Raw Milk

Author
Discussion

Mr Gearchange

5,892 posts

205 months

Friday 9th November 2018
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mikal83 said:
you dont drink untreated water...……...you need to get a life
Oh but people do, because they are fking stupid.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/01/fear-tap-w...

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts...


cbmotorsport

3,065 posts

117 months

Friday 9th November 2018
quotequote all
We used to live opposite a dairy farmer in Derbyshire when I was a kid. I used to get sent over to the milking parlour every morning with a glass bottle. No one died.

Mr Gearchange

5,892 posts

205 months

Friday 9th November 2018
quotequote all
But personal anecdotes are not evidence of safety.

My Grandad worked in an Absestos factory and didn't develop mesothelioma.

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

254 months

Friday 9th November 2018
quotequote all
mikal83 said:
you dont drink untreated water...……...you need to get a life
My grandparents did when they farmed, along with "raw" milk. They had a bore hole to get their water, and my grandmother is still alive at 100 years old (grandfather passed on at 92).

ZedLeg

12,278 posts

107 months

Friday 9th November 2018
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Mr Gearchange said:
But personal anecdotes are not evidence of safety.

My Grandad worked in an Absestos factory and didn't develop mesothelioma.
that.

It's fine to eat or drink any untreated food if you can be sure of it's source. I wouldn't pick up a bottle of raw milk off a shelf because I don't know how long it's been there or where it came from. Just like I wouldn't drink water straight out of a stream because I don't know if there's a dead animal lying in it a bit up the hill.

tybo

2,284 posts

216 months

Friday 9th November 2018
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I get 6 litres every few days.

Beautiful.

captain_cynic

11,872 posts

94 months

Friday 9th November 2018
quotequote all
cbmotorsport said:
We used to live opposite a dairy farmer in Derbyshire when I was a kid. I used to get sent over to the milking parlour every morning with a glass bottle. No one died.
So those who have actually died... are what exactly.

You were lucky, considering that mortality rates were much higher back then I suspect more than a few people died from being sent over to the milking parlour every morning.

Also that doesn't mean the milk wasn't pasteurised. Pasteurising machines can be as small as a large stock pot (they effectively are a temperature controlled pot). Its not uncommon for a dairy to pasteurise their own milk, there's a dairy near me with a self serve machine providing pasteurised milk (because they don't want a law suit when someone dies from raw milk).

So maybe the reason you never got a listeria or E.Coli infection was because the milk you bought was already pasteurised.

In fact with the proliferation of pasteurisation machines in the first half of the 20th century, I'm willing to bet most of these story-tellers have been drinking pasteurised milk all their lives without knowing it.

Kermit power

28,634 posts

212 months

Friday 9th November 2018
quotequote all
ZedLeg said:
It's fine to eat or drink any untreated food if you can be sure of it's source. I wouldn't pick up a bottle of raw milk off a shelf because I don't know how long it's been there or where it came from. Just like I wouldn't drink water straight out of a stream because I don't know if there's a dead animal lying in it a bit up the hill.
I wouldn't pick up a bottle of raw milk off any old shelf, certainly. Would I pick one up off a French supermarket shelf when it has undergone microfiltration, has a sell by date on it, and is produced under regulations laid down and enforced by the French ministry of agriculture? Absolutely! Why not? It tastes much nicer!

If UK supermarkets were allowed to do the same thing, then I'd buy it here as well, but even if we could throw off that particular shackle of the nanny state, I doubt enough people would be willing to drink it (despite eating unpasteurised cheese without giving it a second thought) to make it commercially viable for the supermarkets.

As for drinking water straight out of a stream, I've done that too, but only in high mountains like the Alps after walking 100 yards or so downstream checking for anything dead. Not something I'd do in the stream running through our local park though! hehe

Batleyred

689 posts

118 months

Friday 9th November 2018
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I drink a lot of it, don't own dairy cows but it's available local to me, also drink our milking goats milk fresh every morning. Have done for years now and family for many more years,

Mr Gearchange

5,892 posts

205 months

Friday 9th November 2018
quotequote all
Kermit power said:
If UK supermarkets were allowed to do the same thing, then I'd buy it here as well, but even if we could throw off that particular shackle of the nanny state, I doubt enough people would be willing to drink it (despite eating unpasteurised cheese without giving it a second thought) to make it commercially viable for the supermarkets.
Comparing unpasteurised cheese to raw milk is a false equivalency.

