“Live” EDM/Dance Music
Discussion
How many do we reckon actually play anything live?
I watched Fatboy Slim at IOW festival the other week, having DJ’d professionally for a long time I can say with certainty, he was “playing” absolutely nothing.
Which meant people were cheering on a 50 year old balding bloke pretend to play music and dad dance. Tragic.
Just caught up on The Chemical Brothers and I really don’t think they did much at Glastonbury either.
Is it all a charade?
Obviously, proper bands like Jungle do actually play, and do it amazingly well but are all the superstars simply, taking the piss?
I watched Fatboy Slim at IOW festival the other week, having DJ’d professionally for a long time I can say with certainty, he was “playing” absolutely nothing.
Which meant people were cheering on a 50 year old balding bloke pretend to play music and dad dance. Tragic.
Just caught up on The Chemical Brothers and I really don’t think they did much at Glastonbury either.
Is it all a charade?
Obviously, proper bands like Jungle do actually play, and do it amazingly well but are all the superstars simply, taking the piss?
Chemical Brothers certainly are “live”. Good article here on their setup and what goes into their live show.
https://www.soundonsound.com/people/matt-cox-midi-...
https://www.soundonsound.com/people/matt-cox-midi-...
sjg said:
Chemical Brothers certainly are “live”. Good article here on their setup and what goes into their live show.
https://www.soundonsound.com/people/matt-cox-midi-...
Cheers for that.https://www.soundonsound.com/people/matt-cox-midi-...
I had always wondered what the Chemical Brothers were doing on stage and to what extent they were influencing the overall sound.
What strikes me most from the article is the fact that everything is synched to the timing grid and in fact they stress how the whole show has to be driven by a single clock source so that once the performance starts it is all tied together for 90 minutes.
That is actually what puts me off EDM. I can recognise the work that goes into manipulating patches but when the timing is too rigid it becomes unhuman and that's the point at which I switch off. There may be a skill involved but it is a very different skill from strumming a guitar or even tapping a djembi and I am not sure I would call it "live". There is a different and to my mind more challenging skill in keeping a band in time with each other and without reference to an external timing source and that is simply not a part of EDM. To me a "live" musician is doing at least as much as an EDM act but in addition they are doing it without a machine telling them what tempo to play at.
What strikes me most from the article is the fact that everything is synched to the timing grid and in fact they stress how the whole show has to be driven by a single clock source so that once the performance starts it is all tied together for 90 minutes.
That is actually what puts me off EDM. I can recognise the work that goes into manipulating patches but when the timing is too rigid it becomes unhuman and that's the point at which I switch off. There may be a skill involved but it is a very different skill from strumming a guitar or even tapping a djembi and I am not sure I would call it "live". There is a different and to my mind more challenging skill in keeping a band in time with each other and without reference to an external timing source and that is simply not a part of EDM. To me a "live" musician is doing at least as much as an EDM act but in addition they are doing it without a machine telling them what tempo to play at.
The problem is some of these DJs have now become big 'acts' so they have to surround themselves with a lights, video screens, silly headwear etc. to deliver a show to the audience. Once you stick a giant mouse head or marshmallow on your head, it's going to be harder to see what you're doing on the decks, so you just pretend to mess around with the EQ and hope nobody actually realises you're not doing anything creative.
It's now more about the 'show' and less about the music on the whole.
Norman 'FBS' was/is a great mixer/DJ but I suppose he's just kicking back these days and going with the flow. Dunno, I didn't watch the show.
I'd like to think the likes of Sasha, Nick Warren and Pete Tong still mix live and add something to it, but who really knows other than them?
Orbital, Chemical Brothers and Underworld all use playback and samples but they also put a lot into making the live experience fresh each time they play.
Let's also not forget that Grandmaster Flash is still out there touring and AFAIK mixing vinyl, so the art is not completely lost.
It's now more about the 'show' and less about the music on the whole.
Norman 'FBS' was/is a great mixer/DJ but I suppose he's just kicking back these days and going with the flow. Dunno, I didn't watch the show.
I'd like to think the likes of Sasha, Nick Warren and Pete Tong still mix live and add something to it, but who really knows other than them?
Orbital, Chemical Brothers and Underworld all use playback and samples but they also put a lot into making the live experience fresh each time they play.
Let's also not forget that Grandmaster Flash is still out there touring and AFAIK mixing vinyl, so the art is not completely lost.
FurtiveFreddy said:
Pete Tong
I can't speak for any of the others but Pete Tong was into this behaviour 20+ years ago. He routinely had other "junior" DJs playing for him at big events while he pulled a record out the box and handed it to someone else to mix while he hammed it up for the crowd.Not to do him down, dance music will forever be indebted to him for his work but he did the whole fake DJing thing years before I saw anyone else do it, what surprised me was how he didn't seem to try and hide it. It wasn't a case of pretending to mix, he simply had lackys doing the hard work for him!
I don't have a problem with people like Chem Bro's and FBS not mixing live on stage, they've produced most of the music and have created a set that should flow and be an amazing experience.
As for proper, live DJ's, my favourite one I've seen has been Ben UFO, from Hessle Audio. He can read a crowd so well, throw in some real leftfield choices and still keep the crowd pumped.
Seen Maceo Plex (mentioned above) and he was good, but wasn't the most diverse set selection.
Four Tet, Floating Points and Daphni/Caribou all give amazing sets, varied from disco and funk to techno, would highly recommend.
As for proper, live DJ's, my favourite one I've seen has been Ben UFO, from Hessle Audio. He can read a crowd so well, throw in some real leftfield choices and still keep the crowd pumped.
