4x4 recommendation for soft verges
Discussion
Suburb forester, Nissan x trail, and Honda CR-V all seem to be good bets. No idea what your budget is but I once had a series one Honda CR-V which I bought for 750 quid. I kid you not it was the most reliable car I've had. Drove it to Scotland and back a few weeks after buying it completely without incident. It even had a fold out picnic table which was stored under the base of the boot. Ingenious. If I needed a cheap winter hack I'd buy one again in a heartbeat.
Brother swears by Volvo and has an xc90 and xc60. Both have been excellent but they are pricey.
Brother swears by Volvo and has an xc90 and xc60. Both have been excellent but they are pricey.
mgsontour said:
4x4 recommendation for soft verges, I've moved to semi rural location and roads mostly have soft verges. I'm looking for a 4x4 estate or SUV about 8years old as a run-around to avoid getting stuck during winter/floods, what's your recommendations?
If you are going onto the soft verge then it may be safe to assume that both the front and rear near side wheels will be on the slippy stuff? Any AWD car with open diffs could still struggle because all the power will just follow the path of least resistance, i.e. the two wheels on the verge. With an open diff AWD system you can have just one wheel spinning or both wheels on the SAME axle spinning, but if there's one wheel spinning on each axle at the same time then you're going to be stuck. A lockable centre diff won't help either (such as the Kia Sorento, Santa Fe, Grand Vitara etc) as all it does is force a 50/50 split of power to each axle but each individual axle still has open diffs. It's a bit of waste really especially with viscous couplings being used now that take care of this automatically (to a certain extent depending on the system). This would be a good time to mention that the Kia and Hyundai AWD system is woefully incapable of handling the +400Nm of torque of the 2.2 diesel produces. The viscous coupling are notorious for going bad (£2k), the transfer case (£3k), rear diff (£3k). Hence those out of warranty suffer huge depreciation.You will have slightly more chance than a standard FWD or RWD car because you have double the chance of getting a little bite but what you really need is either a car with a locking diff, lsd or one which can use the ABS/Stability control systems to effectively 'trick' the system by locking up the spinning wheel so power is then sent to the other wheel on that axle which has grip. I'm sure my BMW 330d X-Drive did this because I was driving about in snow which was causing many a AWD jeep to get stuck. There's also locking hubs, the Jimny using an automatic system using vacuum I think.
There's some YouTube videos showing diagonal tests of AWD systems which may be worth a watch. Look out for the ones which have three wheels in the air and see how they deal with it.
Also, when I say AWD I just mean a car which can put power to both axles whether it be full-time or part-time. There's a debate between the terminology of AWD and 4WD etc. Should also state, I'm far from an expert or anything with AWD, this is just bits and bobs I've picked up over time so happy to be corrected and educated!
Edited by ninjag on Monday 8th October 14:00
ninjag said:
If you are going onto the soft verge then it may be safe to assume that both the front and rear near side wheels will be on the slippy stuff? Any AWD car with open diffs could still struggle because all the power will just follow the path of least resistance, i.e. the two wheels on the verge. With an open diff AWD system you can have just one wheel spinning or both wheels on the SAME axle spinning, but if there's one wheel spinning on each axle at the same time then you're going to be stuck. A lockable centre diff won't help either (such as the Kia Sorento, Santa Fe, Grand Vitara etc) as all it does is force a 50/50 split of power to each axle but each individual axle still has open diffs. It's a bit of waste really especially with viscous couplings being used now that take care of this automatically (to a certain extent depending on the system). This would be a good time to mention that the Kia and Hyundai AWD system is woefully incapable of handling the +400Nm of torque of the 2.2 diesel produces. The viscous coupling are notorious for going bad (£2k), the transfer case (£3k), rear diff (£3k). Hence those out of warranty suffer huge depreciation.
You will have slightly more chance than a standard FWD or RWD car because you have double the chance of getting a little bite but what you really need is either a car with a locking diff, lsd or one which can use the ABS/Stability control systems to effectively 'trick' the system by locking up the spinning wheel so power is then sent to the other wheel on that axle which has grip. I'm sure my BMW 330d X-Drive did this because I was driving about in snow which was causing many a AWD jeep to get stuck. There's also locking hubs, the Jimny using an automatic system using vacuum I think.
There's some YouTube videos showing diagonal tests of AWD systems which may be worth a watch. Look out for the ones which have three wheels in the air and see how they deal with it.
Also, when I say AWD I just mean a car which can put power to both axles whether it be full-time or part-time. There's a debate between the terminology of AWD and 4WD etc. Should also state, I'm far from an expert or anything with AWD, this is just bits and bobs I've picked up over time so happy to be corrected and educated!
Ummm, I didn't know what you said but makes sense when you see the price of the 2nd hand KIA etc and great food for thought; appreciated. . . Do you have a recommendation of what make/model to be included on a shortlist? The area where I live Disco 2 and Landrover seem the weapons of choiceYou will have slightly more chance than a standard FWD or RWD car because you have double the chance of getting a little bite but what you really need is either a car with a locking diff, lsd or one which can use the ABS/Stability control systems to effectively 'trick' the system by locking up the spinning wheel so power is then sent to the other wheel on that axle which has grip. I'm sure my BMW 330d X-Drive did this because I was driving about in snow which was causing many a AWD jeep to get stuck. There's also locking hubs, the Jimny using an automatic system using vacuum I think.
