Best all round kitchen knife/knives/
Discussion
cbmotorsport said:
I wouldn't class a true japanese knife as an all round kitchen knife (as per the thread request). The edge angles are too fine, the maintenance required to keep them sharp is unreasonable and hit and miss, and the cost is generally prohibitive.
Great lookers, and very sharp initially, good to leave out on the chopping board and admire.
I've clearly been doing it all wrong by happily using Japanese knives as everyday knives for the past 15 years. Turns out it's far too hard to keep them sharp and I was just supposed to look at them Great lookers, and very sharp initially, good to leave out on the chopping board and admire.
Edge angles are something that the user is supposed to set for the intended use of the knife. If you want a little more robustness, use a more obtuse angle, and for more ultimate sharpness, a finer angle. Stick a 20 degree bevel on it, and the edge will be extremely strong.
In terms of edge maintenance, I know that I prefer spending a few minutes on the stones a few times a year over faffing around with a steel on a near daily basis, but everyone's different.
uncinqsix said:
cbmotorsport said:
I wouldn't class a true japanese knife as an all round kitchen knife (as per the thread request). The edge angles are too fine, the maintenance required to keep them sharp is unreasonable and hit and miss, and the cost is generally prohibitive.
Great lookers, and very sharp initially, good to leave out on the chopping board and admire.
I've clearly been doing it all wrong by happily using Japanese knives as everyday knives for the past 15 years. Turns out it's far too hard to keep them sharp and I was just supposed to look at them Great lookers, and very sharp initially, good to leave out on the chopping board and admire.
Edge angles are something that the user is supposed to set for the intended use of the knife. If you want a little more robustness, use a more obtuse angle, and for more ultimate sharpness, a finer angle. Stick a 20 degree bevel on it, and the edge will be extremely strong.
In terms of edge maintenance, I know that I prefer spending a few minutes on the stones a few times a year over faffing around with a steel on a near daily basis, but everyone's different.
I've worked in professional kitchens for years, I don't claim to be an expert but the only Japanese knives I see are ones owned by Chefs who are sponsored by the knife manufacturer. There are reasons for that.
RizzoTheRat said:
I recently bought a Santuko style knife and find myself using it for most jobs. ... You can pay anything from £20 to several hundred depending on manufacturer though.
Seconded. Or thirded. The 7 inch Procook santoku is the most used knife in our kitchen for nearly every general chopping job, and holds its edge very well. £20 from Amazon. Followed by some £5 plastic handled Victorinox paring and serrated knives (v v sharp, be careful!) The standard Sabatier knives I used by default for years, and were a bugger to keep properly sharp, are now used only for carving roasts.
cbmotorsport said:
No need to be quite so supercilious, your mileage obviously varies, which is fine. You talk about changing the edge angle of a knife, and using stones to sharpen them. This is a skill, and beyond many without a lot of practice. I therefore stand by my point and suggest that for an all round kitchen knife, it's best to avoid proper japanese blades. However, to keep you happy I will add the caveat that by all means use a Japanese knife, but ensure that you are skilled at sharpening using stones, and be prepared to sharpen a lot unless you're prepared to reprofile the edge to a more robust angle. I really didn't get the impression that the OP was after that sort of hassle. That lovely damascus finish on your show piece knife is very quickly ruined by a ham fisted and inexperienced attempt to use a whetstone.
I've worked in professional kitchens for years, I don't claim to be an expert but the only Japanese knives I see are ones owned by Chefs who are sponsored by the knife manufacturer. There are reasons for that.
To clarify what I said about bevel angles, you only need to go steeper if you're planning on giving the edge a bit of abuse. For normal use, the factory angle is fine. You don't have to use stones (something like a minosharp works just fine), and they don't need a lot of sharpening (less frequent than a typical European knife). I've worked in professional kitchens for years, I don't claim to be an expert but the only Japanese knives I see are ones owned by Chefs who are sponsored by the knife manufacturer. There are reasons for that.
