Coffee. Grinder and Cafetiere or Pods in a machine

[Bullet-Proof_Biscuit]

Get a B2C and add the milk separately, typically found in the fridge. This saves cleaning the milk thing daily.

[cqueen]

RobbieTheTruth said:

This is the correct answer really - if you're a real fan of the 'third wave' coffee movement - which basically means you like quality beans, lightly roasted to bring out that beans unique characteristic.

But - it's time consuming and expensive

It doesn't have to be. (*Edit* I don't buy 3rd wave coffee anymore and the setup below is not suitable for light roast speciality beans) I've owned the best of the best espresso machines in the past, but now I can't be arsed with all the faff and expense.

So now I have one of these delonghi machines which gets up to temperature in about 2 mins:



Coupled with a second hand commercial grinder, something like this...




I use sainsburys colombian beans and never have to fiddle or faff adjusting it. The only downside compared to a B2C is that you have to empty the puck each time.

summary, minimal fuss, excellent tasting coffee. I had previously owned a B2C machine but returned it as it just didn't taste that good. Still, each to their own. etc

Edited by cqueen on Friday 30th October 09:50

Edited by cqueen on Friday 30th October 12:04

[NewUsername]

Talk to me about grinders, why are they so expensive? What do they do that a £20 grinder cant?


Great answers thanks folks, i'm learning a lot

[nikaiyo2]

I guess it depends on how much you drink.

I have one of these https://www.johnlewis.com/lavazza-a-modo-mio-jolie... I have always like Lavazza coffee and for a couple of cups a day its perfect. IMHO its nicer coffee than Nespress, but I do tend to just drink black Americano.

Current one is 3 or 4 years old, as its so cheap I half expected it to last 12 months. I get that a full on coffee machine and ground beans are the

[bigandclever]

I’m a cheap hipster so have a manual grinder and a moka stovetop thing.

[J8 SVG]

I have one of these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-KG79-Electric-12...

And one of these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-Scultura-ECZ351B...

With good beans it makes as good an espresso as I've ever had

[cqueen]

NewUsername said:

Talk to me about grinders, why are they so expensive? What do they do that a £20 grinder cant?

What they do is very basic, but has more bearing on the final outcome than the espresso machine does. It's all about having evenly sized grinds, which I know sounds really wky, but it does make all the difference. For example a cheap grinder will get hot, causing the burrs to expand and changing the grind size. There's also how quickly it grinds, noise etc.

I guess the reason they are so expensive is because they are essentially a great big hunk of metal and a fair sized motor which are not sold to a mass market.

For even less fuss, go for an 'on demand' version so you don't have to bother with the flappy paddle. Some of the really fancy ones will even dose an exact amount you choose automatically, but that's defeating the point of a minimalist setup. But remember, cheap grinder = poor coffee.

[cqueen]

J8 SVG said:

I have one of these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-KG79-Electric-12...

And one of these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-Scultura-ECZ351B...

With good beans it makes as good an espresso as I've ever had

I started with exactly the same setup!

[hiccy18]

Cheapo Argos special for me, use it for herbs & spices too which is useful when I want to make garam masala I guess it takes a bit more manual input than the fancy ones but 30-40s grinding done in bursts over a minute gets a decent enough result for me.

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8208251?clickSR=sl...

[RobbieTheTruth]

cqueen said:

It doesn't have to be. (*Edit* I don't buy 3rd wave coffee anymore and the setup below is not suitable for light roast speciality beans) I've owned the best of the best espresso machines in the past, but now I can't be arsed with all the faff and expense.

So now I have one of these delonghi machines which gets up to temperature in about 2 mins:



Coupled with a second hand commercial grinder, something like this...




I use sainsburys colombian beans and never have to fiddle or faff adjusting it. The only downside compared to a B2C is that you have to empty the puck each time.

summary, minimal fuss, excellent tasting coffee. I had previously owned a B2C machine but returned it as it just didn't taste that good. Still, each to their own. etc

Edited by cqueen on Friday 30th October 09:50

Edited by cqueen on Friday 30th October 12:04

The grinder is decent.