Seen Maceo Plex (mentioned above) and he was good, but wasn't the most diverse set selection.
Four Tet, Floating Points and Daphni/Caribou all give amazing sets, varied from disco and funk to techno, would highly recommend.
Maybe I'm a little naive, but like to think much of what I've seen is live. Certainly some of the mistakes, including from big name DJ's, suggests its certainly not a case of putting in a CD and pressing play! Poor beat matching, killing the wrong record, or playing the record being cue'd, rather than just listening through headphones etc.
Although in terms of 'live' music, nothing, ever, will beat Faithless in their prime with 3 guitarists, 2 drummers, Blissy with 5 keyboards, and Maxi Jazz playing to the crowd. Dance music at its very best.
Although in terms of 'live' music, nothing, ever, will beat Faithless in their prime with 3 guitarists, 2 drummers, Blissy with 5 keyboards, and Maxi Jazz playing to the crowd. Dance music at its very best.
Rollin said:
sjg said:
Chemical Brothers certainly are “live”. Good article here on their setup and what goes into their live show.
https://www.soundonsound.com/people/matt-cox-midi-...
Cheers for that.https://www.soundonsound.com/people/matt-cox-midi-...
A lot of superstar DJ’s are indeed taking the piss.
The question with electronic is always what ‘live’ means.
Let’s get this out of the way first: It does NOT mean DJ’ing. DJ’ing itself means mixing different music sources into one whole in front of an audience. DJ’s faking to be mixing is something different altogether and them there is the eternal discussion if automatic beatmatching by the (cd)players or mixsoftware constitutes faking it- or not.
Back to live electronic performances, there are two types:
A. One or several people playing a collection of electronic instruments and/or drumcomputers and/or computers with music software in front of an audience. They might even (who would have thought it) whip out a ‘normal’ instrument such as a guitar or sing.
B. One or several people generating all of the sounds from a contraption known as a modular synth. Used to be completely analogue bleep bloop sound generation affairs, but the present is more complex with all kinds of digital modules being available to integrate into these modular setups.
To make things easy musicians use whatever method they want so my division between A and B does not really exist.
Some examples of live electronic music:
SMD https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwvhot3A_Os
Surgeon: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww9VtKqprUY
Colin Benders: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=45GS3dlL7qM
Underworld (guitar in this one makes absolutely no fricken sense): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mSgRzfgHPQw
Etc etc. Also think about the 80’s electronic bands, the synth sections that progrock bands have, early pioneers like Kraftwerk.
The question with electronic is always what ‘live’ means.
Let’s get this out of the way first: It does NOT mean DJ’ing. DJ’ing itself means mixing different music sources into one whole in front of an audience. DJ’s faking to be mixing is something different altogether and them there is the eternal discussion if automatic beatmatching by the (cd)players or mixsoftware constitutes faking it- or not.
Back to live electronic performances, there are two types:
A. One or several people playing a collection of electronic instruments and/or drumcomputers and/or computers with music software in front of an audience. They might even (who would have thought it) whip out a ‘normal’ instrument such as a guitar or sing.
B. One or several people generating all of the sounds from a contraption known as a modular synth. Used to be completely analogue bleep bloop sound generation affairs, but the present is more complex with all kinds of digital modules being available to integrate into these modular setups.
To make things easy musicians use whatever method they want so my division between A and B does not really exist.
Some examples of live electronic music:
SMD https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwvhot3A_Os
Surgeon: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww9VtKqprUY
Colin Benders: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=45GS3dlL7qM
Underworld (guitar in this one makes absolutely no fricken sense): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mSgRzfgHPQw
Etc etc. Also think about the 80’s electronic bands, the synth sections that progrock bands have, early pioneers like Kraftwerk.
Edited by Nerdherder on Sunday 21st July 14:50
A lot of the "live" music is mixing the track parts and overlaying the effects. Adjusting a bass beat on the fly, or dropping out a kick drum is quite easily done. Perhaps it would be better to say the music is "mixed and produced" live.
I did a lot of work with Lab4 back in the day and they were also very thorough about doing as much as possible live on stage and arranging their track parts to accomplish this.
I did a lot of work with Lab4 back in the day and they were also very thorough about doing as much as possible live on stage and arranging their track parts to accomplish this.
Public Service Broadcasting at The Proms...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00071mr/bbc...
Amazing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00071mr/bbc...
Amazing.
I presume you've seen this? BBC Ibiza Prom from 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs3BXVTF7mw
If anything the first London Dome show was better - Pete's mum was in the audience, and the audience was more enthusiastic - but I cant find the video from that night.
Sadly now on its 5th tour this year its not the same as it was. The first year was truly special.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs3BXVTF7mw
If anything the first London Dome show was better - Pete's mum was in the audience, and the audience was more enthusiastic - but I cant find the video from that night.
Sadly now on its 5th tour this year its not the same as it was. The first year was truly special.
Condi said:
I presume you've seen this? BBC Ibiza Prom from 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs3BXVTF7mw
If anything the first London Dome show was better - Pete's mum was in the audience, and the audience was more enthusiastic - but I cant find the video from that night.
Sadly now on its 5th tour this year its not the same as it was. The first year was truly special.
I had the chance to go and see this a few years ago, didn't manage to go in the end. I regret not making more of an effort to see it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs3BXVTF7mw
If anything the first London Dome show was better - Pete's mum was in the audience, and the audience was more enthusiastic - but I cant find the video from that night.
Sadly now on its 5th tour this year its not the same as it was. The first year was truly special.
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