life contentment, chasing the money....
Discussion
I have a pretty decent life.
I am not a powerfully built company director, but I am not poor either. I have a nice house (at least that is what my wife an I think), we have decent cars (though mine is nearly 14 years old and hers is nearly 5), we go out plenty, have several holidays a year, even if they're just in the UK mainly, never really worry about money, have decent jobs that pay well enough for the area, but not massively paid. I guess comfortable is the word.
I cannot go out and just drop £25k on a car, but I can usually drop £10k.
We work 9-5:30, walk to work most days, so we are out of the house from 8:25am to 6pm usually during the week. We do not work weekends, except when she is on call, (which I will also be doing later this year) so we have a have a healthy work / life balance.
I often think though that I would like a better paid job with more responsibility, yadda, yadda, yadda. But then I think why? Sure I have to save for things, but that teaches me the value of money. I do not live to work, I work to live. So I find myself wondering what is the point of it? If I am content with the lot I have now, is there a real need to change? I'd have to start working either in London or another part of the country, which means more time away from home, more travel costs over the £0 I pretty much pay now, and I may not even get paid enough for it to make a difference. In my last job I was working 8:30am to 5pm, but would usually do over time, so I'd maybe get home around 8pm, sometimes 10pm and sometimes have to leave home between 4am and 6am to get to a site. I would often spend a week working away, be on call every 4 or 5 weeks. My work / life balance was stacked mainly in work. Sure I earned a fair bit of money when I took expenses into consideration, but without those I'd not be earning much more than I do now, and without the overtime I would be earning a lot less. Sure that job meant I quickly saved enough money for our house deposit, but my well being suffered during that time. I now feel a lot better and I earn similar to what I was on before after the over time. When I start doing the on call work I will pretty much be on the same wage.
So I tend to come to the conclusion of "so what if I have to wait 12 months for something when others can get it next week". I aren't out flogging myself to death anymore for work, I get to enjoy the fruits of my labour, have a nice working environment (the last one was almost toxic) and I am happy and content.
I know I am making the right choice by not chasing the money. I do net get stressed at work, I have a lot of autonomy as long as the work gets done and my work are very happy with what I do.
Anyone else ever felt like this? Did you decide to go down the rabbit hole or did you just stick and decide that happiness isn't necessarily when you get paid?
A bit rambly I guess.. Sorry. Not sorry
I am not a powerfully built company director, but I am not poor either. I have a nice house (at least that is what my wife an I think), we have decent cars (though mine is nearly 14 years old and hers is nearly 5), we go out plenty, have several holidays a year, even if they're just in the UK mainly, never really worry about money, have decent jobs that pay well enough for the area, but not massively paid. I guess comfortable is the word.
I cannot go out and just drop £25k on a car, but I can usually drop £10k.
We work 9-5:30, walk to work most days, so we are out of the house from 8:25am to 6pm usually during the week. We do not work weekends, except when she is on call, (which I will also be doing later this year) so we have a have a healthy work / life balance.
I often think though that I would like a better paid job with more responsibility, yadda, yadda, yadda. But then I think why? Sure I have to save for things, but that teaches me the value of money. I do not live to work, I work to live. So I find myself wondering what is the point of it? If I am content with the lot I have now, is there a real need to change? I'd have to start working either in London or another part of the country, which means more time away from home, more travel costs over the £0 I pretty much pay now, and I may not even get paid enough for it to make a difference. In my last job I was working 8:30am to 5pm, but would usually do over time, so I'd maybe get home around 8pm, sometimes 10pm and sometimes have to leave home between 4am and 6am to get to a site. I would often spend a week working away, be on call every 4 or 5 weeks. My work / life balance was stacked mainly in work. Sure I earned a fair bit of money when I took expenses into consideration, but without those I'd not be earning much more than I do now, and without the overtime I would be earning a lot less. Sure that job meant I quickly saved enough money for our house deposit, but my well being suffered during that time. I now feel a lot better and I earn similar to what I was on before after the over time. When I start doing the on call work I will pretty much be on the same wage.
