Bill's boating paradox...

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Bill

Original Poster:

52,471 posts

254 months

Friday 13th May 2022
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Simpo Two said:
But that's one week a year and has to be booked in advance. You can go on a boat whenever you like, at any time. Furthermore a boat is an asset you can sell if you have to, but money spent on two tickets to Malaga and a cheap hotel is money gone...
True, but I'm wondering how much of the boat demand was driven by people with spare cash and time who now have less of both.

Simpo Two

85,147 posts

264 months

Friday 13th May 2022
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Bill said:
Simpo Two said:
But that's one week a year and has to be booked in advance. You can go on a boat whenever you like, at any time. Furthermore a boat is an asset you can sell if you have to, but money spent on two tickets to Malaga and a cheap hotel is money gone...
True, but I'm wondering how much of the boat demand was driven by people with spare cash and time who now have less of both.
Lots. Which means when they sell their boats to go and wait in an airport queue, the market will be flooded and you can get a good deal smile

Bill

Original Poster:

52,471 posts

254 months

Friday 13th May 2022
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There's a flip side - buying soon and getting caught when the bubble bursts.

Sorry, not very man maths I know. biggrin

Arnold Cunningham

3,758 posts

252 months

Friday 13th May 2022
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Man maths would be persuading yourself it's cheaper in the long run to have 2 boats.

Simpo Two

85,147 posts

264 months

Friday 13th May 2022
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Arnold Cunningham said:
Man maths would be persuading yourself it's cheaper in the long run to have 2 boats.
I can do it without man maths. Bill can wait a year or two in the hope prices will fall, but even if they do, he's lost a year or two of boating pleasure - and possibly also lost several £K of his valuable budget eating greasy food in Spain for nothing but a few snaps of a palm tree and food poisoning smile

OutInTheShed

7,354 posts

25 months

Friday 13th May 2022
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Covid has driven up demand for boats you can stay for at least a weekend on.
I have noticed this over the last couple of years with sailing boats.
More people in anchorages overnight that a few years ago.
But of course less people have been sailing over to France.

Brexit has also cut the supply of used boats from euroland,
But also filled marinas with boats previously in europe which brits have brought back.

Looking forwards, I think inflation will keep values high, but as ever, the boats in good nick will be easiest to sell and some will either lose value or be hard to shift.

I paid a bit over £10k for a small sailing cruiser, I'm not concerned about the capital I may lose in that, over the next 5 years what it costs is just what I'd lose if I bought a nice car instead. I'm aiming to keep running costs to about £2k a year, of which I doubt £200 will be diesel, but sails are not cheap!

Arnold Cunningham

3,758 posts

252 months

Friday 13th May 2022
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
I can do it without man maths. Bill can wait a year or two in the hope prices will fall, but even if they do, he's lost a year or two of boating pleasure - and possibly also lost several £K of his valuable budget eating greasy food in Spain for nothing but a few snaps of a palm tree and food poisoning smile
Yeah. Buying a boat is made with th heart, not the mind.
Nothing beats a good day out on the water.

pequod

8,950 posts

137 months

Friday 13th May 2022
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Evening all.

Has Bill viewed any of the options proffered yet?

The joy of boating with a family of young teenagers is a limited experience, so if not now, then when?

Forget the original meagre budget, as waiting to afford what is the right boat, right now, is a fleeting moment in a lifetime, and will never be repeated!

Time and tide.... etc.

PQ


Simpo Two

85,147 posts

264 months

Friday 13th May 2022
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pequod said:
Forget the original meagre budget, as waiting to afford what is the right boat, right now, is a fleeting moment in a lifetime, and will never be repeated!

Time and tide.... etc.
A friend of mine has missed out on at least two boats because he was 'going to look at it at the weekend' - but by the weekend, it had sold. People don't realise how fast you have to move to get the right boat when it appears. But you have to do your research first to know what the right boat is and avoid mistakes.