That coffee machine lets it down a bit. It doesn't get to temperature in 2 mins, despite the light indicator going on. It can get the boiler to 90 degrees in 2 mins, like most, but you want the grouphead warm and insulated too.

The temperature is completely unstable on a machine like that. It will swing between 88-96 degrees - basically the heating element will kick in below 88 and shut out above 96. Gaggia Classics do this too, but you can add a PID which fixes the swing at 92 degrees exactly.

Also, the pressure is set at 15 bar, so the water hits the puck too quickly and the coffee will be underextracted. It does this, because it assumes you are going to use supermaket grinds, and a pressurized portafilter.

With all the above said, the grinder is more important - and you'll get a much better coffee using your set up than any Bean to Cup machine, and I'd be very pleasantly surprised to turn up at someones house and be offered a coffee using that set up!

You can pick up a used gaggia Classic with PID temperature mod, and pressure down to 9bar for around £200-£250, which would be a noticeable upgrade on taste, unless you're using Starbucks/Illy/Lavazza level beans, beans like that can't really be saved by any equipment.

[cqueen]

RobbieTheTruth said:

That coffee machine lets it down a bit. It doesn't get to temperature in 2 mins, despite the light indicator going on. It can get the boiler to 90 degrees in 2 mins, like most, but you want the grouphead warm and insulated too.

You're right and I agree that the delonghi is not a 'proper' espresso machine. However, you're kinda missing my point. This is a faff free setup comparable to a B2C machine, not intended for going on speciality coffee tasting journeys. I get up at 6:30am. I turn it on, flick the kettle on and feed the cats - it's now ready to make me a tasty coffee.

RobbieTheTruth said:

Gaggia Classics do this too, but you can add a PID which fixes the swing at 92 degrees exactly.

The classic also takes around 15-20mins to heat up and will required shots to be dialled in (significant money and time wasted).

RobbieTheTruth said:

With all the above said, the grinder is more important - and you'll get a much better coffee using your set up than any Bean to Cup machine, and I'd be very pleasantly surprised to turn up at someones house and be offered a coffee using that set up!

Yup, tasty, cheap and faff free! Anyhoo everyone's opinion on coffee differs, just my 2p

[Puggit]

NewUsername said:

hiccy18 said:

Don't like cafetieres, too much like hard work to clean. Hob boiler for me: cheap, little mess or fuss and great results. Something like:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bialetti-Moka-Express-Esp...

I'd forgotten about these. Good shout, so if I wanted a white coffee, i'd need some hot milk or some hot water and a dash of milk?

Another Moka user here - simple and pretty clean. Just bang the coffee grinds in to the green waste (not down the sink!) after each coffee.

The Moka makes an espresso, and like a coffee shop you use that as the basis to make a different type. So I add hot water and milk to make a long white coffee.

Much greener than any other solution in terms of waste, and you clean the Moka when you do the daily washing up.

[Ben Jk]

I agree with other posts. Get a B2C machine. I have just got a Krups one after years with various Nespresso machines after getting fed up of the prep/cleaning involved with my original espresso machine, but felt like a change and wanted to go back to fresh beans.

I got the below and very impressed with it. It not too big either.

https://www.krups.co.uk/ESPRESSO-MACHINES/BEAN-TO-...

[emperorburger]

RobbieTheTruth said:

Bean to Cup machines are convenience machines - fine for offices and better than pod machines. Basically, it's good for home, but you'd be appalled if a good coffee shop made you a coffee with one.

Very much this. The delonghi machines from first hand experience can make truly awful coffee from decent quality beans, so unless you are prepared to spend big on something like a Jura, which may then have a half decent grinder inside it, avoid bean to cup.

Get a decent grinder and maybe even consider a manual lever espresso maker.

The flair neo is excellent and not expensive, however it does require a little more commitment to the coffee making process.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08FKCV3WT/ref=cm_sw_r...

[rustyuk]

I thought I was being posh spending £30 on a grinder

I'd love to do a back to back taste test using a £30 Argos Special and a £750 Grinder. The expensive ones do look cool though.