So I tend to come to the conclusion of "so what if I have to wait 12 months for something when others can get it next week". I aren't out flogging myself to death anymore for work, I get to enjoy the fruits of my labour, have a nice working environment (the last one was almost toxic) and I am happy and content.
I know I am making the right choice by not chasing the money. I do net get stressed at work, I have a lot of autonomy as long as the work gets done and my work are very happy with what I do.
Anyone else ever felt like this? Did you decide to go down the rabbit hole or did you just stick and decide that happiness isn't necessarily when you get paid?
A bit rambly I guess.. Sorry. Not sorry
Nobody on their death bed looks back and measures the worth of their life based on how many cars they owned, how many bedrooms their biggest house had, or how much money they have in the bank.
I always think that if I'm fortunate enough to have a few quid (or the ability/opportunity to make a few quid) I'm going to enjoy it, but I wouldn't allow the pursuit of money or the pursuit of status get in the way of good relationships with those closest to me, or make me behave in a way that I would regret from the vantage point of the afore-mentioned death bed.
Remember all that stuff that you think is yours, isn't really, you're just borrowing it from the Universe
It'll all go back eventually....
I always think that if I'm fortunate enough to have a few quid (or the ability/opportunity to make a few quid) I'm going to enjoy it, but I wouldn't allow the pursuit of money or the pursuit of status get in the way of good relationships with those closest to me, or make me behave in a way that I would regret from the vantage point of the afore-mentioned death bed.
Remember all that stuff that you think is yours, isn't really, you're just borrowing it from the Universe
It'll all go back eventually.... Think the academic research typically shows £50-60k is the sweet-spot between money and stress for the average Joe. Below that level and there's too little cash. Above that level and there's too much stress.
Much depends on your personal engine, of course. People with high energy are not bothered by 100-hour weeks and juggling £1m income. People with low or mid energy just wanna do 9 to 5 and watch a bit of TV. Horses for courses.
Much depends on your personal engine, of course. People with high energy are not bothered by 100-hour weeks and juggling £1m income. People with low or mid energy just wanna do 9 to 5 and watch a bit of TV. Horses for courses.
Yipper said:
Think the academic research typically shows £50-60k is the sweet-spot between money and stress for the average Joe. Below that level and there's too little cash. Above that level and there's too much stress.
Much depends on your personal engine, of course. People with high energy are not bothered by 100-hour weeks and juggling £1m income. People with low or mid energy just wanna do 9 to 5 and watch a bit of TV. Horses for courses.
Could you forward on that academic research please...Much depends on your personal engine, of course. People with high energy are not bothered by 100-hour weeks and juggling £1m income. People with low or mid energy just wanna do 9 to 5 and watch a bit of TV. Horses for courses.
I too have wondered when enough is enough. I'm not currently there yet but then I'm 26 and just starting out. I should be pretty happy I have a nice house, wife, a son and 2 nice new cars but I'm simply not content yet.
I'm mostly driven by wanting to equal my father and make my mark on the company he has passed on to me. I like to think by the time I hit 35 I will achieved enough to feel that I can slow down a bit.
My wife has voiced concerns though that I will always want more. But I have this year for the first time as my son turned 2 last week set weeks and days aside were I will take time off to do things with my son. I have promised myself I won't be an absentee father.
I'm mostly driven by wanting to equal my father and make my mark on the company he has passed on to me. I like to think by the time I hit 35 I will achieved enough to feel that I can slow down a bit.
My wife has voiced concerns though that I will always want more. But I have this year for the first time as my son turned 2 last week set weeks and days aside were I will take time off to do things with my son. I have promised myself I won't be an absentee father.
I felt pretty much like that until we started a family - we always had money at the end of our month but neither of us was massively stressed by our job or put in 12-hour days - good result!
However, we've moved house (much bigger mortgage) and now have a family. I've had a decent promotion since then, but now feel very much 'stuck' in my career and at my (stressful-enough) level, arguably until the mortgage is paid off (>15 yrs). Not the end of the world (I mostly enjoy my job), but always in the back of my mind when I have a bad day or miss something kid-related because of work.