There's some YouTube videos showing diagonal tests of AWD systems which may be worth a watch. Look out for the ones which have three wheels in the air and see how they deal with it.
Also, when I say AWD I just mean a car which can put power to both axles whether it be full-time or part-time. There's a debate between the terminology of AWD and 4WD etc. Should also state, I'm far from an expert or anything with AWD, this is just bits and bobs I've picked up over time so happy to be corrected and educated!
Edited by ninjag on Monday 8th October 14:00
ninjag said:
If you are going onto the soft verge then it may be safe to assume that both the front and rear near side wheels will be on the slippy stuff? Any AWD car with open diffs could still struggle because all the power will just follow the path of least resistance, i.e. the two wheels on the verge. With an open diff AWD system you can have just one wheel spinning or both wheels on the SAME axle spinning, but if there's one wheel spinning on each axle at the same time then you're going to be stuck. A lockable centre diff won't help either (such as the Kia Sorento, Santa Fe, Grand Vitara etc) as all it does is force a 50/50 split of power to each axle but each individual axle still has open diffs. It's a bit of waste really especially with viscous couplings being used now that take care of this automatically (to a certain extent depending on the system). This would be a good time to mention that the Kia and Hyundai AWD system is woefully incapable of handling the +400Nm of torque of the 2.2 diesel produces. The viscous coupling are notorious for going bad (£2k), the transfer case (£3k), rear diff (£3k). Hence those out of warranty suffer huge depreciation.
You will have slightly more chance than a standard FWD or RWD car because you have double the chance of getting a little bite but what you really need is either a car with a locking diff, lsd or one which can use the ABS/Stability control systems to effectively 'trick' the system by locking up the spinning wheel so power is then sent to the other wheel on that axle which has grip. I'm sure my BMW 330d X-Drive did this because I was driving about in snow which was causing many a AWD jeep to get stuck. There's also locking hubs, the Jimny using an automatic system using vacuum I think.
There's some YouTube videos showing diagonal tests of AWD systems which may be worth a watch. Look out for the ones which have three wheels in the air and see how they deal with it.
Also, when I say AWD I just mean a car which can put power to both axles whether it be full-time or part-time. There's a debate between the terminology of AWD and 4WD etc. Should also state, I'm far from an expert or anything with AWD, this is just bits and bobs I've picked up over time so happy to be corrected and educated!
Ummm, I didn't know what you said but makes sense when you see the price of the 2nd hand KIA etc and great food for thought; appreciated. . . Do you have a recommendation of what make/model to be included on a shortlist? The area where I live Disco 2 and Landrover seem the weapons of choiceYou will have slightly more chance than a standard FWD or RWD car because you have double the chance of getting a little bite but what you really need is either a car with a locking diff, lsd or one which can use the ABS/Stability control systems to effectively 'trick' the system by locking up the spinning wheel so power is then sent to the other wheel on that axle which has grip. I'm sure my BMW 330d X-Drive did this because I was driving about in snow which was causing many a AWD jeep to get stuck. There's also locking hubs, the Jimny using an automatic system using vacuum I think.
There's some YouTube videos showing diagonal tests of AWD systems which may be worth a watch. Look out for the ones which have three wheels in the air and see how they deal with it.
Also, when I say AWD I just mean a car which can put power to both axles whether it be full-time or part-time. There's a debate between the terminology of AWD and 4WD etc. Should also state, I'm far from an expert or anything with AWD, this is just bits and bobs I've picked up over time so happy to be corrected and educated!
Edited by ninjag on Monday 8th October 14:00
mgsontour said:
Ummm, I didn't know what you said but makes sense when you see the price of the 2nd hand KIA etc and great food for thought; appreciated. . . Do you have a recommendation of what make/model to be included on a shortlist? The area where I live Disco 2 and Landrover seem the weapons of choice
Sorry, got a bit carried away! Disco will basically do what it's supposed to do and obviously reliability can be hit and miss with them, although there's a big following plus lots of aftermarket parts. But, the early Gen discos can suffer bad rust which can be a nightmare to fix. If going for one I would check underneath carefully for rust and if possible look for one which has been treated. Grand Cherokee is just as capable off road, although their reliability is questioned but I'm not so sure and I've never seen one broken down.
I'll have a think what else in that age etc.
mgsontour said:
Ummm, I didn't know what you said but makes sense when you see the price of the 2nd hand KIA etc and great food for thought; appreciated. . . Do you have a recommendation of what make/model to be included on a shortlist? The area where I live Disco 2 and Landrover seem the weapons of choice
What kind of money are you willing to spend?Jakarta said:
BMW 330 with a welded diff.
Why? The X-Drive uses the DSC system to apply the brakes to a slipping wheel and therefore transfer the power across the axle to the other wheel and thus imitating a limited slip diff. It's not going to send as much torque to the wheel with grip so not really great for proper off-road but for non-serious stuff it's more than adequate. I was driving around (330d) with no problem at all in the heavy snow we had at the end of Feb and I even helped tow a car out of a ditch whilst all your usual SUVs were getting stuck, especially on the hills. The downside I had was poor ground clearance. Gassing Station | Off Road | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff