Are todays "musicians" just lazy or talentless
Discussion
There are still many talented songwriters out there, but I suspect the OP is alluding to stuff that top the charts these days.
In that respect, Musical polymath, Rick Beato sums it up
What we have is songwriters (as previously mentioned, primarily Scandinavian) using a four chord progression that is easy to play and easy on the ear. Say you're going to write a tune in the key of C. Without going into music theory, the four chords that sound good in C are : C (the I chord), F (the "four" chord), G (the "five" chord), and A minor (the "six" chord).
You can see in Rick's video that you can mix up the above chords any way one chooses, and it'll still sound "agreeable" which is why such a chord progression gets a lot of exposure.
That's not to say there aren't some current artists out there that still have creativity when it comes to writing a great tune. Bruno Mars', "When I Was Your Man" is not - stylistically - my type of tune. However, it is really well crafted. It's in the key of C major, but he rarely plays the C major chord in the tune which is clever in a way, because when he does play that C major it's almost like breathing a sigh of relief (i.e. your brain is always waiting for that chord).
Kasey Musgrave is another modern artist that is a conundrum for me. A Country & Western artist (and very easy on the eye........) who has a knack of coming up with chord progressions that just "work". Check out Slow Burn live.
In that respect, Musical polymath, Rick Beato sums it up
What we have is songwriters (as previously mentioned, primarily Scandinavian) using a four chord progression that is easy to play and easy on the ear. Say you're going to write a tune in the key of C. Without going into music theory, the four chords that sound good in C are : C (the I chord), F (the "four" chord), G (the "five" chord), and A minor (the "six" chord).
You can see in Rick's video that you can mix up the above chords any way one chooses, and it'll still sound "agreeable" which is why such a chord progression gets a lot of exposure.
That's not to say there aren't some current artists out there that still have creativity when it comes to writing a great tune. Bruno Mars', "When I Was Your Man" is not - stylistically - my type of tune. However, it is really well crafted. It's in the key of C major, but he rarely plays the C major chord in the tune which is clever in a way, because when he does play that C major it's almost like breathing a sigh of relief (i.e. your brain is always waiting for that chord).
Kasey Musgrave is another modern artist that is a conundrum for me. A Country & Western artist (and very easy on the eye........) who has a knack of coming up with chord progressions that just "work". Check out Slow Burn live.
Pick a top twenty chart from any week between1963 and 1970 and there will undoubtably be at least ten records that are classic well crafted, well arranged, well performed songs.
In one weeks chart you could find classics by the Beatles, Stones, Who, Manfred Mann, Stax, Motown, Dusty Springfield, Small Faces, Elvis, Beach Boys, Simon and Garfunkel, Bob Dylan etc.
Compare with any chart from twenty years ago up to the present and you will find mostly formulaic throwaway rubbish by one hit wonder bands who were dropped as soon as the next new sensation turned up to be exploited.
In one weeks chart you could find classics by the Beatles, Stones, Who, Manfred Mann, Stax, Motown, Dusty Springfield, Small Faces, Elvis, Beach Boys, Simon and Garfunkel, Bob Dylan etc.
Compare with any chart from twenty years ago up to the present and you will find mostly formulaic throwaway rubbish by one hit wonder bands who were dropped as soon as the next new sensation turned up to be exploited.
There’s more harmonic interest in 8 bars of JS Bach than the last 20 years of pop!
Pop music has become even more ‘simplified’ Over the last 10 years.
I have kids who want to write a grime instrumental which is essentially 1 bar of material repeated 75 times.
If you mark modern pop against GCSE grading criteria it will score quite low.
‘Turn it on’ by Genesis (not my choice) is an exemplar of a high scoring A level comp.
However there is good music and new artists out there, just look in a different place.
Pop music has become even more ‘simplified’ Over the last 10 years.
I have kids who want to write a grime instrumental which is essentially 1 bar of material repeated 75 times.
If you mark modern pop against GCSE grading criteria it will score quite low.
‘Turn it on’ by Genesis (not my choice) is an exemplar of a high scoring A level comp.
However there is good music and new artists out there, just look in a different place.
Edited by Simes205 on Thursday 22 August 23:48
Edited by Simes205 on Thursday 22 August 23:49
cherryowen said:
There are still many talented songwriters out there, but I suspect the OP is alluding to stuff that top the charts these days.
