Did everyone get made redundant?
Discussion
Interesting read! Apologies for the mini essay below, but these are my thoughts - To note, my comments below don't refer to people in this thread, before anyone gets a bit edgy. I worked for 3yrs in the O&G industry and worked with some right characters! I'll leave it at that!
We are approaching 6 years now and to be perfectly honest don't notice a lot of difference. People come, people go. Taxed extra on this, rent down on that.....etc etc,
As above, unfortunately every time I go anywhere (except Friday morning) its rammed.
Malls - always bloody rammed....parking a b
h.
Roads - crazy
Petrol Stations - 10min wait, easy
Phone shop - 10+ people in front
Brunch - rammed
Lifts at work - don't even ask!
No exaggeration, maybe I am missing a trick.
I work for a large schools group (not Gems), responsible for Europe, Middle East and South East Asia. Our ME business has out performed both other regions, and we have increased enrolments at all 4 of our UAE schools. Yes I know there are many factors, but we just aren't feeling it right now. Perhaps its a delayed reaction, but that't the reality.
Dubai ain't the place it once was, with crazy packages on offer but there is still decent money to be made if you don't let it all go to your head and live within your means. I think businesses are becoming smart and not offering such packages anymore, and those that had them aren't willing to accept that. Not saying that's everyone, but I know of some who have taken a big cut to stay, and others that thought f*ck it.
For good measure, on the other hand some of our friends who have been here 25+yrs and commented that they feel more people are departing now than 2007/2008. I have to say I do hear of more people leaving now, but then I do know more people then I did 4-5yrs ago. This place will always have a transient expat population.
The place ain't perfect by a long stretch but I don't think many appreciate what it has given them during their time here and I don't always mean financially either. It certainly a safe place to live, weather is mostly great, on the doorstep to many places to travel to, good for families, cars! Many people leave benefiting from doing or having things they wouldn't usually, but still moan because of the situation when leaving - "no the place is boring", "I didn't enjoy it", "Its getting too expensive". etc etc......Bullsh*t! They probably weren't saying that when they were living it up. Just sour because they'd relied on a life that wasn't sustainable, and couldn't stomach a new but realistic life.....makes me laugh.
Personally, its a great experience to look back. We didn't leave the UK begrudgingly and when the time is right we will be happy to go back home having had this experience. If another opportunity to travel somewhere crops up, then I know we will have benefited from the experience.
If we get chance to do another 2-3yrs, we'll move on happy.
We are approaching 6 years now and to be perfectly honest don't notice a lot of difference. People come, people go. Taxed extra on this, rent down on that.....etc etc,
As above, unfortunately every time I go anywhere (except Friday morning) its rammed.
Malls - always bloody rammed....parking a b
h.Roads - crazy
Petrol Stations - 10min wait, easy
Phone shop - 10+ people in front
Brunch - rammed
Lifts at work - don't even ask!
No exaggeration, maybe I am missing a trick.
I work for a large schools group (not Gems), responsible for Europe, Middle East and South East Asia. Our ME business has out performed both other regions, and we have increased enrolments at all 4 of our UAE schools. Yes I know there are many factors, but we just aren't feeling it right now. Perhaps its a delayed reaction, but that't the reality.
Dubai ain't the place it once was, with crazy packages on offer but there is still decent money to be made if you don't let it all go to your head and live within your means. I think businesses are becoming smart and not offering such packages anymore, and those that had them aren't willing to accept that. Not saying that's everyone, but I know of some who have taken a big cut to stay, and others that thought f*ck it.
For good measure, on the other hand some of our friends who have been here 25+yrs and commented that they feel more people are departing now than 2007/2008. I have to say I do hear of more people leaving now, but then I do know more people then I did 4-5yrs ago. This place will always have a transient expat population.
The place ain't perfect by a long stretch but I don't think many appreciate what it has given them during their time here and I don't always mean financially either. It certainly a safe place to live, weather is mostly great, on the doorstep to many places to travel to, good for families, cars! Many people leave benefiting from doing or having things they wouldn't usually, but still moan because of the situation when leaving - "no the place is boring", "I didn't enjoy it", "Its getting too expensive". etc etc......Bullsh*t! They probably weren't saying that when they were living it up. Just sour because they'd relied on a life that wasn't sustainable, and couldn't stomach a new but realistic life.....makes me laugh.
Personally, its a great experience to look back. We didn't leave the UK begrudgingly and when the time is right we will be happy to go back home having had this experience. If another opportunity to travel somewhere crops up, then I know we will have benefited from the experience.
If we get chance to do another 2-3yrs, we'll move on happy.
