Pub food - why is it frequently so bad?
Discussion
Sorry if this comes over as a fairly unstructured rant, but this is something I've been mulling over for quite a while.
I live in rural Dorset. Village pubs (with the exception of the top tier of restaurants-masquerading-as-pubs) seem to be really struggling.
My partner and I go out for a few lunches in pubs when we have time off, as a kind of recce for places that might be worth frequenting more often. I find it deeply frustrating how many miss the target on the food front.
Now, I'm not having a snobbish dig at the level at which bog-standard pubs pitch themselves, but at the way that (in my layman's view) they seem to fail on what should be quite an easy quest. I'm also not really talking about chain eating/managed pubs of the Harvester ilk, but the average tenanted village pub.
I'm sure I don't need to provide endless examples, but how often do you go in to a pub, read the menu and find it to be all the same s
t in all the other pubs, with not one vaguely quirky variant, and end up ordering gammon, or a steak, or pie of the day (which is rarely a pie)? Or go up and ask what soup of the day is, thinking "go on, surprise me", and it's vegetable?
But more to the point, how often do you order something that sounds quite promising, but due to some glaring failing of skill turns out to be st? Like the ginger treacle tart I ordered the other day, which would have been delicious warm, but was a bitter disappointment straight out of the fridge?
I'm quite friendly with my local landlady, and she talks a good talk about revamping her menu now and then, but when it happens, it's invariably a let down. The other week she was proudly announcing she was going to drop the chip-shop-a-like battered fish for something different. Yes, a breaded piece of fish instead...
We've been tossing this back and forth over the last few weeks and come to a few conclusions:
1. The difference in price between a good, individual, pub meal and a generic, badly delivered (usually brewery) pub meal is usually only 20% max.
2. Some customers genuinely don't seem to care, or more to the point don't want anything outside their very narrow comfort zone. We had a very poor pub meal recently and the couple at the next table were virtually swooning over theirs.
3. Pubs seem to think their clients want massive hot main courses all year, and the rest of the menu is an irritating adjunct to best be sourced ready made off the back of a Brakes lorry,
In conclusion again, this is emphatically not a snobbish dig at pub grub, which can be wonderful. But it seems like the difference between good and bad pub food is not a huge one in price but a huge one in effort and perception of what the customer might want, and I'm genuinely interested why some pubs do it well and some badly, because as a punter I just don't get it, when it usually seems to be fairly obvious what is wrong with the menu.
I anticipate the responses saying I'm wrong, but if I am, why aren't average pubs full of diners like the good ones?
I live in rural Dorset. Village pubs (with the exception of the top tier of restaurants-masquerading-as-pubs) seem to be really struggling.
My partner and I go out for a few lunches in pubs when we have time off, as a kind of recce for places that might be worth frequenting more often. I find it deeply frustrating how many miss the target on the food front.
Now, I'm not having a snobbish dig at the level at which bog-standard pubs pitch themselves, but at the way that (in my layman's view) they seem to fail on what should be quite an easy quest. I'm also not really talking about chain eating/managed pubs of the Harvester ilk, but the average tenanted village pub.
I'm sure I don't need to provide endless examples, but how often do you go in to a pub, read the menu and find it to be all the same s
t in all the other pubs, with not one vaguely quirky variant, and end up ordering gammon, or a steak, or pie of the day (which is rarely a pie)? Or go up and ask what soup of the day is, thinking "go on, surprise me", and it's vegetable?But more to the point, how often do you order something that sounds quite promising, but due to some glaring failing of skill turns out to be s
t? Like the ginger treacle tart I ordered the other day, which would have been delicious warm, but was a bitter disappointment straight out of the fridge?I'm quite friendly with my local landlady, and she talks a good talk about revamping her menu now and then, but when it happens, it's invariably a let down. The other week she was proudly announcing she was going to drop the chip-shop-a-like battered fish for something different. Yes, a breaded piece of fish instead...
We've been tossing this back and forth over the last few weeks and come to a few conclusions:
1. The difference in price between a good, individual, pub meal and a generic, badly delivered (usually brewery) pub meal is usually only 20% max.
2. Some customers genuinely don't seem to care, or more to the point don't want anything outside their very narrow comfort zone. We had a very poor pub meal recently and the couple at the next table were virtually swooning over theirs.