In that respect, Musical polymath, Rick Beato sums it up
What we have is songwriters (as previously mentioned, primarily Scandinavian) using a four chord progression that is easy to play and easy on the ear. Say you're going to write a tune in the key of C. Without going into music theory, the four chords that sound good in C are : C (the I chord), F (the "four" chord), G (the "five" chord), and A minor (the "six" chord).
You can see in Rick's video that you can mix up the above chords any way one chooses, and it'll still sound "agreeable" which is why such a chord progression gets a lot of exposure.
That's not to say there aren't some current artists out there that still have creativity when it comes to writing a great tune. Bruno Mars', "When I Was Your Man" is not - stylistically - my type of tune. However, it is really well crafted. It's in the key of C major, but he rarely plays the C major chord in the tune which is clever in a way, because when he does play that C major it's almost like breathing a sigh of relief (i.e. your brain is always waiting for that chord).
Kasey Musgrave is another modern artist that is a conundrum for me. A Country & Western artist (and very easy on the eye........) who has a knack of coming up with chord progressions that just "work". Check out Slow Burn live.
Thanks for that link cherryowen,sums it up well.Combine those repeated four chords with repeated same lyrics 25x through a song and I'd welcome a bullet. Modern music is doomed because the "yoof" know nothing else.In that respect, Musical polymath, Rick Beato sums it up
What we have is songwriters (as previously mentioned, primarily Scandinavian) using a four chord progression that is easy to play and easy on the ear. Say you're going to write a tune in the key of C. Without going into music theory, the four chords that sound good in C are : C (the I chord), F (the "four" chord), G (the "five" chord), and A minor (the "six" chord).
You can see in Rick's video that you can mix up the above chords any way one chooses, and it'll still sound "agreeable" which is why such a chord progression gets a lot of exposure.
That's not to say there aren't some current artists out there that still have creativity when it comes to writing a great tune. Bruno Mars', "When I Was Your Man" is not - stylistically - my type of tune. However, it is really well crafted. It's in the key of C major, but he rarely plays the C major chord in the tune which is clever in a way, because when he does play that C major it's almost like breathing a sigh of relief (i.e. your brain is always waiting for that chord).
Kasey Musgrave is another modern artist that is a conundrum for me. A Country & Western artist (and very easy on the eye........) who has a knack of coming up with chord progressions that just "work". Check out Slow Burn live.
Rider007 said:
cherryowen said:
There are still many talented songwriters out there, but I suspect the OP is alluding to stuff that top the charts these days.
In that respect, Musical polymath, Rick Beato sums it up
What we have is songwriters (as previously mentioned, primarily Scandinavian) using a four chord progression that is easy to play and easy on the ear. Say you're going to write a tune in the key of C. Without going into music theory, the four chords that sound good in C are : C (the I chord), F (the "four" chord), G (the "five" chord), and A minor (the "six" chord).
You can see in Rick's video that you can mix up the above chords any way one chooses, and it'll still sound "agreeable" which is why such a chord progression gets a lot of exposure.
That's not to say there aren't some current artists out there that still have creativity when it comes to writing a great tune. Bruno Mars', "When I Was Your Man" is not - stylistically - my type of tune. However, it is really well crafted. It's in the key of C major, but he rarely plays the C major chord in the tune which is clever in a way, because when he does play that C major it's almost like breathing a sigh of relief (i.e. your brain is always waiting for that chord).
Kasey Musgrave is another modern artist that is a conundrum for me. A Country & Western artist (and very easy on the eye........) who has a knack of coming up with chord progressions that just "work". Check out Slow Burn live.
Thanks for that link cherryowen,sums it up well.Combine those repeated four chords with repeated same lyrics 25x through a song and I'd welcome a bullet. Modern music is doomed because the "yoof" know nothing else.In that respect, Musical polymath, Rick Beato sums it up
What we have is songwriters (as previously mentioned, primarily Scandinavian) using a four chord progression that is easy to play and easy on the ear. Say you're going to write a tune in the key of C. Without going into music theory, the four chords that sound good in C are : C (the I chord), F (the "four" chord), G (the "five" chord), and A minor (the "six" chord).
You can see in Rick's video that you can mix up the above chords any way one chooses, and it'll still sound "agreeable" which is why such a chord progression gets a lot of exposure.
That's not to say there aren't some current artists out there that still have creativity when it comes to writing a great tune. Bruno Mars', "When I Was Your Man" is not - stylistically - my type of tune. However, it is really well crafted. It's in the key of C major, but he rarely plays the C major chord in the tune which is clever in a way, because when he does play that C major it's almost like breathing a sigh of relief (i.e. your brain is always waiting for that chord).
