Band dynamics.

[So]

Master So (early teens) has started his second band. The first one disbanded due to "artistic differences". Already the second is going wrong, though.

Basically two of the band wanted their mate to join, despite him being a talentless oik. My son has gone along with it, but the newcomer is brash, talentless and unsuitable. Master So is upset because it was he who got the band together and he feels that he is being ousted.

I have explained to him that the entire history of bands is founded on similar problems.

My gut feeling is that a democracy doesn't work in a band and that there needs to be overall control by one party or otherwise a small part of the band. The line being, "It's our band, you do what we say or we will find another vocalist / bassist / drummer (delete as appropriate).

But I have never been in a band, so I don't really know. Can anyone here with experience share their wisdom please?

[gazza285]

Every band needs a boss, democracy doesn't work.

[Cantaloupe]

Tricky one, although just because someone put the band together [ it's my band ] doesn't mean they
are the natural band leader and musical sage, newer members can and do take prominence.

Brian Jones got the Stones together and U2 is still Larry Mullen's band,
it could be said Pink Floyd's best work is after Barratt's departure.

Maybe a band needs a talentless, loud and brash guy as a focal point , otherwise it's four guys staring at their shoes.

Do remember, it's the songwriters in the band who get rich, the guitar show-offs and the preening ninny frontmen
need to work and tour to make dosh, the songsmiths get royalties for the rest of their days.

[lockhart flawse]

For sure someone has to be a leader. In my experience a lot of people are water-carriers and there may be only one or two people in the band who are properly musical and one of them has to take some sort of control. I have played in bands where someone would start playing a completely different song to the one everyone else was playing and would not be aware of it for about 10 bars. Those people need to be basically told what to play.

[jackofall84]

From my days in bands as a teen (guitarist) playing original stuff, my biggest piece of advice would be not to sleep with the bass players girlfriend, the band will side with the bass player and fire you.

Secondly I can't explain it but the fans in the crowd can always sense when a band has gelled and all the players get along well, there's just more of an energy on stage. I'd say a little talent with a lot of energy and good mates in a band can go as far as a lot of talent with little energy.

I'd say it more depends on what he wants to get out of it, either be with other talented musicians who are quite up for a democratic environment and on the whole just love music and playing their instrument with little or no egos, or have fun with your mates and accept there'll be different talent levels in the band.

I've been really fortunate to have met and in some case got to play with some really talented musicians (far far superior to me) and they always seem to have the smallest egos, they just love to play. I've also seen some awful singers who think they're amazing and have massive egos as well.

[davidd]

I've also made that girlfriend mistake..

Anyway the general rule is that a band needs a leader, that leadership role can change though as time goes on.

I'm in a band, I'm the least musical but always take the lead role as otherwise we'd just arse about and never get anything done.

My son is going through similar band issues as yours, but his band is put together by his tutors (he's doing a music btec) so they have to put up with each other.

[So]

davidd said:

I've also made that girlfriend mistake..

Anyway the general rule is that a band needs a leader, that leadership role can change though as time goes on.

I'm in a band, I'm the least musical but always take the lead role as otherwise we'd just arse about and never get anything done.

My son is going through similar band issues as yours, but his band is put together by his tutors (he's doing a music btec) so they have to put up with each other.

It was a music tutor who introduced our son to his band mates, but beyond that it is down to them to make it work.

[littleredrooster]

I agree - democracy does not work in a band. Someone has to take the lead and be a combination of music director, personnel manager, psychiatrist and bully.

Other things I noted from my band days:
1. Singers/frontmen are the most 'brittle' creatures. If you get a good one, you end up walking on eggshells so as not to upset him/her.
2. Drummers who can keep good time in rehearsals never, ever can in a live gig.
3. Bass players often have the deepest music theory knowledge but are often ignored.
4. Guitarists are never completely satisfied with their kit, always wanting something different - "better"
5 Drunk audiences can always, always play guitar better than you and will tell you how they can play Flight of the Bumblebee with the guitar behind their back if you meet them in the toilets during your interval.

[epicfail]

It depends on the individuals involved. I play bass in three bands that do a differing mix of covers for function and pub gigs. Maybe I'm lucky but none suffer from serious ego, control freak issues. Decisions on what to play for each band are generally via mutual agreement. Guitarists and singers tend to be a little more needy than bass or drums. Horn sections tend to do their own thing and generally like to read music rather than remembering their parts. Keys players....no idea, spend too long with knobs and switches.

[StevieBee]

jackofall84 said:

Secondly I can't explain it but the fans in the crowd can always sense when a band has gelled and all the players get along well, there's just more of an energy on stage. I'd say a little talent with a lot of energy and good mates in a band can go as far as a lot of talent with little energy.

A point to demonstrate this...

Back when I ran a radio station, we had a band in - a three piece rock outfit - for a live session. Very much the drummer's band, a gregarious Anglo-Italian chap. The other two were 'public school' types. There was clearly tension between all of them and the distain the drummer had for the other two could be tasted. But when they played....my word, they were tight. Probably one of the best live sessions we'd had.

I went to see them play a venue in London on the back of this (and at their invitation) but it was like watching a music video - I might just have well listened to their stuff at home.

[Grrbang]

Assuming he's youngish and unconfrontational, has your son made his view known to the others? I was in a band that continued for a few years because we were assertive and got rid of toxic people when necessary, giving the band a new lease of life.

If nobody is prepared to hurt feelings, then the band will just drift apart. So common.

But if, as you implied, they might actively fire your son from his own band despite being more talented, it raises questions. It's an unusually assertive action to take if there's no underlying issue, so he should ask definitely ask nicely for their honest feedback if that happens.

[So]

Grrbang said:

Assuming he's youngish and unconfrontational, has your son made his view known to the others? I was in a band that continued for a few years because we were assertive and got rid of toxic people when necessary, giving the band a new lease of life.

If nobody is prepared to hurt feelings, then the band will just drift apart. So common.

But if, as you implied, they might actively fire your son from his own band despite being more talented, it raises questions. It's an unusually assertive action to take if there's no underlying issue, so he should ask definitely ask nicely for their honest feedback if that happens.

Since I posted, yet another member has been asked to join by the others. He hasn't got the strength of personality at this age to put his foot down.

However, he has found himself another guitarist who can play but doesn't consider himself one of the "cool" kids, who apparently knows other such musicians.

It looks like Band A has been stillborn. Long live Band B.

[Grrbang]

So said:

Since I posted, yet another member has been asked to join by the others. He hasn't got the strength of personality at this age to put his foot down.

However, he has found himself another guitarist who can play but doesn't consider himself one of the "cool" kids, who apparently knows other such musicians.

It looks like Band A has been stillborn. Long live Band B.

Sounds good, long live Band B. If he gets on well with the new guitarist and those two become the 'core' of the band, then all future decisions in the interest of the band will be easy to make.