Edited by matt_knowles on Saturday 3rd November 19:22
Sure, and don't get me wrong. I did love living in Dubai and would quite happily consider a stint at some point in the future, preferably when the kids have gone to uni. I can see the good points as much as the bad. I've always detested the way some people smack talk Dubai, usually along the lines of "it's soulless, there's nothing to do, it's just desert, etc". I had a blast for 11 years and I think I got the most out of the place, not least of which was spending as much time as humanly possible at the Autodrome and Yas. Trying to replicate a petrolhead lifestyle in the UK has frankly been a ball ache in comparison. It was also a wonderful place for a young family.
But Matt in the post above yours pointed out a couple of things which I think worth considering. If Dubai is apparently as busy as ever in some senses, I think it's because a fewer number of people are providing the same services. Redundancies and the number of people repatriating is higher than '09.
And whilst the following is anecdotal and a sample size of one, one of my friends in particular is a very good case in point: he's been running a super-successful family business and been in the country over 40 years. He is so fed up with the unwillingness of the place to reform that he's finally considering making good on his British citizenship and heading "back" to London (although he's never actually lived here longer than a summer). He's already putting the business on the market, selling off assets, and planning a complete change of geography and business sector. All of his friends are saying if this guy's packing it in, we must be in trouble.
CitySlicker asked what are the hidden charges and penalties. Well, here's another anecdote: a friend of mine is struggling financially and the straw that broke the camel's back for him was when a cop jumped him for crossing the road. No cars around, red traffic light some way down the road, but because he wasn't at a crossing point, he got fined 200 dirhams. He was p/ssed. For him that's it. He can't stay here, it's crippling him financially. His business costs are way too high, and the revenue is non-existent. Another friend has an Indian accountant who stopped his car on the tram tracks. Yeah, I know, dumb, but we're all human and we've all done something silly. He got fined 6000 dirhams! I mean at least make it means tested. That kind of fine wipes the poor guy out.
Banks and utility companies behave with impunity. If you get an unknown charge on your bill, good luck getting it back. When I left in 2012, there was some talk about having an ombudsman for each industry, or a consumer complaints bureau. Clearly nothing happened in the interim. I'm currently in a dispute with my own bank in the UAE and have just decided to write off the charge rather than continue to fight it, and ultimately close the account.
BTW, the rulers to their credit are aware of many of these issues and are in the process of rolling out some changes. But I think it may be too late. Dubai will bounce back, but it has a tendency to experience a more acute degree of boom and bust than more mature economies, which I guess is why some people can be vicious about the place.
But Matt in the post above yours pointed out a couple of things which I think worth considering. If Dubai is apparently as busy as ever in some senses, I think it's because a fewer number of people are providing the same services. Redundancies and the number of people repatriating is higher than '09.
And whilst the following is anecdotal and a sample size of one, one of my friends in particular is a very good case in point: he's been running a super-successful family business and been in the country over 40 years. He is so fed up with the unwillingness of the place to reform that he's finally considering making good on his British citizenship and heading "back" to London (although he's never actually lived here longer than a summer). He's already putting the business on the market, selling off assets, and planning a complete change of geography and business sector. All of his friends are saying if this guy's packing it in, we must be in trouble.
CitySlicker asked what are the hidden charges and penalties. Well, here's another anecdote: a friend of mine is struggling financially and the straw that broke the camel's back for him was when a cop jumped him for crossing the road. No cars around, red traffic light some way down the road, but because he wasn't at a crossing point, he got fined 200 dirhams. He was p/ssed. For him that's it. He can't stay here, it's crippling him financially. His business costs are way too high, and the revenue is non-existent. Another friend has an Indian accountant who stopped his car on the tram tracks. Yeah, I know, dumb, but we're all human and we've all done something silly. He got fined 6000 dirhams! I mean at least make it means tested. That kind of fine wipes the poor guy out.
Banks and utility companies behave with impunity. If you get an unknown charge on your bill, good luck getting it back. When I left in 2012, there was some talk about having an ombudsman for each industry, or a consumer complaints bureau. Clearly nothing happened in the interim. I'm currently in a dispute with my own bank in the UAE and have just decided to write off the charge rather than continue to fight it, and ultimately close the account.
BTW, the rulers to their credit are aware of many of these issues and are in the process of rolling out some changes. But I think it may be too late. Dubai will bounce back, but it has a tendency to experience a more acute degree of boom and bust than more mature economies, which I guess is why some people can be vicious about the place.
Likewise, good post.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people aren't leaving. As I mentioned, a few good friends who have been here alot longer than us comment on the exoudus. For sure, something is happening......I just don't see or feel it. Even now as I type this, I'm at DXB and it's pretty bloody busy. Yes, alot of people come through here, but it just feels normal. As I say, I'm missing a trick because I do actually wish it was quieter.
I think Dubai will be interesting after the Expo for sure. I'll be honest, I never really paid attention to it before but it's built up like some event like the World Cup or Olympics. I think it could well be a ghost town afterwards.