Kasey Musgrave is another modern artist that is a conundrum for me. A Country & Western artist (and very easy on the eye........) who has a knack of coming up with chord progressions that just "work". Check out Slow Burn live.
Rider007 said:
Forgot to mention in my OP , Michael Jackson, Fleetwood Mac, Police,Genesis,Pretenders, Prince, George Michael, UB40, Crowded House, Men at Work,INXS. What I'm saying is that they all have a uniqueness about them that modern stuff doesn't have.
I agree - if there is something out there then I'm all ears.Speaking of Rick Beato, last night I watched his deconstruction of Murder by Numbers by The Police. That's an absolutely awesome track, showcasing what great musicians and songwriters they were, all done in one take and it was only a B-side.
LeoSayer said:
Rider007 said:
Forgot to mention in my OP , Michael Jackson, Fleetwood Mac, Police,Genesis,Pretenders, Prince, George Michael, UB40, Crowded House, Men at Work,INXS. What I'm saying is that they all have a uniqueness about them that modern stuff doesn't have.
I agree - if there is something out there then I'm all ears.Speaking of Rick Beato, last night I watched his deconstruction of Murder by Numbers by The Police. That's an absolutely awesome track, showcasing what great musicians and songwriters they were, all done in one take and it was only a B-side.
Rider007 said:
Thanks for that link cherryowen,sums it up well.Combine those repeated four chords with repeated same lyrics 25x through a song and I'd welcome a bullet. Modern music is doomed because the "yoof" know nothing else.
I would actually say the exact opposite.Because of Spotify and YouTube etc todays 'yoof' are actually exposed to far more diverse music tastes and tend to listen far more to the music of the past than before.
Because of the way the charts are worked out you're never going to get anything particularly experimental at the top of it nowadays, but I think that's more of a function of the way it's worked out rather than the music that's produced.
Rider007 said:
Thanks for that link cherryowen,sums it up well.Combine those repeated four chords with repeated same lyrics 25x through a song and I'd welcome a bullet. Modern music is doomed because the "yoof" know nothing else.
Yep. To the list of repetitive 'artists' I would add George Ezra, whose only point of difference is the tone of his voice, and if there's a list of artists I'd actively pay not to see, Ed Sheeran would go at the very top. Rider007 said:
Forgot to mention in my OP , Michael Jackson, Fleetwood Mac, Police,Genesis,Pretenders, Prince, George Michael, UB40, Crowded House, Men at Work,INXS. What I'm saying is that they all have a uniqueness about them that modern stuff doesn't have.
I think there is a definite case of rose tinted spectacles going on here. Your above list covers some of the highlights of virtually 25 years of music, and you're comparing that to the current playlist on one radio station. I don't know if you watch any 70s/80s TOTP re-runs (not TOTP2), their top 40's are 95% tripe... Not to mention the volume of terrible music created by the 'greats' listed above.
I'll admit, current top 40s are very alien to me and have been for a number of years, and I would be tempted to say it all sounds s
te. But there will be as many talented musicians creating great music today as there has ever been.No doubt your parents were saying the same about your music 30 years ago. The likes of John Peel and Jools Holland however, never seemed to have a problem though. I think I just requires some effort.
Michael Kiwanuka (try some live sessions too), Muse, Damon Albarn, Arcade Fire, Paolo Nutini, Bears Den, The XX, The Vaccines, Bloc Party, Ben Howard. Just a few that spring to mind.
Edited by triggerhappy21 on Friday 23 August 09:12
Most chart music is rubbish, yes, but there are still many people out there making decent music. It is just harder to find because there is so much content out there, so much more music being made.
The added difficulty being originality because there are probably a finite number of good melodies to be found, and early pioneers probably found most of them - so music has to evolve to stay 'fresh'. The newer stuff isn't to your taste because I think our 'tastes' are formed over our teenage years and early 20's, and those are the genres that we keep returning to.
The added difficulty being originality because there are probably a finite number of good melodies to be found, and early pioneers probably found most of them - so music has to evolve to stay 'fresh'. The newer stuff isn't to your taste because I think our 'tastes' are formed over our teenage years and early 20's, and those are the genres that we keep returning to.
Rider007 said:
Today it's just computer generated repetitive tripe.
