hilux or Dmax?
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
Nobody knows what will happen with production yet. It's not been made public. I'm certainly not saying there aren't some short comings with the design nor areas that could do with updating. But that doesn't mean it isn't capable, very capable.
As for the engine. Who knows. Cost. Avoiding upgrading the axles to heavier duty ones (very likely). And the historic fact LR have never liked or wanted to market the Defender if it could out perform the more expensive models in the range. Hence why they never really used the higher output engines found in the RR and Disco line.
If they put a 3 litre + modern engine in the Defender it'd piss all over the D3/4 or RR's fitted with the V6. As an example note the Td5 Defenders where substantially de-tuned compared to Disco2's, despite using essentially the same drivetrain. As for other reasons, don't know. But it's easy to guess there may be many.
I know I'm going to regret asking this, but 'piss all over a Range Rover' at what, exactly? Apart from being a pickup truck?As for the engine. Who knows. Cost. Avoiding upgrading the axles to heavier duty ones (very likely). And the historic fact LR have never liked or wanted to market the Defender if it could out perform the more expensive models in the range. Hence why they never really used the higher output engines found in the RR and Disco line.
If they put a 3 litre + modern engine in the Defender it'd piss all over the D3/4 or RR's fitted with the V6. As an example note the Td5 Defenders where substantially de-tuned compared to Disco2's, despite using essentially the same drivetrain. As for other reasons, don't know. But it's easy to guess there may be many.
IroningMan said:
I know I'm going to regret asking this, but 'piss all over a Range Rover' at what, exactly? Apart from being a pickup truck?
Ok, I'll keep it simple.If LR had fitted the 2.7 TDV6 to the Defender with the standard 190hp as you'd have found in the D3 or even an RRS.
A pick-up 90 can weigh as little as 1800kg (or even lighter). While the RRS and D3 weigh in at 2500-2700kg.
That would give the Defender a huge power to weight advantage with much better acceleration and in-gear performance.
300bhp/ton said:
IroningMan said:
I know I'm going to regret asking this, but 'piss all over a Range Rover' at what, exactly? Apart from being a pickup truck?
Ok, I'll keep it simple.If LR had fitted the 2.7 TDV6 to the Defender with the standard 190hp as you'd have found in the D3 or even an RRS.
A pick-up 90 can weigh as little as 1800kg (or even lighter). While the RRS and D3 weigh in at 2500-2700kg.
That would give the Defender a huge power to weight advantage with much better acceleration and in-gear performance.
300bhp/ton said:
IroningMan said:
I know I'm going to regret asking this, but 'piss all over a Range Rover' at what, exactly? Apart from being a pickup truck?
Ok, I'll keep it simple.If LR had fitted the 2.7 TDV6 to the Defender with the standard 190hp as you'd have found in the D3 or even an RRS.
A pick-up 90 can weigh as little as 1800kg (or even lighter). While the RRS and D3 weigh in at 2500-2700kg.
That would give the Defender a huge power to weight advantage with much better acceleration and in-gear performance.
In standard guise I doubt I could recommend a Defender.
Stripped apart and fitted with galvanised chassis/bulkhead and cappings as well as a decent engine/gearbox I would recommend it over everything else.
Thankfully they are just like mechano, so you can take it apart and build it properly, unlike land rover.
Stripped apart and fitted with galvanised chassis/bulkhead and cappings as well as a decent engine/gearbox I would recommend it over everything else.
Thankfully they are just like mechano, so you can take it apart and build it properly, unlike land rover.
