Poverty in Oldham

[skwdenyer]

For those with a knowledge of post-industrial towns, the title's perhaps not a surprise.

However, wondering if anyone has seen this and what they think about it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-43507747/mummy-s-n...

Is it an unenlightened view, or have things gone very wrong?

[Andehh]

I wish they'd reveal the breakdown of the numbers.

£1100/month income, but struggling to feed the family? That doesn't seem like foods poverty levels? What am I missing?

[Fartomatic5000]

Andehh said:

I wish they'd reveal the breakdown of the numbers.

£1100/month income, but struggling to feed the family? That doesn't seem like foods poverty levels? What am I missing?

They mentioned debts amongst the outgoings.

I do have a problem feeling sympathy for people who put themselves in a certain position because of poor choices they have made. Four kids and can't afford to feed them. It's a choice.

[jjlynn27]

Grim. 21st century.



Not sure what the solution is.

[98elise]

Andehh said:

I wish they'd reveal the breakdown of the numbers.

£1100/month income, but struggling to feed the family? That doesn't seem like foods poverty levels? What am I missing?

It says after rent, debts etc she has £13 per day. You could easily feed a person for a couple of pounds a day, but that leaves her £3 for everything else.

[crankedup]

When a CEO of a building Company can receive a bonus payment of £110 million and his co worker Board of directors receive life changing sums of money in a bonus payment, I cannot help but think something has gone very wrong in the values we consider important.

In my opinion, our taxes are being wasted when we need to use them as a top up to low wages from employers.
Difficult to comment upon the examples used in the film clip, to understand the true situation only being in the life that these people find themselves. However, for decades the Northern sectors of England seem to have been unfairly disadvantaged through lack of central Governments forward thinking in terms of infrastructure and industry.

[crankedup]

Fartomatic5000 said:

Andehh said:

I wish they'd reveal the breakdown of the numbers.

£1100/month income, but struggling to feed the family? That doesn't seem like foods poverty levels? What am I missing?

They mentioned debts amongst the outgoings.

I do have a problem feeling sympathy for people who put themselves in a certain position because of poor choices they have made. Four kids and can't afford to feed them. It's a choice.

We know nothing about the people involved, perhaps they have built up debt paying for essentials? Poor money management through poor education? Lack of opportunity in life chances?
I cannot imagine that people enjoy living life in the situation they find themselves in.

[sidicks]

crankedup said:

When a CEO of a building Company can receive a bonus payment of £110 million and his co worker Board of directors receive life changing sums of money in a bonus payment, I cannot help but think something has gone very wrong in the values we consider important.

In my opinion, our taxes are being wasted when we need to use them as a top up to low wages from employers.
Difficult to comment upon the examples used in the film clip, to understand the true situation only being in the life that these people find themselves. However, for decades the Northern sectors of England seem to have been unfairly disadvantaged through lack of central Governments forward thinking in terms of infrastructure and industry.

Maybe the taxes paid on those bonuses will support the planned economic development in those poorer areas.

[Wacky Racer]

Nothing to see here, there are "poor" families in every town in the UK.

Oldham is no better or worse than any other place, I live closeby and went to school in Oldham.

Nearby Saddleworth, four miles away is considered one of the most affluent places in the Manchester area

Families living in the depression of the early 1930's were really "poor" with virtually no handouts.

[nicanary]

98elise said:

Andehh said:

I wish they'd reveal the breakdown of the numbers.

£1100/month income, but struggling to feed the family? That doesn't seem like foods poverty levels? What am I missing?

It says after rent, debts etc she has £13 per day. You could easily feed a person for a couple of pounds a day, but that leaves her £3 for everything else.

I got the impression from the news item that the "£13 per day" was after paying all bills. Like you, I'm a bit confused as to why this would be inadequate. I'm not looking for sympathy, but I'm on a state pension and a small private pension which total about £11500 p.a.. I get a bit of housing benefit, but after all bills and contingencies I have about £60 left each week. That's more than enough to eat decent food and buy some wine/beer.

Surely poverty levels are when you can't even afford to eat? Has the "entitlement culture" of the UK gone too far?

Angry of Tunbridge Wells.