So if you are thinking of having kids, you may want to push the career and money bit now while you have the spare time and energy...give you more scope to take your foot off the gas later on.
However, we've moved house (much bigger mortgage) and now have a family. I've had a decent promotion since then, but now feel very much 'stuck' in my career and at my (stressful-enough) level, arguably until the mortgage is paid off (>15 yrs). Not the end of the world (I mostly enjoy my job), but always in the back of my mind when I have a bad day or miss something kid-related because of work.
So if you are thinking of having kids, you may want to push the career and money bit now while you have the spare time and energy...give you more scope to take your foot off the gas later on.
There is no right answer for everyone. Just for yourself.
I come from the hard-driving Adrenalin-seeking was of living and at 69 still work a lot. I love the variety , the excitement of driving change, the people I meet. Will not for a second wish I had slowed down when on my deathbed. Lived in seven countries. Have had the cars I wanted and driven them properly
Great relationship with my son who is entirely different from me but has built his own success.
I do recognize that there are many paths to your own life satisfaction and the world needs that. A world full of people like me would end up in a war I expect. Conversely if everyone relaxed completely we might starve.
I come from the hard-driving Adrenalin-seeking was of living and at 69 still work a lot. I love the variety , the excitement of driving change, the people I meet. Will not for a second wish I had slowed down when on my deathbed. Lived in seven countries. Have had the cars I wanted and driven them properly
Great relationship with my son who is entirely different from me but has built his own success.
I do recognize that there are many paths to your own life satisfaction and the world needs that. A world full of people like me would end up in a war I expect. Conversely if everyone relaxed completely we might starve.
thainy77 said:
Yipper said:
Think the academic research typically shows £50-60k is the sweet-spot between money and stress for the average Joe. Below that level and there's too little cash. Above that level and there's too much stress.
Much depends on your personal engine, of course. People with high energy are not bothered by 100-hour weeks and juggling £1m income. People with low or mid energy just wanna do 9 to 5 and watch a bit of TV. Horses for courses.
Could you forward on that academic research please...Much depends on your personal engine, of course. People with high energy are not bothered by 100-hour weeks and juggling £1m income. People with low or mid energy just wanna do 9 to 5 and watch a bit of TV. Horses for courses.
ntiz said:
I too have wondered when enough is enough. I'm not currently there yet but then I'm 26 and just starting out. I should be pretty happy I have a nice house, wife, a son and 2 nice new cars but I'm simply not content yet.
I'm mostly driven by wanting to equal my father and make my mark on the company he has passed on to me. I like to think by the time I hit 35 I will achieved enough to feel that I can slow down a bit.
My wife has voiced concerns though that I will always want more. But I have this year for the first time as my son turned 2 last week set weeks and days aside were I will take time off to do things with my son. I have promised myself I won't be an absentee father.
The danger is that if you measure yourself against other peoples accomplishments, thoughts or behaviours then you're essentially giving up control of your own contentment. I'm mostly driven by wanting to equal my father and make my mark on the company he has passed on to me. I like to think by the time I hit 35 I will achieved enough to feel that I can slow down a bit.
My wife has voiced concerns though that I will always want more. But I have this year for the first time as my son turned 2 last week set weeks and days aside were I will take time off to do things with my son. I have promised myself I won't be an absentee father.
I wouldn't say 08:30 - 18:00 everyday is a good work life balance; but I do agree with what you are saying, I went to night school for my degree and have just finished my masters which has helped me land the job I have had for the past 3 years, will be moving back to the U.K. this year getting a salary based on my current German salary (for which I am nicely overpaid), not direct comparison but more than I would have had.
We will return to North Wales so will be able to have a nice life, no stress, a couple of cars, sit back and enjoy life not grafting 70-80 hours a week, what's the point!
I work between 20-65 hours a week depending on travelling, etc, but rarely on a Friday unless I am out of Europe and my girlfriend doesn't work Fridays, so we usually have a 3 day weekend which is nice and I find helps balance our lifestyle a little better.
