciting, sat in an F3 but very much look don't touch, now fck off please. Luckily we were also hosted by an Army Air Corps gazelle flight based there, they took me and a chum flying and we spent an hour of my life at probably a max height of 50' and doubt we went below 120knots...chasing deer across Scotland and generally having a blast....was the most fun I'd had in my life at that stage and here we are smile
Ah too old for the Mighty Wasp. Reached perfection with the first so only one Mk.

spikeyhead

17,222 posts

196 months

Wednesday 11th January 2023
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Good luck with the recovery

Djtemeka

1,802 posts

191 months

Wednesday 11th January 2023
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Siko said:
Good Morning all,

I thought a brief update might be worthwhile as I have a had a couple of PMs from people interested in a career as a helicopter pilot who have found this thread through the search function. I have been asked about the merits of throwing a bucket of cash at outfits offering a modular route to becoming a helicopter pilot, such as Helicentre etc. Whilst I can't promise anyone a job (!) from investing a small mortgage in obtaining a CPL H (IR), I can say it does seem a very good time to be going through training and you would stand a good chance of getting fulltime paid employment as a pilot, in the offshore world at least. Obviously there are many hoops to jump through to get there - but timing is everything and I think it's good right now.

There are several reasons for this - firstly Brexit and believe me, I am not going down that rabbithole biggrin so I will just report what I have been told by friends of mine who are senior trainers at some of our rivals. They have noticed the supply of european pilots CVs steadily drying up, as there are costs/complications involved from converting EASA > CAA licences and of course going back again, as many of those pilots don't want to permanently fly in the UK. At the base I managed a few years back, from around 45 pilots I would estimate about 15 were Europeans (Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, Germans etc and lots of Dutch....all great guys and girls). Whilst you can still convert your licence the barriers in place (and vice versa of course) are putting Europeans off. That is bad for them but good for UK pilots and my opinion is that it is a great shame as they were some of our best pilots, but I appreciate if you are a new British trainee pilot then your job prospects got a lot better.

Secondly the supply of pilots from the military has 'dried' up according to the flying schools. Whilst I take this claim with a pinch of salt as I don't see any drastic reduction in the size of the UK military helicopter forces, my personal experience is that I can't remember the last new joiner at my company direct from the military and a few years back there was a steady drip of one or two very few months. This is also reported by my colleagues at other companies that they are getting very few CVs from current or retiring military pilots, so I do think there is some truth in it for whatever reason. Just to add to this - along with the squeeze on supply, outflow is still going - we have seen a steady drain of pilots going abroad, retiring, getting sick or moving elsewhere in the UK, all of whom need replacing.

Lastly the work is picking up and particularly so in the offshore world. Whilst I have my own opinions on the SNP/Greens in Scotland, they did their best to court the offshore industry when the oil price was sky high as it paid for independence, but since the oil price crashed around 2015 they have done their best to finish us off in whatever form they could - opposing new licences, new development etc which has affected the industry. Whilst energy is a UK reserved matter the SNP does carry a lot of weight on the matter in Scotland and companies have backed out of new developments after intervention from the SNP and their Green friends. However, what happened of course was the end of Covid restrictions increasing demand for oil, combined with Putin's war on Ukraine....I think more sensible heads than the SNP etc have realised the UK needs energy independence rather than relying on Russian Gas or even LNG from the ME/USA. Whilst I see in 2030 only net zero cars will be on sale it is quite clear that we as a country are not remotely ready for that move and I suspect the oil industry will be pumping North Sea oil for a long time to come. So - business is picking up in offshore and lots of other areas look like they are booming too - SAR have just signed a new 10 year contract with extra bases, so overall I do honestly think it is a good time to train as a helicopter pilot.

Finally - as a personal update I looked at the date of my last post in here and about 12 days afterwards I was diagnosed with cancer and grounded (count me as one of those sickies!). I have had extensive surgery, 6 weeks radio/chemotherapy in the autumn and am currently waiting for my big scan in Feb to (touch wood) confirm it has all gone. The prognosis was very positive (about 90% chance of success - again touch wood!) but all bets are off until they have completed a PET scan on the body. I'm still grounded and hopeful of a return to flying but other friends who have undergone cancer treatment have been grounded for upto 3 years, so this year might see some fairly large lifestyle changes, but we'll see. For anyone still awake, thanks for reading and have a great 2023 smile

Edited by Siko on Wednesday 11th January 09:28
You really need to change your user name biggrin


2fast748

1,091 posts

194 months

Wednesday 11th January 2023
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Good luck with the recovery!

Geneve

3,857 posts

218 months

Friday 13th January 2023
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All the best for a full and fast recovery.
Friend of mine went through similar, but was back in the air within 6 months and he’s a CAA examiner.