Cheese is made by adding salt, bacteria and enzymes to the raw milk letting it ferment and create lactic acid which creates a hostile environment in which pathogens cannot survive.

Hard unpasteurised cheese has virtually zero risk, soft unpasteurised cheese aged less than 60 days does present some issues but its still a world away from drinking raw milk from a risk perspective.

FredClogs

14,041 posts

160 months

Friday 9th November 2018
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I drink it regularly, I love the taste and like it in my coffee (although it's a bit creamy for tea). My missus won't drink it though and has turned the kids against it so it's just the odd pint when I get the eggs.

I grew up drinking green top milk from our local farm, I'm not sure whether that was pasteurised or not but you don't seem to be able to get it these days.

sgrimshaw

7,311 posts

249 months

Friday 9th November 2018
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FredClogs said:
but you don't seem to be able to get it these days.
Plenty of places to buy it ...

https://westonaprice.london/uk-raw-milk-map/

There are strict controls to ensure the milk is safe, and the guidelines on who should not drink it would be best followed !

https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/raw-drinkin...


FredClogs

14,041 posts

160 months

Friday 9th November 2018
quotequote all
sgrimshaw said:
FredClogs said:
but you don't seem to be able to get it these days.
Plenty of places to buy it ...

https://westonaprice.london/uk-raw-milk-map/

There are strict controls to ensure the milk is safe, and the guidelines on who should not drink it would be best followed !

https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/raw-drinkin...
I wasn't sure if Green top milk was unpasteurised or not back in the 80s, but seems it was, in which case I drank it my whole childhood and never died.

I did st myself pretty regularly though.

guindilias

5,245 posts

119 months

Saturday 10th November 2018
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I don't fall into their "at risk" categories -

pregnant women
infants and small children
elderly people
people with compromised immune system such as cancer patients

So should be fine. I don't, but purely because I rarely drink milk anyway - maybe once a week in a cup of tea.
I did notice though, that the dairy farmer who lives down near my cabin and stores my boat has normal shop-bought semi-skimmed. No idea why, maybe it's just more convenient than milking a cow by hand - because all the rest of the stuff is robotic and goes straight into vats, then the tanker.

We used to get gold-top milk when we were kids, as a treat - delicious. But now everything is homogenised AND pasteurised, so you don't even get the cream floating at the top. Shame.

Kenny Powers

2,618 posts

126 months

Saturday 10th November 2018
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Good old FDA. Overseeing the health and nutrition of the sickest nation on the planet laugh

The Mad Monk

10,474 posts

116 months

Saturday 10th November 2018
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mikal83 said:
Came out of the cows, dad put it into a small churn, brought it home for breakfast. As did my extended family on my mother in laws family and she had 22 first cousins, 25% dairy farmers! None dead!
I know a bloke who drives without wearing a seat belt. He is still alive.

What's your point?

Ratski83

952 posts

72 months

Saturday 10th November 2018
quotequote all
There is a small stall in Borough Market that sells Raw Milk but I was down there couple of weekends ago and the lady said the farm had a recent tb scair or something and all the milk was been pasteurised until at least March.

I do like the taste of it though.

Kenny Powers

2,618 posts

126 months

Saturday 10th November 2018
quotequote all
The first thing people need to know when quoting the FDA, is that the FDA has absolutely no interest in health and nutrition. Their MO is to protect the interests of their industry partners.

It’s more than a little ironic suggesting that anyone pushing back against their advice is an idiot.

mikal83

5,340 posts

251 months

Saturday 10th November 2018
quotequote all
The Mad Monk said:
mikal83 said:
Came out of the cows, dad put it into a small churn, brought it home for breakfast. As did my extended family on my mother in laws family and she had 22 first cousins, 25% dairy farmers! None dead!
I know a bloke who drives without wearing a seat belt. He is still alive.

What's your point?
Grate post.

dazwalsh

6,095 posts

140 months

Saturday 10th November 2018
quotequote all
My grandad owned a huge dairy farm on the weat coast of Ireland, always a bucket of milk in the fridge straight from the cow, was very nice indeed, very rich and creamy. When i got back home from my visits, shop bought milk was never the same.