ETA: I would never normally agree with Yipper, but I do remember reading the same, will try and dig it out.
ETA2; http://www.pnas.org/content/107/38/16489.abstract (USA)
We will return to North Wales so will be able to have a nice life, no stress, a couple of cars, sit back and enjoy life
not grafting 70-80 hours a week, what's the point! I work between 20-65 hours a week depending on travelling, etc, but rarely on a Friday unless I am out of Europe and my girlfriend doesn't work Fridays, so we usually have a 3 day weekend which is nice and I find helps balance our lifestyle a little better.
ETA: I would never normally agree with Yipper, but I do remember reading the same, will try and dig it out.
ETA2; http://www.pnas.org/content/107/38/16489.abstract (USA)
Edited by Lord.Vader on Wednesday 17th January 13:58
The reason I have recently quit my relatively well paid, local job for one which is much better paid, but with more responsibility and significantly more commute is because I am petrified about how I am going to live during my retirement.
I have just pooled all my previous pensions into one and have the princely sum of £140,000. This will buy me an annuity of less than £10,000 which is what we current spend on our annual holiday. Of course there is the state pension, but I don't hold out much hope for that my the time I will qualify in 27 years (if the goalposts aren't moved again).
Therefore I think it is better to work myself hard while I am relatively young and have my health, allowing me to squirrel away like crazy in the vain hope I won't have to be 65 years old and getting up to go to work every day.
I have just pooled all my previous pensions into one and have the princely sum of £140,000. This will buy me an annuity of less than £10,000 which is what we current spend on our annual holiday. Of course there is the state pension, but I don't hold out much hope for that my the time I will qualify in 27 years (if the goalposts aren't moved again).
Therefore I think it is better to work myself hard while I am relatively young and have my health, allowing me to squirrel away like crazy in the vain hope I won't have to be 65 years old and getting up to go to work every day.
RTB said:
The danger is that if you measure yourself against other peoples accomplishments, thoughts or behaviours then you're essentially giving up control of your own contentment.
I mostly mean by equal, is to get to a place where I can pay myself as much as I pay him as currently he earns over 4x what I do. It's not a problem as I see myself as very lucky to have the opportunities to do what I do. But obviously the financial reward would be good. I get a rush from success at work like seeing a new product do well or getting a big order and I need that at the moment. Also I have had stick over the years as being just given everything so I feel a need to prove that I deserve what I have. I have always been this way though I ski raced for 10 years and when I quit I felt a bit empty not having that excitement I find it in cars too thats why one day I hope to race vintage cars.
Yipper said:
Think the academic research typically shows £50-60k is the sweet-spot between money and stress for the average Joe. Below that level and there's too little cash. Above that level and there's too much stress.
WAT? If only it were so easy to link salary with stress levels like that The less you earn, the more stressed you are. Why? It means that the £250 a week take home that some muppet who earns more than you decides is a 'living wage' yet your rent is £100 per week, there are fuel and council tax bills to pay, overdraft and student loan to pay back, your contact lenses (without which you are blind) cost £10 a week, you have to wear a suit to the office (and dry clean it weekly), so have to buy suits and shirts for work that you wouldn't normally wear at any other time, your phone and internet bill comes to over £30 a month, your travel card is £20 a week. Oh yeah, food as well.
If you can't see the stress in that then try adding other factors like the company is performing poorly due to mismanagement or recession so you don't know if your job is secure one month to another etc etc...
Literally half my working career until going self-employed was an uphill struggle like this, almost impossible to match my outgoings with my income, amazing how much of my wages was just spent on getting myself to the office and avoiding starving whilst I was there. I managed to get my student load paid off but otherwise increasing levels of debt every year as invariably my overdraft would swell as I simply had too many non-avoidable outgoings and I wasn't getting paid enough.
Of course how much of this is due to the fact that the economy has been in near-constant recession for most of my working life I wouldn't want to hazard a guess. Still, I'm my own man these days and that makes life 1000% more palatable.
vsonix said:
Yipper said:
Think the academic research typically shows £50-60k is the sweet-spot between money and stress for the average Joe. Below that level and there's too little cash. Above that level and there's too much stress.