3. Pubs seem to think their clients want massive hot main courses all year, and the rest of the menu is an irritating adjunct to best be sourced ready made off the back of a Brakes lorry,
In conclusion again, this is emphatically not a snobbish dig at pub grub, which can be wonderful. But it seems like the difference between good and bad pub food is not a huge one in price but a huge one in effort and perception of what the customer might want, and I'm genuinely interested why some pubs do it well and some badly, because as a punter I just don't get it, when it usually seems to be fairly obvious what is wrong with the menu.
I anticipate the responses saying I'm wrong, but if I am, why aren't average pubs full of diners like the good ones?
Fair point, but the other thing that seems baffling to me is that a lot of small pubs employ a chef full time to produce next to no food, and yet don't seem to be that keen to make them busier.
The other thing I've definitely noticed over the years is that resistance to making the menu a bit more interesting usually seems to come from the chef.
The other thing I've definitely noticed over the years is that resistance to making the menu a bit more interesting usually seems to come from the chef.
i drive past a pub every day, it has a poster outside. two main courses for £8 . they are not employing chefs. just people who can operate a microwave and plate up food.
i am sure people would pay a lot more for nicer food. i never eat out due to health problems , but i would always choose quality over cost.
i am sure people would pay a lot more for nicer food. i never eat out due to health problems , but i would always choose quality over cost.
Chef's salaries and working conditions.... Full Stop.
Split shifts, balancing of profits, limited allowance of straying from the corporate menu, laziness of management to make changes, cost of ingredients per cover, quality of support staff and second chefs / cooks. Add to that the expectations of value and cost to the customer and you'll find pressure to cut costs in all areas.
Who would want to be a chef in this day and age...?
Split shifts, balancing of profits, limited allowance of straying from the corporate menu, laziness of management to make changes, cost of ingredients per cover, quality of support staff and second chefs / cooks. Add to that the expectations of value and cost to the customer and you'll find pressure to cut costs in all areas.
Who would want to be a chef in this day and age...?
I think you are all being unrealistic.
Two main meals for say £9.00 makes them say £4.00 net profit, the poor tenant probably paying £700pw rent to the brewery.
You are not going to get top class Cordon bleu food are you?
If they used better ingredients and charged £30.00 customers would just go elsewhere.
Catch 22.
I personally think Harvester, Weatherspoon food is fine for what you pay.
Two main meals for say £9.00 makes them say £4.00 net profit, the poor tenant probably paying £700pw rent to the brewery.
You are not going to get top class Cordon bleu food are you?
If they used better ingredients and charged £30.00 customers would just go elsewhere.
Catch 22.
I personally think Harvester, Weatherspoon food is fine for what you pay.
The reason for most st pub food is because its all frozen.... not a lot will be fresh. The economics of fresh food, cooked by a chef, dont stack up anymore. Its all ordered frozen from Brakes etc. Same stuff in all the pubs!!
And most of these pubs dont employ a chef. They employ a poorly qualified cook. Big difference.
Quite simply pubs cant afford to do much fresh food at the price point punters want from a village pub. Its complete bks out there for pubs.... i know it is. I'm an Ex-landlord....
t pub food is because its all frozen.... not a lot will be fresh. The economics of fresh food, cooked by a chef, dont stack up anymore. Its all ordered frozen from Brakes etc. Same stuff in all the pubs!!And most of these pubs dont employ a chef. They employ a poorly qualified cook. Big difference.
Quite simply pubs cant afford to do much fresh food at the price point punters want from a village pub. Its complete b
ks out there for pubs.... i know it is. I'm an Ex-landlord.... .... in saying that above, the economics in some pubs ie rates, rents, staff cost, tied or not tied can make a huge difference and if the landlord can also make a difference, and the footfall is good, you can have a great little village pub.
It's just that when a pub runs into financial problems, the kitchens dont get cleaned, the food quality goes down, the morale goes down, the lines arent cleaned and people stop comming to your pub....
We got out of ours before we got to that stage.... but my other business propped the pub up for too long.
It's just that when a pub runs into financial problems, the kitchens dont get cleaned, the food quality goes down, the morale goes down, the lines arent cleaned and people stop comming to your pub....
We got out of ours before we got to that stage.... but my other business propped the pub up for too long.
My regular Friday pub dinner in Tooting (Antelope if you are in the locale) is around £30+ per head (3 courses + drink) and is flipping excellent - hence the regular visit. They are big enough to afford a chef and the drinks are more expensive than others the surrounding area. Harvesters, Wetherspoons etc. have huge economies of scale and a supply chain to get that Eggs Benedict down to a few quid but most pubs can't compete with proper eateries hence the rubbish food / simple snacks / Sunday special when they can get the numbers in.