Siko

Original Poster:

1,976 posts

241 months

Friday 13th January 2023
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Thanks again for the kind words - that’s very encouraging to know about your CAA chum mate. A friend of mine who had early stage lung cancer which was cured by surgery - no radio/chemotherapy is grounded for 3 years. Obviously I’m just focussed on getting clear first and foremost but anticipating a fight when I do (touch wood….again!).

djc206

12,241 posts

124 months

Friday 13th January 2023
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Siko said:
Thanks again for the kind words - that’s very encouraging to know about your CAA chum mate. A friend of mine who had early stage lung cancer which was cured by surgery - no radio/chemotherapy is grounded for 3 years. Obviously I’m just focussed on getting clear first and foremost but anticipating a fight when I do (touch wood….again!).
I’m sure the CAA make their decisions regarding medicals using dice or a magic 8 ball, there seldom seems much logic behind their decisions and never any haste. Good luck getting back in the sky and with your February scan.

DavieBNL

292 posts

62 months

Friday 13th January 2023
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Best wishes Siko; and thanks, this is a great thread.

jamiem555

750 posts

210 months

Sunday 15th January 2023
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Aww, bloody hell Si, I'm sorry to hear that. I had a brush with cancer in 2008 but luckily it was spotted very early and just the surgery sorted it out! Give me a shout next time your in Abz and we'll see if we can meet for a coffee or something. Jamie

Siko

Original Poster:

1,976 posts

241 months

Sunday 15th January 2023
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jamiem555 said:
Aww, bloody hell Si, I'm sorry to hear that. I had a brush with cancer in 2008 but luckily it was spotted very early and just the surgery sorted it out! Give me a shout next time your in Abz and we'll see if we can meet for a coffee or something. Jamie
Thanks Jamie - never knew you had it too, getting it treated early is key to it all of course. Beer sounds great when I’m back oop north - hoping to return to work if all goes well in Feb or Mar dependent of course on what the caa says….

Miserablegit

4,013 posts

108 months

Sunday 15th January 2023
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Wish you a speedy recovery. I’ve enjoyed reading the thread.

Deerfoot

4,897 posts

183 months

Sunday 15th January 2023
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Fingers crossed OP.

Lost ranger

312 posts

64 months

Sunday 15th January 2023
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If someone wants to learn to fly a helicopter for fun, what's best to learn on? Assuming budget is not unlimited but would stretch to something pricier than an R22 if it was worth it.

Siko

Original Poster:

1,976 posts

241 months

Sunday 15th January 2023
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Lost ranger said:
If someone wants to learn to fly a helicopter for fun, what's best to learn on? Assuming budget is not unlimited but would stretch to something pricier than an R22 if it was worth it.
Well it depends on how deep your pockets are but anything rotary is bloody expensive! This is well out of date and no doubt others in here have more upto date information but when I did my CPL H IR in 2012, an hour in an R22 was about £250 or so. I went from nothing to a type rated Agusta 109C pilot with a CPL H and then IR in 7 hours 35 mins biggrin That was some going and as I was paying for it mostly myself (the military paid about £2k as part of my resettlement) that made it a lot less painful - the hourly rate I was paying for the A109C was £1800. To go vaguely back to answering your question iirc back in 2012 a nice gas turbine aircraft like an AS350 was circa £6-700hr.

I think if I was learning to fly a helicopter and had deep pockets I would go for a cheap gas turbine like the AS350 Squirrel, but I have nothing against R22s and everyone I know who has flown them seems to love them which says it all I guess. An AS350 is a generation ahead of an R22 and significantly easier to fly too - like comparing a BMW 320d with a Morris Minor…

McGee_22

6,654 posts

178 months

Sunday 15th January 2023
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Hi Siko - great thread (I only found it today) but so sorry to hear of your recent troubles - best of luck with the scan showing you're through it.

I've had a few interesting helicopter flights and thought I'd post them.

My first helo experience was inn the RN - I'd was a young marine engineer on Sea Training making my way around each department onboard HMS Fife - an old guided missile destroyer. It had a Lynx onboard and I was due on the last flight out that day (along with three others) as part of our departmental 'training'. The helo had been up three times already and so we ran out after the last passengers were clear, got straped in and mic'd up and the first thing the Pilot said after introducing himself was - 'Who's heard that helicopters can't fly upside down?' We immediately bit - the Pilot took off and proceeded to go straight up and into a loop - it was a simply amazing first flight and of course the pilot continued to show off with only us and the ship as spectators as we were mid-Atlantic on our way across. To finish our 10 minute or so flight and to increase his Mess bill he buzzed the bridge without permission and then finished up fairly safely compared to how he'd started.

Whilst on Fife we also had a Sea King land - it was massive compared to the Lynx and I've sure the blades overhung the narrow flight deck - but to be fair it had been designed for a Wessex which was no small thing either. I seem to remember a Wasp landing too - it was 1987 and we were with a Frigate or two - it was a a long time ago now.

Our next flight was on our honeymoon - we went to Moreton Island just off Brisbane and booked to go on a helicopter flight - when we walked there we were met with a Bell 47 - just like Mash but only bright yellow. The Pilot was ex Aussie Forces and as it was a bright sunny day dispensed with unnecessary items like doors. My wife was terrified to sit on the outside so sat cosy in the middle with Pilot on the left and me hanging out the right with only a 1960's lap-belt for safety. It was about 20 minutes of sightseeing over the island and the sea - highlights were whales, dolphins and an enormous sea turtle that was taking in some sun on the surface. It was noisy, it vibrated like hell but it was oh so cool flying around with my feet out on the top of the skids.

Next up a few years later was a flight up from the bottom of the Franz Joseph Glacier on the South Island of New Zealand. I'm not sure of the craft but it was all about the scenery - the flight flew first up the river to the bottom face of the glacier where we encouraged to laugh at all the people who had hiked and bussed there as that's all they would see of the glacier, then up and follow alternate sides of the glacier until we went up and over the starting edge of the glacier and over and around the massive snow field on the side of the mountain that feeds it - a quick glacier lesson before heading about a third of the way back down and landing on the glacier for a 40 minute hike. The helo took took the previous hikers off and we had 40 minutes of unnerving noises, groans, squirts, sloshes and crashes as you slowly realised you were standing on something that was continually moving and almost a living thing. 40 minutes later and after watching a 40 ft column of ice topple over about a km further up the glacier and we're off back down thinking what could be better than that.

We discovered it a few days later in Te Anau - the gateway to the Shadowlands. There is a company there called Fjordland Helicopters who were the principal company contracted to do the dynamic air photography for the Lord of the Rings films, a lot of which was shot in the magnificent isolation of the Fjordlands on the southern edge of the South Island - it is also called the shadowlands as in the winter the sun doesn't rise high enough to light up the lower parts of the fjords and gorges. As told to us Fjordland Helicopters were one of only two or three companies that as well as having free reign to fly almost anywhere over the shadowlands were also allowed to land too. On nearing the end of filming of LOTR the pilots and cinematographers hatched a plan to put together some footage to make a short movie showcasing the beauty of the Shadowlands - the result is an amazing little 32 minute movie called Ata Whenua (Shadowland).

We hadn't seen the film when we went up and we had paid for (IIRC) a 90 minute flight around some of 'the best bits' - the company do some exact packages but we didn't have a clue what we wanted, it was a quiet day with just my wife and I as passengers and the Pilot seemed chilled with taking the lead on what to see and do. The result, if anyone has seen it, was some of the best bits of Ata Whenua, including the deer spotting, the mountain top skimming, the ride across the mountain top pool and over the edge and down into the abyss, and also the almost 90 degree right turn, level, then 90 degree left turn then trough a narrow gap into a hidden fjord.

It was truly astonishing and testament to the pilots skill and local knowledge, and New Zealand itself that I remember so much of it to this day. Whenever I watch LOTR I do bore people by saying - most of this is not CGI, it is just New Zealand. Towards the end of the flight he asked if he should land somewhere for us to take some pictures - I wrongly assumed it would a small flat field somewhere low nearby - nope - it was a rocky outcrop about 20-25ft across and he did warn us before we got out to watch out footing as it was 'about a 1500/2000ft drop almost sheer into the water'.

My question, if I haven't bored you Siko, is, have you ever taken any helicopter flights for fun/pleasure or flown yourself any sight-seeing, scenic, truly rememorable flights like the NZ jaunt I described?

I did want to go up again with my wife and daughter a few years ago in Tenerife to see the volcanos and ancient calderas but the week before we went there was a sight seeing helicopter crash somewhere in the world and it set my spider senses on full tingle. We didn't do it that time but I think will return and go for it.

One last question if you don't mind, is there anywhere in the world that you personally would not get in a helicopter for safety reasons - whether through your own experience or anecdotal evidence?

Edited by McGee_22 on Sunday 15th January 23:09

Ityre

43 posts

128 months

Sunday 15th January 2023
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Hi Siko, thanks for posting so much on this topic, sorry to read about your recent news,I hope you get the all clear with the February scan coming up , very best of luck with that

Mabbs9

1,072 posts

217 months

Monday 16th January 2023
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Morning Siko, may I also wish you a speedy recovery and return to the skies.

I too have had friends lose their Class 1 during cancer treatment and all have returned. Most quite quickly. One that took a while was after a brain tumour but he did make it back too.

Good luck to you!

Mabbs

Siko

Original Poster:

1,976 posts

241 months

Monday 16th January 2023
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Thanks again for all the nice comments and great to hear more good news about friends getting their licence back...there is hope assuming this horrible illness has gone (touch wood!).

Great post McGee and I won't quotepost you but thanks for taking the time to write that out, I really enjoyed reading it and I am sure others will have too. Your story about the Lynx made me smile as it is one of the few helicopters that can do "aerobatics" without instantly destructing biggrin so I have no doubt your pilot did exactly that. I've never got quite that far myself but even in a Puma you could (allegedly - not me!) do the same.

To answer your question I have never taken a pleasure flight as a passenger, although I have of course done a few as a pilot smile I would personally be very careful about a pleasure flight in a third world country which might not have the same standards as a western one, that said there are plenty of accidents in the US and recently in Australia too, so if your time's up it doesn't make much difference if you have a well-educated Yank/Brit on the sticks or a self-taught local from a third world country!

Of all the nice flights I have done in the military none really sticks out that much TBH, other than flying through the London Helilanes on a glorious sunny friday evening with the M25 at a standstill biggrin The one I'd probably think of is when I was flying out of the Shetlands and it was actually on an airtest. There is a manual for airtesting and it is very specific, eg do this at this speed, select this button and make your speed x etc. There is only one airtest item that has no specific requirement and it is a handling check - basically it's go and fly the aircraft and check it all is normal. The engineers asked me to do a 30 minute handling check one day which is "here's the aircraft, go fly it legally where the hell you want, do what you want and don't crash it, be back in 30 mins for a brew".

We used to love those flights and I went off one day around the northern part of Shetland and just went sightseeing with no pressure. I found this deserted beach, near a derelict village which was fascinating in itself and the beach was covered in absolutely huge stickmen drawn in the sand in all sorts of poses. We never flew over that part of the Island, in fact almost nobody did and whoever did it must have known nobody would ever see it before the tide washed it away....it was beautiful and a work of art which must have been almost impossible to see properly from the ground. Anyway we left there and continued our little tour finding another glorious deserted beach, like a sandbar, which was covered in hundreds and hundreds of seals who all rushed into the water as we approached in a massive throng, then as we rounded a headland on the North-west of the island there was a gushing torrent coming out of a cliff hundreds of feet up. The wind from the North was so strong that as it hit the cliff, it went vertically upwards and stopped the torrent falling to earth. I have never seen anything like it before, but all the water was blown vertically straight up into the sky like a hosepipe.

Final boring story and it wasn't me but my gran smile she went abroad for the first time in her life at age 85 on her own to visit my brother in NZ. They booked a tour onto Fox Glacier for Day 1 and the pilot landed them all there and departed for a while. At which point with the helicopter disappearing she just keeled over flat on her face into the snow and my brother assumed she was dead and wondered what the hell to do next. Luckily she had just passed out, living another 5 years afterwards, but that was also her first helicopter flight too - maybe it was all a bit exciting for her wink

Edited by Siko on Monday 16th January 10:45


Edited by Siko on Monday 16th January 10:46

McGee_22

6,654 posts

178 months

Monday 16th January 2023
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Thanks Siko - maybe I'll book that Tenerife flight the nice time we get out there - YOLO and all that.

When you get your licence back try and head to the South Island of New Zealand - the scenery is genuinely Gods vast playground.

A nice place to park there...



...but he did say it was a long way down...



From my first flight in a helo to my most recent I have always been in awe of the Pilot skill involved - and as an engineer just a bit afraid of the physics involved to keep everything oily spinning and 'up'.

Two last short RN Pilot dits - when I was based in Faslane it was not unusual to spot a Sea King being flown underneath the Erskine bridge - there is probably oodles of space but it looks good nonetheless.

Lastly I went to Duxford quite a few years ago for an airshow - it must have been a while back as there were Harriers on static and flying displays. Anyway the thing that struck me was while every single aircraft was roped off with a good 4 or 5m distance to the crowd, the crew standing behind the ropes and mostly aloof standing next to the aircraft or not there at all. There at the end of the line though was a FAA Merlin with kids and geeks climbing all over it - most grown ups were respectfully poking their heads in or standing a bit back.

The kids were everywhere, in the seats, playing with switches, generally having a whale of a time. In a quiet moment I spoke to the crew and pointed out the difference to every other display - they explained they'd had a heavy night in the Messes so couldn't be bothered to fall out with anyone and what was the worst they could do - it all had to be checked pre-flight anyway and 'as long as the little sods don't take stuff for ebay'.




dukeboy749r

2,538 posts

209 months

Thursday 19th January 2023
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Ityre said:
Hi Siko, thanks for posting so much on this topic, sorry to read about your recent news,I hope you get the all clear with the February scan coming up , very best of luck with that
This!

Plus, what is the pyramidal little 'toggle' device that I have seen on the top of the control stick (not cyclic) in a Lynx?

Wishing you the very best!