WAT? If only it were so easy to link salary with stress levels like that The less you earn, the more stressed you are. Why? It means that the £250 a week take home that some muppet who earns more than you decides is a 'living wage' yet your rent is £100 per week, there are fuel and council tax bills to pay, overdraft and student loan to pay back, your contact lenses (without which you are blind) cost £10 a week, you have to wear a suit to the office (and dry clean it weekly), so have to buy suits and shirts for work that you wouldn't normally wear at any other time, your phone and internet bill comes to over £30 a month, your travel card is £20 a week. Oh yeah, food as well.
If you can't see the stress in that then try adding other factors like the company is performing poorly due to mismanagement or recession so you don't know if your job is secure one month to another etc etc...
Literally half my working career until going self-employed was an uphill struggle like this, almost impossible to match my outgoings with my income, amazing how much of my wages was just spent on getting myself to the office and avoiding starving whilst I was there. I managed to get my student load paid off but otherwise increasing levels of debt every year as invariably my overdraft would swell as I simply had too many non-avoidable outgoings and I wasn't getting paid enough.
Of course how much of this is due to the fact that the economy has been in near-constant recession for most of my working life I wouldn't want to hazard a guess. Still, I'm my own man these days and that makes life 1000% more palatable.
When you're on 30k and someone is handing you work on a plate and you do 40hrs and nobody sacks you if something goes wrong, it's (on the whole) a lower-stress role. But cash is not great.
When you're on 300k and you have to bring in profit from a blank page and 100 staff are acting like babies and you do 80hrs and you may get sacked if you miss this quarter's target by 5%, then it's (on the whole) a higher stress role.
The 50k jobs tend to be in-between and offer a nice balance between reasonable money (for most people) and reasonable responsibility / status.
Yipper said:
Think the academic research typically shows £50-60k is the sweet-spot between money and stress for the average Joe. Below that level and there's too little cash. Above that level and there's too much stress.
Much depends on your personal engine, of course. People with high energy are not bothered by 100-hour weeks and juggling £1m income. People with low or mid energy just wanna do 9 to 5 and watch a bit of TV. Horses for courses.
Do you ever post anything that isn't complete and utter bMuch depends on your personal engine, of course. People with high energy are not bothered by 100-hour weeks and juggling £1m income. People with low or mid energy just wanna do 9 to 5 and watch a bit of TV. Horses for courses.
ks?Yipper said:
It's linked to responsibility and fireability.
When you're on 30k and someone is handing you work on a plate and you do 40hrs and nobody sacks you if something goes wrong, it's (on the whole) a lower-stress role. But cash is not great.
When you're on 300k and you have to bring in profit from a blank page and 100 staff are acting like babies and you do 80hrs and you may get sacked if you miss this quarter's target by 5%, then it's (on the whole) a higher stress role.
The 50k jobs tend to be in-between and offer a nice balance between reasonable money (for most people) and reasonable responsibility / status.
Ah yes, i forgot, every job at 30k requires no responsibility or accountability, may as well get monkeys in eh?When you're on 30k and someone is handing you work on a plate and you do 40hrs and nobody sacks you if something goes wrong, it's (on the whole) a lower-stress role. But cash is not great.
When you're on 300k and you have to bring in profit from a blank page and 100 staff are acting like babies and you do 80hrs and you may get sacked if you miss this quarter's target by 5%, then it's (on the whole) a higher stress role.
The 50k jobs tend to be in-between and offer a nice balance between reasonable money (for most people) and reasonable responsibility / status.
Can i ask what you do? are you on a six figure salary?
berlintaxi said:
Yipper said:
Think the academic research typically shows £50-60k is the sweet-spot between money and stress for the average Joe. Below that level and there's too little cash. Above that level and there's too much stress.
Much depends on your personal engine, of course. People with high energy are not bothered by 100-hour weeks and juggling £1m income. People with low or mid energy just wanna do 9 to 5 and watch a bit of TV. Horses for courses.
