Billing off-road show, off road course
Discussion
I did the Billing off-road show last weekend, I'd not been before and it was a good day out, even better as if you took a Toylander you got in for free!
I was watching the off road course for a bit, and then did it in my old 110, but it struck me that a lot of quite heavily modified vehicles (massive tyres, huge whistling turbos, enormous suspension) were actually making a bit of a meal of it compared to much more standard vehicles.
My 110 is slightly modified, it has 265/75/16 off road tyres for grip, a snorkel for wading, and a winch and winch bumper in case I run out of talent or grip. but other than some cosmetic stuff is basically pretty standard. We chugged around the whole course with no dramas (missed the zig zag tree bit out as that was probably more suited to a 90) and even kept the thing reasonably clean, following another very standard 110 who did everything apart from the really long water run. But it just seemed that there were so many drivers with a foot to the floor attitude, mud absolutely everywhere, just making a mess of it. I saw a fairly trick 90 get recovered from the mud run, and got stuck behind a disco 1 on huge tyres that could not make it out of the water splash without a tow.
Is this the new norm...or is less actually more when it comes to vehicle mods unless you are in the realms of winch challenge trucks etc?
I was watching the off road course for a bit, and then did it in my old 110, but it struck me that a lot of quite heavily modified vehicles (massive tyres, huge whistling turbos, enormous suspension) were actually making a bit of a meal of it compared to much more standard vehicles.
My 110 is slightly modified, it has 265/75/16 off road tyres for grip, a snorkel for wading, and a winch and winch bumper in case I run out of talent or grip. but other than some cosmetic stuff is basically pretty standard. We chugged around the whole course with no dramas (missed the zig zag tree bit out as that was probably more suited to a 90) and even kept the thing reasonably clean, following another very standard 110 who did everything apart from the really long water run. But it just seemed that there were so many drivers with a foot to the floor attitude, mud absolutely everywhere, just making a mess of it. I saw a fairly trick 90 get recovered from the mud run, and got stuck behind a disco 1 on huge tyres that could not make it out of the water splash without a tow.
Is this the new norm...or is less actually more when it comes to vehicle mods unless you are in the realms of winch challenge trucks etc?
Hard-Drive said:
I did the Billing off-road show last weekend, I'd not been before and it was a good day out, even better as if you took a Toylander you got in for free!
I was watching the off road course for a bit, and then did it in my old 110, but it struck me that a lot of quite heavily modified vehicles (massive tyres, huge whistling turbos, enormous suspension) were actually making a bit of a meal of it compared to much more standard vehicles.
My 110 is slightly modified, it has 265/75/16 off road tyres for grip, a snorkel for wading, and a winch and winch bumper in case I run out of talent or grip. but other than some cosmetic stuff is basically pretty standard. We chugged around the whole course with no dramas (missed the zig zag tree bit out as that was probably more suited to a 90) and even kept the thing reasonably clean, following another very standard 110 who did everything apart from the really long water run. But it just seemed that there were so many drivers with a foot to the floor attitude, mud absolutely everywhere, just making a mess of it. I saw a fairly trick 90 get recovered from the mud run, and got stuck behind a disco 1 on huge tyres that could not make it out of the water splash without a tow.
Is this the new norm...or is less actually more when it comes to vehicle mods unless you are in the realms of winch challenge trucks etc?
Several things going on here.I was watching the off road course for a bit, and then did it in my old 110, but it struck me that a lot of quite heavily modified vehicles (massive tyres, huge whistling turbos, enormous suspension) were actually making a bit of a meal of it compared to much more standard vehicles.
My 110 is slightly modified, it has 265/75/16 off road tyres for grip, a snorkel for wading, and a winch and winch bumper in case I run out of talent or grip. but other than some cosmetic stuff is basically pretty standard. We chugged around the whole course with no dramas (missed the zig zag tree bit out as that was probably more suited to a 90) and even kept the thing reasonably clean, following another very standard 110 who did everything apart from the really long water run. But it just seemed that there were so many drivers with a foot to the floor attitude, mud absolutely everywhere, just making a mess of it. I saw a fairly trick 90 get recovered from the mud run, and got stuck behind a disco 1 on huge tyres that could not make it out of the water splash without a tow.
Is this the new norm...or is less actually more when it comes to vehicle mods unless you are in the realms of winch challenge trucks etc?
1. All the gear and no idea.
2. Many modified 4x4's are badly modified (even if they look good) and will perform worse off road than a stock vehicle.
3. The off roading scene in the UK over the past decade has sadly taken a turn towards knobheads, that when combined with the above two points make for a lot of bad press and idiots ruining things for everyone else.
Billing in recent years seems to draw such people in their droves. Years back it was a very different scene.
300bhp/ton said:
Several things going on here.
1. All the gear and no idea.
2. Many modified 4x4's are badly modified (even if they look good) and will perform worse off road than a stock vehicle.
3. The off roading scene in the UK over the past decade has sadly taken a turn towards knobheads, that when combined with the above two points make for a lot of bad press and idiots ruining things for everyone else.
Billing in recent years seems to draw such people in their droves. Years back it was a very different scene.
^^^ This...1. All the gear and no idea.
2. Many modified 4x4's are badly modified (even if they look good) and will perform worse off road than a stock vehicle.
3. The off roading scene in the UK over the past decade has sadly taken a turn towards knobheads, that when combined with the above two points make for a lot of bad press and idiots ruining things for everyone else.
Billing in recent years seems to draw such people in their droves. Years back it was a very different scene.
There is a saying: "As slow as possible, as fast as necessary...".
With the correct training, most people are VERY surprised at what a standard vehicle can do, even on standard tyres! I've always advocated having some training and learning how to drive off-road, before starting to modify a vehicle. That's because when you know what you're doing, you are then in a better position to understand what the pros & cons of each modification is.
M
Hard-Drive said:
My 110 is slightly modified, it has 265/75/16 off road tyres for grip, a snorkel for wading, and a winch and winch bumper in case I run out of talent or grip. but other than some cosmetic stuff is basically pretty standard...
...Is this the new norm...or is less actually more when it comes to vehicle mods unless you are in the realms of winch challenge trucks etc?
I'm a big fan of the 'Less is more' approach... Let's have a look at your car as an example of modifications:...Is this the new norm...or is less actually more when it comes to vehicle mods unless you are in the realms of winch challenge trucks etc?
Snorkel - It's not a snorkel, it's a raised air intake.
Yeah, it helps in deep water but there's more to water than just keeping it out of the engine. That said, it's one of the few modifications I would make to a Defender.Winch & bumper - If you get stuck, the easy way out is going out the way you went it... Backwards! A vehicle mounted winch can only pull you forwards (yeah, I know there are exceptions but that's splitting hairs!). Personally, I wouldn't bother with a winch. I know it's an effort but I'm a big fan of hand winches (Tirfor) as it means you can pull the car in any direction, so great for self recovery (and an upper-body workout!). It's also worth noting winches can be very dangerous, so worth getting some training.
265/75R16 - Strangely enough, narrower tyres can often perform better... For general 'plugging' & overland use, I use Michelin XZL 7.50R16. It's a narrower tyre, which lets the tyre 'dig' into the mud better and strong enough to run at low pressure if you need the 'floatation'. However, tyre choice is always going to be a compromise and this is where experience in the prevailing conditions helps massively.
The only other modifications I'd make over stock are recovery points, diff guards and a steering guard.
Good to see you got stuck in and gave it a go... Taking it easy is the best way and you'll learn far more by getting stuck, getting some advice and then having another go.
...and your oil seals will be thankful you didn't give it a load of 'right-foot' for a big splash!!
M
Edited by camel_landy on Wednesday 3rd July 16:56
camel_landy said:
Hard-Drive said:
My 110 is slightly modified, it has 265/75/16 off road tyres for grip, a snorkel for wading, and a winch and winch bumper in case I run out of talent or grip. but other than some cosmetic stuff is basically pretty standard...
...Is this the new norm...or is less actually more when it comes to vehicle mods unless you are in the realms of winch challenge trucks etc?
I'm a big fan of the 'Less is more' approach... Let's have a look at your car as an example of modifications:...Is this the new norm...or is less actually more when it comes to vehicle mods unless you are in the realms of winch challenge trucks etc?
Snorkel - It's not a snorkel, it's a raised air intake.
Yeah, it helps in deep water but there's more to water than just keeping it out of the engine. That said, it's one of the few modifications I would make to a Defender.Winch & bumper - If you get stuck, the easy way out is going out the way you went it... Backwards! A vehicle mounted winch can only pull you forwards (yeah, I know there are exceptions but that's splitting hairs!). Personally, I wouldn't bother with a winch. I know it's an effort but I'm a big fan of hand winches (Tirfor) as it means you can pull the car in any direction, so great for self recovery (and an upper-body workout!). It's also worth noting winches can be very dangerous, so worth getting some training.
265/75R16 - Strangely enough, narrower tyres can often perform better... For general 'plugging' & overland use, I use Michelin XZL 7.50R16. It's a narrower tyre, which lets the tyre 'dig' into the mud better and strong enough to run at low pressure if you need the 'floatation'. However, tyre choice is always going to be a compromise and this is where experience in the prevailing conditions helps massively.
The only other modifications I'd make over stock are recovery points, diff guards and a steering guard.
Good to see you got stuck in and gave it a go... Taking it easy is the best way and you'll learn far more by getting stuck, getting some advice and then having another go.