OutInTheShed

7,354 posts

25 months

Friday 13th May 2022
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Badda said:
Exactly.

The biggest mistake people make when entering the boating world is not going in hard. Tentative, budget purchases will lead to regret!!
Not sure that's often the case.

I've seen a few people buy too big a boat from the start, and I've known people regret upgrades, selling an expensive boat after a few years because they're not using it enough and wishing they'd kept its more modest predecessor.

There's a whole menu of boating activity available, different boats enable different activity, or do some activity better, faster, in more weather, with more or less people etc etc.
No boat is ideal for everything, you've got to prioritise what you want to do and be realistic about how much of various things you will do.

I could have bought a bigger boat which would have been better able to go to France with more people on board. But I'm unlikely to do that more than once a year, and sometimes I can blag a ride on someone else's boat.
I decided to get something which does 90% of what I want quite well, which I think I will get reasonable use out of at a reasonable cost. A smaller boat is cheaper to run, easier to find places to moor up, easier to handle shorthanded etc.

What IMHO is more likely to lead to regret is buying a cheap example of your xyz28, which will cost more in maintenance, keep you busy working on it instead of sailing it and still be a tatty old boat when it's time to sell. Buying the best example of your chosen model usually works out better.

But you have to take th plunge at some point, you can't wait for the ideal boat to be for sale.

pequod

8,950 posts

137 months

Friday 13th May 2022
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Simpo Two said:
pequod said:
Forget the original meagre budget, as waiting to afford what is the right boat, right now, is a fleeting moment in a lifetime, and will never be repeated!

Time and tide.... etc.
A friend of mine has missed out on at least two boats because he was 'going to look at it at the weekend' - but by the weekend, it had sold. People don't realise how fast you have to move to get the right boat when it appears. But you have to do your research first to know what the right boat is and avoid mistakes.
So, so true Simpo.

Folk believe, time and again, that a 'bargain' will appear on their doorstep which I've rarely seen. Well found boats, which are rarely a bargain, need tracking down and securing without a doubt, pdq if not before!

Asking prices of all used boats have soared in recent years, but may not be a true reflection of the final price paid.

From my experience, I bought a boat (ex VAT) during the pandemic and the owner was simply 'taking the piss' with the asking price as he thought it was an opportunity, yet, despite being a very desirable yacht, he was eventually persuaded to see sense...

Still paid too much, but that's the reality of obtaining something special.

OutInTheShed

7,354 posts

25 months

Friday 13th May 2022
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There's also an element of 'being in the right place'.

When I was looking, the boats I was interested in seemed to be in Scotland, Wales or the North East.
Not trivial delivery trips in Autumn, and you can rack up some bills just going to look.
Road haulage of boats can be costly. But sometimes worth it.

I was beginning to consider crackpot schemes of keeping the boat in Scotland for most of the first year, visiting some islands and all that.
An OK boat turned up locally, so I bought it.
Only down side is I keep meeting the previous owner, let's just say our ideas about what h did to the boat don't align.

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Friday 13th May 2022
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Simpo Two said:
pequod said:
Forget the original meagre budget, as waiting to afford what is the right boat, right now, is a fleeting moment in a lifetime, and will never be repeated!

Time and tide.... etc.
A friend of mine has missed out on at least two boats because he was 'going to look at it at the weekend' - but by the weekend, it had sold. People don't realise how fast you have to move to get the right boat when it appears. But you have to do your research first to know what the right boat is and avoid mistakes.
Good examples of popular boats will often sell quickly either between friends, sailing club members or owners associations and never even get to the open market.

We missed out on three that fitted our criteria and on our shortlist because they'd sold between us hearing about them and having the time to view. The one we eventually ended up buying had somebody else waiting to look at it if we'd not agreed a deal on the spot.