Do you ever post anything that isn't complete and utter bMuch depends on your personal engine, of course. People with high energy are not bothered by 100-hour weeks and juggling £1m income. People with low or mid energy just wanna do 9 to 5 and watch a bit of TV. Horses for courses.
ks?Lord.Vader said:
I wouldn't say 08:30 - 18:00 everyday is a good work life balance; but I do agree with what you are saying, I went to night school for my degree and have just finished my masters which has helped me land the job I have had for the past 3 years, will be moving back to the U.K. this year getting a salary based on my current German salary (for which I am nicely overpaid), not direct comparison but more than I would have had.
We will return to North Wales so will be able to have a nice life, no stress, a couple of cars, sit back and enjoy life not grafting 70-80 hours a week, what's the point!
I work between 20-65 hours a week depending on travelling, etc, but rarely on a Friday unless I am out of Europe and my girlfriend doesn't work Fridays, so we usually have a 3 day weekend which is nice and I find helps balance our lifestyle a little better.
ETA: I would never normally agree with Yipper, but I do remember reading the same, will try and dig it out.
ETA2; http://www.pnas.org/content/107/38/16489.abstract (USA)
Compared to my last few roles, this is bliss. We will return to North Wales so will be able to have a nice life, no stress, a couple of cars, sit back and enjoy life
not grafting 70-80 hours a week, what's the point! I work between 20-65 hours a week depending on travelling, etc, but rarely on a Friday unless I am out of Europe and my girlfriend doesn't work Fridays, so we usually have a 3 day weekend which is nice and I find helps balance our lifestyle a little better.
ETA: I would never normally agree with Yipper, but I do remember reading the same, will try and dig it out.
ETA2; http://www.pnas.org/content/107/38/16489.abstract (USA)
Edited by Lord.Vader on Wednesday 17th January 13:58
CzechItOut said:
The reason I have recently quit my relatively well paid, local job for one which is much better paid, but with more responsibility and significantly more commute is because I am petrified about how I am going to live during my retirement.
I have just pooled all my previous pensions into one and have the princely sum of £140,000. This will buy me an annuity of less than £10,000 which is what we current spend on our annual holiday. Of course there is the state pension, but I don't hold out much hope for that my the time I will qualify in 27 years (if the goalposts aren't moved again).
Therefore I think it is better to work myself hard while I am relatively young and have my health, allowing me to squirrel away like crazy in the vain hope I won't have to be 65 years old and getting up to go to work every day.
All well and good until you get hit by a bus tomorrow.I have just pooled all my previous pensions into one and have the princely sum of £140,000. This will buy me an annuity of less than £10,000 which is what we current spend on our annual holiday. Of course there is the state pension, but I don't hold out much hope for that my the time I will qualify in 27 years (if the goalposts aren't moved again).
Therefore I think it is better to work myself hard while I am relatively young and have my health, allowing me to squirrel away like crazy in the vain hope I won't have to be 65 years old and getting up to go to work every day.
My pension will likely be worth nothing in 30 years when I retire. I will worry about that then. I will have a house to sell and savings (hopefully).
Plus who knows what money will be worth in 30 years time? Your £10k could be but a minutes wage by then. What is the point of working yourself to death when you're young and be too knackered or ill to enjoy it when you're older? I'd rather live for the now as tomorrow never comes.
TheAngryDog said:
berlintaxi said:
Yipper said:
Think the academic research typically shows £50-60k is the sweet-spot between money and stress for the average Joe. Below that level and there's too little cash. Above that level and there's too much stress.
Much depends on your personal engine, of course. People with high energy are not bothered by 100-hour weeks and juggling £1m income. People with low or mid energy just wanna do 9 to 5 and watch a bit of TV. Horses for courses.
Do you ever post anything that isn't complete and utter bMuch depends on your personal engine, of course. People with high energy are not bothered by 100-hour weeks and juggling £1m income. People with low or mid energy just wanna do 9 to 5 and watch a bit of TV. Horses for courses.
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