[RobbieTheTruth]

rustyuk said:

I thought I was being posh spending £30 on a grinder

I'd love to do a back to back taste test using a £30 Argos Special and a £750 Grinder. The expensive ones do look cool though.

Difference is absolutely massive.

For filter, you'll get absolute clarity and you'll be able to identify very particular tasting notes. The one I'm drinking at the moment has tasting notes of bubble gum and candy floss.

For espresso, you won't be able to get a proper shot with a £30 grinder. A good guideline is 18g of ground coffee, yielding 36g of liquid, taking 30 seconds to extract at 9bar pressure.

The £30 grinder wouldn't grind anywhere near fine enough. The water would flow through the puck in about 8-10 seconds so you wouldn't extract all the flavour and oils from the coffee.

[RobbieTheTruth]

cqueen said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

That coffee machine lets it down a bit. It doesn't get to temperature in 2 mins, despite the light indicator going on. It can get the boiler to 90 degrees in 2 mins, like most, but you want the grouphead warm and insulated too.

You're right and I agree that the delonghi is not a 'proper' espresso machine. However, you're kinda missing my point. This is a faff free setup comparable to a B2C machine, not intended for going on speciality coffee tasting journeys. I get up at 6:30am. I turn it on, flick the kettle on and feed the cats - it's now ready to make me a tasty coffee.

RobbieTheTruth said:

Gaggia Classics do this too, but you can add a PID which fixes the swing at 92 degrees exactly.

The classic also takes around 15-20mins to heat up and will required shots to be dialled in (significant money and time wasted).

RobbieTheTruth said:

With all the above said, the grinder is more important - and you'll get a much better coffee using your set up than any Bean to Cup machine, and I'd be very pleasantly surprised to turn up at someones house and be offered a coffee using that set up!

Yup, tasty, cheap and faff free! Anyhoo everyone's opinion on coffee differs, just my 2p

I'd disagree on most of the above.

Dialing in the coffee means grinding in a way where the bean will produce about 36g of liquid using 18g of beans in 30 seconds. That should still be the aim with the Delonghi - howerer it iuses a pressurised portafilter with a tiny hole to artificially ensure it trickles through in 30 seconds, whatever happens. This can be used for the Gaggia.

The Gaggia heat up time is the same really - the light comes on after 4 mins indicating it's ready to use. It's not ideal though, same as the Delonghi - it's better to wait until the machine is warmed throughout and not just the boiler.

Basically, the Gaggia Classic at it's very worst (no dialing in, no waiting for proper heat) matches the Delonghi, but you have the option to improve it by a considerable distance.

[Ben Jk]

All this snobbery towards B2C.

Convenience is the key here. I’ve had all types of machines and also worked with the best in commercial environments too.

Whilst I enjoy experimenting with different bean roasts and dose and grind settings to get the optimum coffee I don’t want to be doing it on a daily basis and frankly haven’t got time. My new Krups B2C is bloody good and makes great coffee (steam arm is a bit st but I’ll hardly use it) and I consider myself a bit of a coffee snob with decent experience/knowledge.

[LeadFarmer]

I've got a Gagia Classic with iberital grinde as well as some cafetieres, but my favourite coffee in the morning is made with Instant coffee, sugar and hot milk.

[RobbieTheTruth]

Ben Jk said:

All this snobbery towards B2C.

Convenience is the key here. I’ve had all types of machines and also worked with the best in commercial environments too.

Whilst I enjoy experimenting with different bean roasts and dose and grind settings to get the optimum coffee I don’t want to be doing it on a daily basis and frankly haven’t got time. My new Krups B2C is bloody good and makes great coffee (steam arm is a bit st but I’ll hardly use it) and I consider myself a bit of a coffee snob with decent experience/knowledge.

No snobbery from me!

I have Nespresso, Bean to Cup and an Espresso Machine.

I often find myself using the Bean to Cup for convenience, and it's a decent coffee.

The Gaggia is a different level, but time consuming - especially for more than one drink at a time.