[98elise]

crankedup said:

When a CEO of a building Company can receive a bonus payment of £110 million and his co worker Board of directors receive life changing sums of money in a bonus payment, I cannot help but think something has gone very wrong in the values we consider important.

In my opinion, our taxes are being wasted when we need to use them as a top up to low wages from employers.
Difficult to comment upon the examples used in the film clip, to understand the true situation only being in the life that these people find themselves. However, for decades the Northern sectors of England seem to have been unfairly disadvantaged through lack of central Governments forward thinking in terms of infrastructure and industry.

That's a very unusual case, however 110m would generate 50m tax. That aside if we took the 110m and distributed it to the workers we would all get £2 each as a one off.

Very soon you will run out of rich people.

[sas62]

Its important to note that the news item was referring to relative poverty.

Immediately before they switched to the video, the newsreader made a one line throwaway remark that the number of people in absolute poverty had actually dropped.

I've never really understood why we use the measurement of relative poverty. So what if you early less than some average income. That just means that you can't keep up with the Jonses'.

Whats important is that in absolute terms you have sufficient income to survive.

In a similar vein, the comparison with Europe made above - there is little supporting information so It's impossible to tell where the figures come from. For example, it is possible it is using relative poverty and that it is the disparity in the UK that makes it look the poorest. Whereas in absolute terms the picture may be completely different.

[sidicks]

If people were less obsessed with the top earners relative to the bottom and instead focussed on the gap between the middle earners and the bottom, they’d have much more chance of improving the situation and making a genuine difference.

[bmwmike]

98elise said:

That's a very unusual case, however 110m would generate 50m tax. That aside if we took the 110m and distributed it to the workers we would all get £2 each as a one off.

Very soon you will run out of rich people.

Somehow I doubt that £50m in tax was paid on that bonus.

[JuniorD]

Fartomatic5000 said:

Andehh said:

I wish they'd reveal the breakdown of the numbers.

£1100/month income, but struggling to feed the family? That doesn't seem like foods poverty levels? What am I missing?

They mentioned debts amongst the outgoings.

I do have a problem feeling sympathy for people who put themselves in a certain position because of poor choices they have made. Four kids and can't afford to feed them. It's a choice.

It wasn't the children's choice though

[CoupeTeddy]

Not wishing to be harsh, but most of that money is in benefits and she has 4 children, I thought benefits were supposed to be a safety net not a lifestyle. Am I completely wrong?

[Murph7355]

jjlynn27 said:

Grim. 21st century.



Not sure what the solution is.

Despite 44yrs in the EU

Just yanking your chain JJ.

We have serious cultural issues in this country and IMO they started in the late 60s and took hold into the 70s.

Work ethics and sensible, individual planning went down the toilet. Large swathes started to look at the state to cure all their ills.

We had a brief respite, to an extent, in the late 70s and 80s but when Blair took power that went into reverse.

More than half the country is now in receipt of state handouts. That is not sustainable, but sadly means finding a way out is extremely difficult. Possibly impossible.

We aren't the only Western nation to be suffering this. The majority are to one degree or other and it will get worse.

[sas62]

CoupeTeddy said:

Not wishing to be harsh, but most of that money is in benefits and she has 4 children, I thought benefits were supposed to be a safety net not a lifestyle. Am I completely wrong?

It depends. Are you posting from the 1960's? If not, then I'm afraid you're wrong.

[sidicks]

bmwmike said:

Somehow I doubt that £50m in tax was paid on that bonus.

Is he not employed under PAYE - do you think HMRC are unaware of this bonus? How do you think it is taxed (or will be taxed when it is taken)?

(I agree that it is unlikely to be all taxed at 50%, but to suggest that there won’t be a massive amount of tax paid on it is unlikely to be true).

Edited by sidicks on Friday 23 March 10:46

[AB]

CoupeTeddy said:

Not wishing to be harsh, but most of that money is in benefits and she has 4 children, I thought benefits were supposed to be a safety net not a lifestyle. Am I completely wrong?

I'd question whether she should have 4 children. The poorest and those that take benefits as a lifestyle rather than a safety net breed the quickest. It's a recipe for disaster.