Japanese blades really aren't nearly as impractical and high maintenance as some make out. All knives need to be maintained and kept sharp one way or another, and it's just a matter of choosing whatever regime works best for the user.
ac13 said:
Ta for the link, cheap as chips those, might have to get a couple of different types, nowt to lose at those prices. Could do with a cleaver when making pad kra pao gai, chopping up the chicken is a pain with a regular knife.
https://www.nipponkitchen.com/acatalog/Tojiro_Pro....
Some nice stuff here , not overly commercialised and therefore reasonably priced.
Some nice stuff here , not overly commercialised and therefore reasonably priced.
Some Guy said:
I have always admired the work that goes into artisan Japanese blades. Unfortunately, I have never required an exotic cooking/preparing knife as my culinary skills really do not cut (pun intended) the mustard and therefore any such purchase would be purely kitchen bling. 
After a quick browse on JCK's website, I have a Takeshi Saji steak knife on order - this is much more my level.
It should arrive before Christmas, but I suspect this could turn into one of those expensive hobbies. On the plus side, my rekindled admiration for Japanese workmanship may encourage me to be more adventurous in the kitchen. It may also mean I am on first name terms with the local A&E department.
Thanks Some Guy.
Whoozit said:
RizzoTheRat said:
I recently bought a Santuko style knife and find myself using it for most jobs. ... You can pay anything from £20 to several hundred depending on manufacturer though.
Seconded. Or thirded. The 7 inch Procook santoku is the most used knife in our kitchen for nearly every general chopping job, and holds its edge very well. £20 from Amazon. Followed by some £5 plastic handled Victorinox paring and serrated knives (v v sharp, be careful!) The standard Sabatier knives I used by default for years, and were a bugger to keep properly sharp, are now used only for carving roasts.
- thread bump*
https://www.souschef.co.uk/products/santoku-knife-...
... just looking for an all rounder really...
I was very lucky a few months back as this appeared on Amazon for £69
Damascus Kitchen Knife Set VG10 Steel 67 Layers Superior Damascus Steel Knives Blades from 10.00 cm to 20.00 cm Sharp Damascus Chef's Knife Japanese Style with Hammered Handles and Wood Block.
The small knife is scalpel sharp as they all are, and with a bit of care still is scary sharp. I made the mistake of putting my last set in the dishwasher and the wooden handles didn't do too well, so have opted for metal. These have a nice feel about them too.
Damascus Kitchen Knife Set VG10 Steel 67 Layers Superior Damascus Steel Knives Blades from 10.00 cm to 20.00 cm Sharp Damascus Chef's Knife Japanese Style with Hammered Handles and Wood Block.
The small knife is scalpel sharp as they all are, and with a bit of care still is scary sharp. I made the mistake of putting my last set in the dishwasher and the wooden handles didn't do too well, so have opted for metal. These have a nice feel about them too.
If you want knives which actually work, then you could try these. Of course you don't get the fancy engraving or see the layers of steel, or know that it has been made by a 102 year old Japanese craftsman, living in isolation on a tiny island, but you may be interested to know that most of the butchers working in Smithfields use them or something very similar.
https://www.nisbets.co.uk/hygiplas-colour-coded-ch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wijM-XI9rn8
https://www.nisbets.co.uk/hygiplas-colour-coded-ch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wijM-XI9rn8
andyA700 said:
If you want knives which actually work, then you could try these. Of course you don't get the fancy engraving or see the layers of steel, or know that it has been made by a 102 year old Japanese craftsman, living in isolation on a tiny island, but you may be interested to know that most of the butchers working in Smithfields use them or something very similar.
https://www.nisbets.co.uk/hygiplas-colour-coded-ch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wijM-XI9rn8
The reason they use Hygiplas is the steel is very (very) soft and can be sharpened very quickly and easily on the job. They do however blunt extremely quickly which is why you will see them being honed literally, every 10 minutes.https://www.nisbets.co.uk/hygiplas-colour-coded-ch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wijM-XI9rn8
If you drop them on their tip, they will actually bend and fold over.
Kai is my weapon of choice.
https://www.kai-europe.com/kitchen/index.php?lang=en
You can sometimes find them in TK's for around £20 a knife if you're lucky.
https://www.kai-europe.com/kitchen/index.php?lang=en
You can sometimes find them in TK's for around £20 a knife if you're lucky.
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