The place is still a developing city. Lots of peaks and troffs to come.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people aren't leaving. As I mentioned, a few good friends who have been here alot longer than us comment on the exoudus. For sure, something is happening......I just don't see or feel it. Even now as I type this, I'm at DXB and it's pretty bloody busy. Yes, alot of people come through here, but it just feels normal. As I say, I'm missing a trick because I do actually wish it was quieter.
I think Dubai will be interesting after the Expo for sure. I'll be honest, I never really paid attention to it before but it's built up like some event like the World Cup or Olympics. I think it could well be a ghost town afterwards.
The place is still a developing city. Lots of peaks and troffs to come.
I can see both sides to this conversation.
(Background, spent my formative years here mid 80's to mid 90's, moved back in 2007, got married here, had first child here, second on the way, work for a US Fortune 100, role is EMEA wide).
My core group of friends is largely unaffected by the current economic climate, at least 3 of them have set up there own businesses in the last 4-5 years, all are doing very well as far as I can tell (that's 3 separate companies), 2 with a growing employee base, 1 is a one man band kind of affair.
Our business is diverse, O&G is the bulk of our regional revenues which have taken a hit, on the flip side our Aerospace is flying (puntastic).
Those of us that are are wage slaves work in a diverse group of sectors, thankfully non retail or hospitality which I know are getting bitten hard at the moment - an unnamed owner/operator that may or may not run the BaA Hotel and an unnamed developer that may or may not have built BK have enforced a 2 week furlough across all staff I heard a couple of weeks back. Our parts of the business that install/service/upgrade into those sectors are doing pretty well though.
I have my first child registered for FS1 Sep 2020, been visiting nurseries for Jan 2019 start this week, the cost of schooling is galling (and my allowance doesn't get anywhere near covering it) but this will be our home for the foreseeable future, as long as I am able to drop at least 25% of my salary into savings I don't see where else I can be that can afford me and the family the same lifestyle etc.
Yes the wife still works which isn't ideal but both our jobs are quite flexible time wise so we never miss anything crucial with the boy.
Roads are still stupidly busy at the wrong times, getting from the office to Ranches can double in time if I miss the 5 minute window before Khamila/Hessa/Umm Suqeim get bumper to bumper.
Backside has fallen out of the rental market which is great for us, saw a 3 bed in Mira being advertised for 110k pa which was unthinkable 2-3 years ago, same units in Ranches can be had for under 150k now.
I do wonder what the next 2-3 years will bring, Nationalisation is going to be a big driver on the private sector here, already affects us a lot in KSA and Oman, but for the time being I am still really really happy to call Dubai home. No idea what value the Expo will add, aside from more resi units to choose from and therefore give increasing value.
Sending money to the UK is incredible at the moment as well, it was 7.2 AED -> 1 GBP when I arrived back in May 2007, makes such a difference.
Friends who come to visit are not so impressed with the cost of a pint however
(Background, spent my formative years here mid 80's to mid 90's, moved back in 2007, got married here, had first child here, second on the way, work for a US Fortune 100, role is EMEA wide).
My core group of friends is largely unaffected by the current economic climate, at least 3 of them have set up there own businesses in the last 4-5 years, all are doing very well as far as I can tell (that's 3 separate companies), 2 with a growing employee base, 1 is a one man band kind of affair.
Our business is diverse, O&G is the bulk of our regional revenues which have taken a hit, on the flip side our Aerospace is flying (puntastic).
Those of us that are are wage slaves work in a diverse group of sectors, thankfully non retail or hospitality which I know are getting bitten hard at the moment - an unnamed owner/operator that may or may not run the BaA Hotel and an unnamed developer that may or may not have built BK have enforced a 2 week furlough across all staff I heard a couple of weeks back. Our parts of the business that install/service/upgrade into those sectors are doing pretty well though.
I have my first child registered for FS1 Sep 2020, been visiting nurseries for Jan 2019 start this week, the cost of schooling is galling (and my allowance doesn't get anywhere near covering it) but this will be our home for the foreseeable future, as long as I am able to drop at least 25% of my salary into savings I don't see where else I can be that can afford me and the family the same lifestyle etc.
Yes the wife still works which isn't ideal but both our jobs are quite flexible time wise so we never miss anything crucial with the boy.
Roads are still stupidly busy at the wrong times, getting from the office to Ranches can double in time if I miss the 5 minute window before Khamila/Hessa/Umm Suqeim get bumper to bumper.
Backside has fallen out of the rental market which is great for us, saw a 3 bed in Mira being advertised for 110k pa which was unthinkable 2-3 years ago, same units in Ranches can be had for under 150k now.