First post on here - having just got rid of an ageing Discovery 3 due to impending bills, I'm looking for a brand new replacement with the same (or nearly the same) toys and offroad capability but without the eyewatering purchase price of a Discovery 4
Defender 110 (for LR reasons) and Isuzu D-Max are where I'm at, both in at around the £33K mark unless (cough) a family-rate deal can be had on a Hilux. Neither has the total breadth of off-and-on road toys the D3 or D4 have :-(
My heart says Defender 110 XS but I know it's an archaeic vehicle on-road and it will break and cost me down the track
The DMAX I haven't test driven yet but if its manners on-road are acceptable then from the spec (on a Utah Huntsman Auto) and what I'm seeing on Youtube (especially BCCC championships) its going to be good enough for what I need off-road - AND it comes with a 5 year/125,000 mile warranty
Defender 110 (for LR reasons) and Isuzu D-Max are where I'm at, both in at around the £33K mark unless (cough) a family-rate deal can be had on a Hilux. Neither has the total breadth of off-and-on road toys the D3 or D4 have :-(
My heart says Defender 110 XS but I know it's an archaeic vehicle on-road and it will break and cost me down the track
The DMAX I haven't test driven yet but if its manners on-road are acceptable then from the spec (on a Utah Huntsman Auto) and what I'm seeing on Youtube (especially BCCC championships) its going to be good enough for what I need off-road - AND it comes with a 5 year/125,000 mile warranty
Disco3Steve said:
Defender 110 (for LR reasons) and Isuzu D-Max are where I'm at, both in at around the £33K mark unless (cough) a family-rate deal can be had on a Hilux. Neither has the total breadth of off-and-on road toys the D3 or D4 have :-(
A properly set up Defender can be very good on the road (110 or 130), 90's are terrible due to the stiff springs and short wheelbase and subsequent pogo action over bumps.Fit your 110 with soft front's and airbags on the rear for range rover ride quality.
Disco3Steve said:
First post on here - having just got rid of an ageing Discovery 3 due to impending bills, I'm looking for a brand new replacement with the same (or nearly the same) toys and offroad capability but without the eyewatering purchase price of a Discovery 4
Defender 110 (for LR reasons) and Isuzu D-Max are where I'm at, both in at around the £33K mark unless (cough) a family-rate deal can be had on a Hilux. Neither has the total breadth of off-and-on road toys the D3 or D4 have :-(
My heart says Defender 110 XS but I know it's an archaeic vehicle on-road and it will break and cost me down the track
The DMAX I haven't test driven yet but if its manners on-road are acceptable then from the spec (on a Utah Huntsman Auto) and what I'm seeing on Youtube (especially BCCC championships) its going to be good enough for what I need off-road - AND it comes with a 5 year/125,000 mile warranty
I don't get what people think is wrong with a Defender on the road. I've driven LOTS of vehicles and Defenders are perfectly fine on the road. They handle and stop fine, have more than enough go for their intended use and ride better than most compact hatchbacks.Defender 110 (for LR reasons) and Isuzu D-Max are where I'm at, both in at around the £33K mark unless (cough) a family-rate deal can be had on a Hilux. Neither has the total breadth of off-and-on road toys the D3 or D4 have :-(
My heart says Defender 110 XS but I know it's an archaeic vehicle on-road and it will break and cost me down the track
The DMAX I haven't test driven yet but if its manners on-road are acceptable then from the spec (on a Utah Huntsman Auto) and what I'm seeing on Youtube (especially BCCC championships) its going to be good enough for what I need off-road - AND it comes with a 5 year/125,000 mile warranty
As for trucks, well if a D3 is what you are using now, I'm assuming you aren't needing a pickup bed?
Have you considered the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited? 5 door, similar length to a 110, better power to weight ratio than a TDV6 D3. All the toys and better off road ability than a 110.
http://www.jeep.co.uk/wrangler-unlimited/
To be fair I hadn't looked at the Jeep option (scuttles off to do some googling)
If I got a D-Max/Hilux it would definitely have a canopy on it as the D3 was the family transit van carrying all manner of s
t around and also my camping vehicle of choice - the Huntsman variant of the D-Max comes with a raised bed with lockable gun drawers which I would use for other reasons, so would fit the bill nicely. The 6th/7th seats of the D3 had become virtually redundant so a 5 seater pickup bits the bill there
If I got a D-Max/Hilux it would definitely have a canopy on it as the D3 was the family transit van carrying all manner of s
t around and also my camping vehicle of choice - the Huntsman variant of the D-Max comes with a raised bed with lockable gun drawers which I would use for other reasons, so would fit the bill nicely. The 6th/7th seats of the D3 had become virtually redundant so a 5 seater pickup bits the bill thereRanger 3.2...Wrangler is good owned a 2.8LWB Sahara.