Worked as Barman in my then local years ago and the food was great. Just Very Good Home-style grub. Bangers and Mash with sausages from the Butcher opposite, as was all the meat! I used to have a full English breakfast at 11.30am every Saturday before running 2 bars for the afternoon shift and it was brilliant!
New landlord sacked the cook, (she hated being called chef), got his wife to cook and it went downhill immediately, got the supplies from Costco or similar to save money and people stopped eating there.
Buy quality ingredients, produce good food and people don't mind paying a couple of quid more! False Economy but the big breweries always want costs down.
My local had a new landlord every 12 - 18 months. Dead on a weekend now!!
New landlord sacked the cook, (she hated being called chef), got his wife to cook and it went downhill immediately, got the supplies from Costco or similar to save money and people stopped eating there.
Buy quality ingredients, produce good food and people don't mind paying a couple of quid more! False Economy but the big breweries always want costs down.
My local had a new landlord every 12 - 18 months. Dead on a weekend now!!
I have two locals. At one, most mains are about £9 and pretty good, but not fancy, food. Belly pork, mash, veg and gravy is £8.95, with portions that could feed 2. The other one is a nicer place, but generally you're looking at about £4 more on a smaller main and I wouldn't say it's any better, just a bit better presentation.
What I've fed up with are Sunday carveries. I have enough roasts around the Christmas period that I generally don't want one until about March and in summer, I really don't want to go and have a huge roast at lunchtime, then go to the beach, but so many pubs seem to only offer a roast on Sunday.
What I've fed up with are Sunday carveries. I have enough roasts around the Christmas period that I generally don't want one until about March and in summer, I really don't want to go and have a huge roast at lunchtime, then go to the beach, but so many pubs seem to only offer a roast on Sunday.
Hoofy said:
I'd rather a pub just served normal food. If I want interesting stuff, I'd eat in a restaurant not a pub.
I know what you mean, but how many interesting restaurants are there these days?The only ones I can think of local to me are chains, or the ubiquitous Indian, Chinese and Thai. The interesting places to eat that are using fresh ingredients are the pubs and, as the OP says, they tend to be a bit of a lucky dip until you've tried them all.
I agree with Wacky Racer, nothing wrong with the chain pubs as long as the price is ok, although I was a bit disappointed by 'Spoons last time I ate there, could have been an off day.
In a pub I'm unfamiliar with I'll stick to the classics, ham egg and chips, sausage and mash etc. Difficult to screw these up but some do manage it!
When I'm tempted to have something more exotic sounding I'm often disappointed. Trouble is too many places think their "gastro" but haven't a clue. A true gastropub is a wonderful thing but wouldn't want it as my local.
When I'm tempted to have something more exotic sounding I'm often disappointed. Trouble is too many places think their "gastro" but haven't a clue. A true gastropub is a wonderful thing but wouldn't want it as my local.
Hoofy said:
I'd rather a pub just served normal food. If I want interesting stuff, I'd eat in a restaurant not a pub.
Bring back proper pub food.
Cheese ploughman's
Pork pie Ploughman's
Scotch eggs
all with locally sourced ingredients
etc etc.
If I want a proper meal then ill go to a restaurant.
That said a friend of mine owns a pub and he has a team of thai chef operating out of his kitchens. he charges them a small retainer and then gets a commission on whatever they sell.
So the food is different being Thai and much better quality than a normal chain pub and not too expensive either as the chefs don't have to pay rent etc
Frankthered said:
Hoofy said:
I'd rather a pub just served normal food. If I want interesting stuff, I'd eat in a restaurant not a pub.
I know what you mean, but how many interesting restaurants are there these days?The only ones I can think of local to me are chains, or the ubiquitous Indian, Chinese and Thai. The interesting places to eat that are using fresh ingredients are the pubs and, as the OP says, they tend to be a bit of a lucky dip until you've tried them all.
I agree with Wacky Racer, nothing wrong with the chain pubs as long as the price is ok, although I was a bit disappointed by 'Spoons last time I ate there, could have been an off day.
head pub serving 3cm large quail's egg scotch eggs balanced carefully on triangular pieces of slate and charging £8?Wetherspoons - that sounds disappointing; it's standard menu stuff but should be fine unless you're expecting celeb chef stuff.
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