Just wanted to come back to this. I play cello and electric guitar, a bit of piano. I've also done some electronic stuff, and I can assure you that the latter isn't computer generated; I placed every single note. The computer is an instrument; what comes out is only tripe if that's what you put in. I've done stuff that other guitarists though was all recorded from actual performance when it was all carefully sequenced instead.But the computer doesn't generate any of it - at least not in the creative sense. It just sits there waiting for you to tell it what to do. Process-wise it's like being a composer with an orchestra (any comparison here between Bach and Boards of Canada is missing the point).
cherryowen said:
Lots of good stuff.
Recently stumbled on Rick Beatto & love the guy's joie de vivre. No slouch in the twiddly fiddly guitar stakes either.Anyhoo, the op's premise is wibble. Music has always been multi level, always had simple melody & dizzying complexity, there have always been three chord wonders & layered, nuanced songs. Moreover, the good stuff is always out there if you look for it.
Here's something from last year. Gothic Tropic - How life works. Her name is Cecilia Della Perutti & when she's not paddling her own canoe, plays guitar in Beck's live band.
Irrespective of whether you like the song, or the video, patently made for a dollar fifty, it has a delicate, layered opening riff that implies a chord progression from F to Am to Em to C. This repeats through the verse before the band drops out for a sweet synth touch in the arrangement, of single note F,G & C heralds the chorus, repeating for an uplifting chant, contrasting the gloom of the verse & a deftly arranged vocal of 'I.. wanna be good for you' that gives space & works to encourage a sing along.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqLzB2saxrw
I like this song enormously but that's not the point. The point is crafted, thoughtful music is everywhere, in all genres. Spend your life listening to Radio 1 or Heart or whatever & you'll be spoon fed a diet of commercial garbage aimed squarely at the path of least resistance. Make an effort & the good s
t is just around the corner.Rose coloured glasses by op. This is the best time for music, no longer are we stuck listening to tripe picked for us on a mono static filled radio. Listen to one of the thousands of internet radio stations of any genre.
I believe the requirements for the charts changed alot over time too, resulting in an over representative of certain music styles.
Only the good songs are remembered.
I believe the requirements for the charts changed alot over time too, resulting in an over representative of certain music styles.
Only the good songs are remembered.
PSB1 said:
ElectricSoup said:
I would like to challenge the defenders of the modern era to name some of these new bands and artists, which are of a comparable quality to the likes of those mentioned in the OP's OP.
I've been a-lookin', but I ain't been a findin'.
It's subjective of course, but I'd name Ben Howard.I've been a-lookin', but I ain't been a findin'.
HustleRussell said:
Rider007 said:
todays "musicians"
Rider007 said:
Sophie Ellis Bextor (Murder on the daaaance floor,Murder on the daaaance floor and repeat)
2001 
Nothing new though. I was sitting in a pub the other night listening to the folk group in the other room playing various folk-style tunes, and thought how repetitive they are, just the same thing over and over, exactly the same thing that I used to accuse "dance" (and I use the term loosely as I don't know how to distinguish the various genres) music of doing, just something that could be programmed into a sequencer and left to do its own thing.
It's not my kind of music at all, but I have a bit of respect for a group of people that can just turn up in a pub and start playing stuff. They're in the place once a month, varying numbers of people, just sitting around playing. It was all going well until the bloke with "Thai kickboxing" written on his jacket started throwing his toys out of the pram and complaining about the noise.
Sporky said:
ElectricSoup said:
I would like to challenge the defenders of the modern era to name some of these new bands and artists, which are of a comparable quality to the likes of those mentioned in the OP's OP.
This smells like a trap.I don't much rate any of the acts listed, so it's unlikely anyone who likes them would consider what I like to be of comparable quality. None of the ones I'd list have been in the top 40, sold out stadiums, or so on.
Having said that, I'd still say the OP list contains far better and more varied artists than anything available from the post-2000 cohort. I just can't think of anyone who hits even their heights. Meat Loaf was an opera singer ferchrissakes. Like his corny tunes and lyrics or not, the man had quality.
I'm not trying to trap anyone - I'd genuinely like to hear some suggestions from people. I've tried to get in to quite a lot of more recent artists, but there's not much clicking. Even in the slowly dying rock music genre, I find guitarists and vocalists too shrill, too monotonous, too shouty. And that's from someone who used to be a bit of a metal head. The kind of metal descended from melodic rock/bluesj/azz has died out it seems to me. Replaced by stuff like Biffy Clyro to give one example - I've seen their set at Reading Festival and blimey. I couldn't tell where one piece ended and the next began. Utterly uninspiring.
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