Shogun 3.2 late 2010 great...200hp and 40mpg. Solid simple comfy good equipment and resonable price. Best thing tried and test 15 year design still overbuilt as they were back then. Value for money, resale, reliability, purchase cost, nothing even get close to a LWB shogun.
Pre reg middle range models were being advertised at 25k new the other month. That or a toy town crossover with the engine the wrong way round? oh and 7 seats.
Shogun 3.2 late 2010 great...200hp and 40mpg. Solid simple comfy good equipment and resonable price. Best thing tried and test 15 year design still overbuilt as they were back then. Value for money, resale, reliability, purchase cost, nothing even get close to a LWB shogun.
Pre reg middle range models were being advertised at 25k new the other month. That or a toy town crossover with the engine the wrong way round? oh and 7 seats.
Edited by RumRunner on Sunday 27th September 00:16
normalbloke said:
I can't believe you've discounted the Great Wall Steed...... It's right up there with the LR product with regards to comfort.....
There are lots of Great Walls by us...main dealer in town and we are rural so farmers love them... basically what a series Landie started out as. Some friends have 3 in the company and are totally made up with them.No issues on the late one's they tick all boxes, great trim levels and a total bargain, even resale is not a total washout. Another guy I know needed a complete new door without glass and internals after being hit..47quid..parts are for nothing.
Only issue I know of on one was a wiper motor and the guy said it was under 13 quid for new one. Mind you VW coal fired powerstation might knacker the resale...for this week anyway
Shogun has one of the best 4x4 system...
2wheel road use High
4wheel road use.High
4wheel Centre Diff lock High
4wheel Low Centre Diff Lock and Rear Lock
Not all have the rear lock
I think the very latest Shogun is in perm 4x4 but on a split % low at the front until you engage 4wheel drive. Probably given the power increase its a good thing.
However most truck do not have a centre diff only transfer box which mean 4x4 is only useable on a loose surface or you get windup. When L200 were all the rage this was a big problem with broken drive trains.
I think the latest L200 is the only U.K truck with centre diff.
My Wrangler JK also no centre diff..old Discos perm 4x4 but loosing power and eco when not needed...though I do miss my old Disco 3.9v8 Manual on gas...would love to find a mint one.
Oh and for serious off road use small stuff works much better. Jimny Mk1 Vtiara used them all in anger and on beaches. Had a Terrios Mk1 in the Caribbean for 4months that did some amazing stunts. The big stuff on soft sand is often terrible.. On all the big stuff we had to loose most of the air in the tyres to get close to the small stuff running standard specs.
2wheel road use High
4wheel road use.High
4wheel Centre Diff lock High
4wheel Low Centre Diff Lock and Rear Lock
Not all have the rear lock
I think the very latest Shogun is in perm 4x4 but on a split % low at the front until you engage 4wheel drive. Probably given the power increase its a good thing.
However most truck do not have a centre diff only transfer box which mean 4x4 is only useable on a loose surface or you get windup. When L200 were all the rage this was a big problem with broken drive trains.
I think the latest L200 is the only U.K truck with centre diff.
My Wrangler JK also no centre diff..old Discos perm 4x4 but loosing power and eco when not needed...though I do miss my old Disco 3.9v8 Manual on gas...would love to find a mint one.
Oh and for serious off road use small stuff works much better. Jimny Mk1 Vtiara used them all in anger and on beaches. Had a Terrios Mk1 in the Caribbean for 4months that did some amazing stunts. The big stuff on soft sand is often terrible.. On all the big stuff we had to loose most of the air in the tyres to get close to the small stuff running standard specs.
Edited by RumRunner on Sunday 8th November 23:49
So test drove a DMAX with ALL the toys and signed on the dotted line for pickup on New Years Eve
Only three negatives:
1. Engine is a bit growly
2. 5 speed auto is taking some getting used to
3. And it does not ride like a Range Rover
Everything else is spot on, including the price (about half that of a Discovery)
Only three negatives:
1. Engine is a bit growly
2. 5 speed auto is taking some getting used to
3. And it does not ride like a Range Rover
Everything else is spot on, including the price (about half that of a Discovery)
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