...and your oil seals will be thankful you didn't give it a load of 'right-foot' for a big splash!!
M
Edited by camel_landy on Wednesday 3rd July 16:56
Back in my early twenties I did a fair bit of laning and a few pay and plays...I had an ex RAF S3 109" petrol, and mates had a mixture of 88 and 109 2.5 diesels. OK one had a 101" and had huge grunt, but we were all on XCLs, SATs, Rangemasters etc with not a turbo, power steering box or coil spring in sight. We had a couple of tirfors and a two vehicles with Fairey capstan winches. None of us had the money to even think about anything coil sprung, and we used to tackle some pretty demanding stuff. Back then my only real modification was a marigold over my dizzy cap and taking the 8 bladed fan off so it didn't chuck water all over my HT leads!
It does seem that modern thinking is that you can't tackle anything without 44" Bogzillas and a roof mounted exhaust. This really wants me to get a bog standard ratty diesel 88" on 7.50s and go and show up the "competition"!
Anyway, a couple of pics of the day...
http://www.picman.co.uk/albums.php?img=1608889
http://www.picman.co.uk/albums.php?img=1611092
camel_landy said:
I'm a big fan of the 'Less is more' approach... Let's have a look at your car as an example of modifications:
Snorkel - It's not a snorkel, it's a raised air intake. Yeah, it helps in deep water but there's more to water than just keeping it out of the engine. That said, it's one of the few modifications I would make to a Defender.
Winch & bumper - If you get stuck, the easy way out is going out the way you went it... Backwards! A vehicle mounted winch can only pull you forwards (yeah, I know there are exceptions but that's splitting hairs!). Personally, I wouldn't bother with a winch. I know it's an effort but I'm a big fan of hand winches (Tirfor) as it means you can pull the car in any direction, so great for self recovery (and an upper-body workout!). It's also worth noting winches can be very dangerous, so worth getting some training.
265/75R16 - Strangely enough, narrower tyres can often perform better... For general 'plugging' & overland use, I use Michelin XZL 7.50R16. It's a narrower tyre, which lets the tyre 'dig' into the mud better and strong enough to run at low pressure if you need the 'floatation'. However, tyre choice is always going to be a compromise and this is where experience in the prevailing conditions helps massively.
The only other modifications I'd make over stock are recovery points, diff guards and a steering guard.
Good to see you got stuck in and gave it a go... Taking it easy is the best way and you'll learn far more by getting stuck, getting some advice and then having another go.
...and your oil seals will be thankful you didn't give it a load of 'right-foot' for a big splash!!
M
Not really disagreeing.Snorkel - It's not a snorkel, it's a raised air intake.
Yeah, it helps in deep water but there's more to water than just keeping it out of the engine. That said, it's one of the few modifications I would make to a Defender.Winch & bumper - If you get stuck, the easy way out is going out the way you went it... Backwards! A vehicle mounted winch can only pull you forwards (yeah, I know there are exceptions but that's splitting hairs!). Personally, I wouldn't bother with a winch. I know it's an effort but I'm a big fan of hand winches (Tirfor) as it means you can pull the car in any direction, so great for self recovery (and an upper-body workout!). It's also worth noting winches can be very dangerous, so worth getting some training.
265/75R16 - Strangely enough, narrower tyres can often perform better... For general 'plugging' & overland use, I use Michelin XZL 7.50R16. It's a narrower tyre, which lets the tyre 'dig' into the mud better and strong enough to run at low pressure if you need the 'floatation'. However, tyre choice is always going to be a compromise and this is where experience in the prevailing conditions helps massively.
The only other modifications I'd make over stock are recovery points, diff guards and a steering guard.
Good to see you got stuck in and gave it a go... Taking it easy is the best way and you'll learn far more by getting stuck, getting some advice and then having another go.
...and your oil seals will be thankful you didn't give it a load of 'right-foot' for a big splash!!
M
Edited by camel_landy on Wednesday 3rd July 16:56
I wouldn’t worry about diff guards unless you are crawling over rocks all day. And a snorkel while kinda cool is only needed if you are doing over the bonnet water levels.
Btw 265/75R16 is a standard factory size for Defenders. Although I agree for most terrain in the UK narrow tyres tend to work better.
camel_landy said:
300bhp/ton said:
Btw 265/75R16 is a standard factory size for Defenders
Never seen that one as a 'factory fit'. 235/85R16 even when MT/Rs were fitted.M
camel_landy said:
Never seen that one as a 'factory fit'. 235/85R16 even when MT/Rs were fitted.
M
I think the NAS models used 265/75'sM
https://tiresize.com/tires/Land-Rover/Defender/
camel_landy said:
Hard-Drive said:
Aren't they practically the same size apart from the width?
Yes... It would also have a knock-on effect on your turning circle, thanks to the lack of clearance between the inner-sidewall and the radius arms.M
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