Simpo Two

85,147 posts

264 months

Friday 13th May 2022
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Jaguar steve said:
We missed out on three that fitted our criteria and on our shortlist because they'd sold between us hearing about them and having the time to view. The one we eventually ended up buying had somebody else waiting to look at it if we'd not agreed a deal on the spot.
In 2010 when hunting for my first boat I was on my way to a marina to view a likely candidate (a small Freeman). About halfway there they rang to say they'd just taken a deposit. Arse! Turned round and went home again. But a week later I was browsing around again and the boat was still on the website.... were they just slow to take it down, or...? I rang to check. The buyer had been relying on an inheritance, but it wasn't as much as he thought so he pulled out. "Don't touch it I'm on my way!" BUT I could only commit instantly with confidence because I'd already viewed a dozen others and so knew this was the best.

Audis5b9

925 posts

71 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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Badda said:
pequod said:
Have we considered a Jeanneau Leader 705, fitted with an inboard VP KAD 32, yet?

Very popular and plentiful, albeit many are petrol engined V6's which I would personally avoid, but the diesel KAD 32 is well suited to longer adventures and economical at moderate throttle.

This one is sold but a reference point for the OP....

https://www.rightboat.com/us/boats-for-sale/jeanne...
That was 805 money a couple of years back!
That 705 is my old boat... purchased for £14k in 2020, sold for £23.5k later that year... now £35k!


CubanPete

3,630 posts

187 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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Arnold Cunningham said:
Man maths would be persuading yourself it's cheaper in the long run to have 2 boats.
For this it will almost certainly be cheaper to have two boats.

Towing a ring or skier with something big enough to have a cabin and powerful enough to tow a skier will be expensive to buy and run

I would look at a 4-5m rib / dory for playing, and an 18ft+ with a diesel engined inboard for day trips and fishing etc.

You can use the little boat as the tender to a mooring too, which would be far cheaper than a marina.

HTH

Simpo Two

85,147 posts

264 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
quotequote all
CubanPete said:
For this it will almost certainly be cheaper to have two boats.
Two boats is all very well, but if one should break down then the poor man would be back to only one, which leaves no margin for error. Taking this into account I consider that a minimum of three boats should be the objective. Better still, if two boats are cheaper than one (economy of scale) then three boats will save even more.

pequod

8,950 posts

137 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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Audis5b9 said:
That 705 is my old boat... purchased for £14k in 2020, sold for £23.5k later that year... now £35k!
Interesting. Did you buy it needing work and sold it with the market going mad for such boats, or was there another reason you kept it for less than a year? Any opinion about the 705's suitability for the OP, ignoring the cost of buying one at the moment?

pequod

8,950 posts

137 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
CubanPete said:
For this it will almost certainly be cheaper to have two boats.
Two boats is all very well, but if one should break down then the poor man would be back to only one, which leaves no margin for error. Taking this into account I consider that a minimum of three boats should be the objective. Better still, if two boats are cheaper than one (economy of scale) then three boats will save even more.
A small flotilla of various size boats is the way to go and, at one time, I had five!
A SIB, RIB, Dory, flybridge cruiser, a sailboat and small inflatable kept onboard.

They all had their uses for different situations....

Audis5b9

925 posts

71 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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pequod said:
Interesting. Did you buy it needing work and sold it with the market going mad for such boats, or was there another reason you kept it for less than a year? Any opinion about the 705's suitability for the OP, ignoring the cost of buying one at the moment?
It needed a thorough engine service, sterndrive overhaul and lots of niggly bits (batteries, vhf antenna, light fittings, deep clean, etc etc).

We sold it as it was a little too small for our requirements, and I couldn't believe the prices boats were still fetching.

Didn't comprehend they were still on the up (I'm a yacht broker so thought I knew what was going on!!).

I'd be surprised if they achieved £35k, but its not been posted on soldboats so cannot verify the actual selling price.

With regards to OP's requirements, it ticks all the boxes, although the KAD32 is a little underpowered for water skiing IMO. We got 30+ knots with just two onboard, dropped down to 24knots max with 6 onboard.