I do wonder what the next 2-3 years will bring, Nationalisation is going to be a big driver on the private sector here, already affects us a lot in KSA and Oman, but for the time being I am still really really happy to call Dubai home. No idea what value the Expo will add, aside from more resi units to choose from and therefore give increasing value.
Sending money to the UK is incredible at the moment as well, it was 7.2 AED -> 1 GBP when I arrived back in May 2007, makes such a difference.
Friends who come to visit are not so impressed with the cost of a pint however
It's interesting to read the posts here and it reflects the huge range in sentiment I have experienced in Dubai recently. As insinuated by others it seems to be related to which market you're exposed to and in what capacity you operate. There are a number of risks to the global macro economic climate and for some reason they seem to be accentuated here. Does anyone have an idea? Over leveraged?
Local economy needs more depth. Skew towards tourism and real estate. Service industries (like financial) are heavily dependent on the success of tourism and real estate. Region dependent on oil prices which in turn affect (federal) government revenues.
Industries other than tourism and RE tend to focus on sales and marketing, e.g. Microsoft. Free zones have a tendency to be RE plays: bring in big brand names and hope the sector flourishes. There was a period in which financial services were genuinely blazing a trail in Dubai, but now we're back to the default position - which is to act as a showroom for innovations that take place elsewhere in the world (tech, financial services and others).
Industries other than tourism and RE tend to focus on sales and marketing, e.g. Microsoft. Free zones have a tendency to be RE plays: bring in big brand names and hope the sector flourishes. There was a period in which financial services were genuinely blazing a trail in Dubai, but now we're back to the default position - which is to act as a showroom for innovations that take place elsewhere in the world (tech, financial services and others).
shirt said:
Well fk me.... good to hear from you nick. Heard you had some ups and downs healthwise, hope all that is behind you now.
Hello Mate! All good thanks.....didn't see so much as my local GP in the UK for 15 years, but had 5 surgeries and countless doctors visits here....must be the water or something!k me.... good to hear from you nick. Heard you had some ups and downs healthwise, hope all that is behind you now. Hope all is well your end?
we should change the thread title to 'is everyone still alive?'
certainly dead in here of late. granted i see a fair few of you regularly through racing and [whisper it] actual friendships but these pages are super quiet.
seems there is much more of a 'scene' here recently though, perhaps we should aim to meet up at one of the coffee / bbq meets. a thread of everyone's current fleet should also be done. no doubt some of us are upping the no. of cylinders, others are upping the no. of baby seats
certainly dead in here of late. granted i see a fair few of you regularly through racing and [whisper it] actual friendships but these pages are super quiet.
seems there is much more of a 'scene' here recently though, perhaps we should aim to meet up at one of the coffee / bbq meets. a thread of everyone's current fleet should also be done. no doubt some of us are upping the no. of cylinders, others are upping the no. of baby seats
shirt said:
we should change the thread title to 'is everyone still alive?'
certainly dead in here of late. granted i see a fair few of you regularly through racing and [whisper it] actual friendships but these pages are super quiet.
seems there is much more of a 'scene' here recently though, perhaps we should aim to meet up at one of the coffee / bbq meets. a thread of everyone's current fleet should also be done. no doubt some of us are upping the no. of cylinders, others are upping the no. of baby seats
Must confess that I was out for a weeks visit recently (my first since May 2018) and this forum had been so quiet that I didn't even bother posting about a meet-up, I met a few old PH friends offline for a beer but apart from that it was a very quiet week.certainly dead in here of late. granted i see a fair few of you regularly through racing and [whisper it] actual friendships but these pages are super quiet.
seems there is much more of a 'scene' here recently though, perhaps we should aim to meet up at one of the coffee / bbq meets. a thread of everyone's current fleet should also be done. no doubt some of us are upping the no. of cylinders, others are upping the no. of baby seats
Whilst I'd like to come back again in many respects, I can't help but feel that the golden years are behind the UAE now and future money making opportunities lie elsewhere.... I'm just not sure where lol
IanUAE said:
I do believe a certain tiger has expanded his pride.
Indeed he has!Currently juggling a 9 day old and 20 month old...
Can't wait to get back to the office on Sunday for some peace and quiet!!
Edit. My cylinder to child ratio is now currently 2:1
I am itching to change, wife is still firmly vetoing a 997.2, I can see something like a Neeesan Batrol in my not too distant future.
Edited by dxbtiger on Thursday 21st March 15:15
just as there seems to be an out flux I`ve been offered a position based in Dubai so need a little advice as to rough budgeting.
Any recommendations on who I can speak to or can someone pm me?
I`d supply beer and a good meal when I`m out 13th-18th April and endless chat about expensive engine rebuilds
Any recommendations on who I can speak to or can someone pm me?
I`d supply beer and a good meal when I`m out 13th-18th April and endless chat about expensive engine rebuilds
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