Post amazingly cool pictures of aircraft (Volume 2)

[yellowjack]

Ayahuasca said:

The 1974 pre-crash photo shows a GR1 nose and tail. If only the engine was upgraded, is it a GR3?

Well that's the thing, really.

The RAF/Hawker Siddely (and it's successors) are probably the only authority on the matter. And it sounds to me like the reason for the re-designation is "significant internal technical changes" to the aircraft, requiring a host of different spare parts and quite possibly re-training of technical ground staff. The LRMTS is a retrofittable upgrade. Whether that upgrade could be carried out in-unit I don't know.

From a plane-spotter's view, though? Pointy nose = GR1/GR1A; Funny lens-thing in the nose = GR3.


In practical terms, a Harrier deployed to Belize to (potentially) fight the Guatemalans would be a low priority for radar warning systems on the fin and LRMTS. Neither system would have significantly improved the survivability of the Harrier in air engagements, and probably have had minimal effect on ground attack missions in a jungle environment. Bear in mind that the height of Guatemalan aircraft technology was (and still is) the Cessna A-37 Dragonfly, and in the early 1970s they were in the process of retiring the last of their P-51D Mustangs. Not sure what was in service when, exactly, but they also had Fouga CM.170 Magister (first flight 1952) and Lockheed T-33 Shooting Star (first flight 1948) serving in their air force. A "hot" war with the Guats was more likely to be up-close-and-personal gun engagements, than a fast jet war of missile lock and "Fox one"...

[Dr Jekyll]

So a Harrier was upgraded to GR3 but still looked like a GR1. Is that what the controversy is about?

[Eric Mc]

Seems to be. As Yellowjack points out, the most obvious external visual difference between the GR1 and the GR3 was the fitment of the laser nose to the GR3. There were internal differences too but these weren't obvious from the outside unless you knew the Harrier inside out.

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

yellowjack said:

From a plane-spotter's view, though? Pointy nose = GR1/GR1A; Funny lens-thing in the nose = GR3.

I always thought that to be the case, but from the References I have, the GR3 designation came in with fitment of the Pegasus 103 and its associated systems.

Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Friday 21st September 16:00

[Ayahuasca]

I remember the Harrier GR1/3 in Belize had 'Screaming Eagle' painted on the side. Would that have been an 'official' thing or something put on in theatre?

[yellowjack]

Ginetta G15 Girl]ellowjack said:

From a plane-spotter's view, though? Pointy nose = GR1/GR1A; Funny lens-thing in the nose = GR3.
[/quote}

I always thought that to be the case, but from the References I have, the GR3 designation came in with fitment of the Pegasus 103 and its associated systems.

I taught Recognition in the army at unit level, and that was the case in the books I used (out of date, obviously, as the GR3 was the only Harrier in service well before I joined).

I did always wonder about the intricacies of some of the differences between types though. I mean, we were only really going to see them screaming through the sky above us and "Harrier" or "friendly" would be enough to know. Unless of course you got to be an RE "Tin Kicker" in which case you'd get to see quite a few Harriers up close and personal. But "Tin Kicking" was a stty job, one I'm glad I never got posted to do...


...it was the same with AFV recognition. Various spacings of road wheels to determine if it were a T-55, T-64, or something else? You'd frequently get the class clown giving it "if it's shootin' at me, Corporal, I ain't sticking around to count feckin' roadwheels...". Quite frequently, after the 1991 Gulf War finished, we'd recover enemy vehicles that had been fitted with additional kit that disguised 'official' recognition features anyway.

I upset an officer once when we were "buzzed" by the Porton Down/Boscombe Down ETPS/RAE Hunter on an NBC exercise on Salisbury Plain. I was supposed to react as though we'd been subject to a chemical attack, but I said "It's OK Sir - it's one of ours!" when the vapour dye it was laying down drifted away in the wind away from us...

[Ayahuasca]

yellowjack said:

You'd frequently get the class clown giving it "if it's shootin' at me, Corporal, I ain't sticking around to count feckin' roadwheels...".

The clown seems rather sensible.

[AlexC1981]

Nice video of some Hawker Harts formation flying and practising strafing/bombing runs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIuQyKhSys4

No. 39 Squadron showing off their Hawker Harts and a bit of leg Not sure why as they are not in kilts.

[MartG]

[CanAm]

AlexC1981 said:

No. 39 Squadron showing off their Hawker Harts and a bit of leg Not sure why as they are not in kilts.

Surely you've heard the forces' expression "Get your knees brown!" ?

[MartG]

MBB Bo-115 - unsuccessful attack helicopter proposal based on the mechanical elements of the Bo-105

[Ayahuasca]

Looks like a Fisher-Price My First Attack Helicopter.

[FourWheelDrift]

Fat Cobra.

[mko9]

The AH-1 drivetrain comes from the UH-1 Huey. The USMC still operates both, and upgrades them together. Current incarnation is AH-1W and UH-1W.

[anonymous-user]

mko9 said:

The AH-1 drivetrain comes from the UH-1 Huey. The USMC still operates both, and upgrades them together. Current incarnation is AH-1W and UH-1W.

AH-1Z and UH-1Y?

[MartG]

https://twitter.com/DigitalGlobe/status/1045000645...

[MartG]

Su-24

[MartG]

Due to the wheel rim maker being a bit behind in orders, workers at North American came up with a unique solution to be able to move Mustangs off the assembly line and around the facility until the wheels were ready. Can you imagine the fun if they didn't follow the warning written on the side of the temporary wheel?

[LotusOmega375D]

Framed photograph in the pub adjacent to the Premier Inn at Thetford (near RAF Lakenheath). Oops.



This Lakenheath "F15" is actually an F16 from Spangdahlem, Germany.

[Eric Mc]

I wonder who did the framing and mounting?