Whats the cheapest form of racing (other than karting)?

[SmartVenom]

Just seen this advertised on the red dragon website:

http://www.reddragonraceandtrackclub.com/forum/vie...

Car and entries to all next seasons races (7 double headers) for £3750, not sure racing can get much cheaper than that!

[Maldini35]

SmartVenom said:

Just seen this advertised on the red dragon website:

http://www.reddragonraceandtrackclub.com/forum/vie...

Car and entries to all next seasons races (7 double headers) for £3750, not sure racing can get much cheaper than that!

Wow that is a bargain

[Maldini35]

SmartVenom said:

Just seen this advertised on the red dragon website:

http://www.reddragonraceandtrackclub.com/forum/vie...

Car and entries to all next seasons races (7 double headers) for £3750, not sure racing can get much cheaper than that!

Wow that is a bargain

[CDP]

Maldini35 said:

SmartVenom said:

Just seen this advertised on the red dragon website:

http://www.reddragonraceandtrackclub.com/forum/vie...

Car and entries to all next seasons races (7 double headers) for £3750, not sure racing can get much cheaper than that!

Wow that is a bargain

Sounds good. A full year's Locost, MR2, Compact or stock hatch is around 2K. You could probably get into Stock Hatch or MR2 for that kind of money but don't expect to win.

[Count Johnny]

CDP said:

A full year's Locost, MR2, Compact or stock hatch is around 2K. You could probably get into Stock Hatch or MR2 for that kind of money but don't expect to win.

Well, just for the sake of completeness:

750MC Club Membership(2012): £45.00
750MC Registration Fee (2012): £110.00
Locost Entry Fees(2012): £1908.00

plus

Race Car: £???.??
Trailer: £???.??
Getting to Circuit: £???.??
Staying at Circuit: £???.??
Fuel for Race Car: £???.??
Oil for Race Car: £???.??
Tyres for Race Car: £???.??
Servicing Race Car: £???.??
Minor Repairs: £???.??
Major Repairs: £???.??
Crash Damage: £???.??

[CDP]

Count Johnny said:

CDP said:

A full year's Locost, MR2, Compact or stock hatch is around 2K. You could probably get into Stock Hatch or MR2 for that kind of money but don't expect to win.

Well, just for the sake of completeness:

750MC Club Membership(2012): £45.00
750MC Registration Fee (2012): £110.00
Locost Entry Fees(2012): £1908.00

plus

Race Car: £???.??
Trailer: £???.??
Getting to Circuit: £???.??
Staying at Circuit: £???.??
Fuel for Race Car: £???.??
Oil for Race Car: £???.??
Tyres for Race Car: £???.??
Servicing Race Car: £???.??
Minor Repairs: £???.??
Major Repairs: £???.??
Crash Damage: £???.??

You can get a trailer for about 300-500. Just make sure it's not stolen.

I said get into. The MR2 in the advert only includes race entry fees, not the running costs. In my case the drive to Pembry and back cost about £250 in fuel alone.

Staying at the circuit = Tent, motorhome or kipping in the back of the van. I've slept on the garage floor at Silverstone before now.

Oil - change roughly every three weekends so about £100.

Servicing - well I'm sure you have a socket set.

Accident damage - Locost is probably best for this as it's a space frame so it takes a lot to write one off. Most of the time a big hammer will suffice.

A full season in Locost is going to come in at around £4K plus the cost of the car. Classic stock hatch will be similar and you can get cars for around two grand.

[geeks]

Count Johnny said:

Well, just for the sake of completeness:

750MC Club Membership(2012): £45.00
750MC Registration Fee (2012): £110.00
Locost Entry Fees(2012): £1908.00

plus

Race Car: £???.??
Trailer: £???.??
Getting to Circuit: £???.??
Staying at Circuit: £???.??
Fuel for Race Car: £???.??
Oil for Race Car: £???.??
Tyres for Race Car: £???.??
Servicing Race Car: £???.??
Minor Repairs: £???.??
Major Repairs: £???.??
Crash Damage: £???.??

I see what you are saying BUT

Things like:
Race car - a one off cost, ie once you have paid it out you wont have to re-buy next season (sure you can if you want but if you are looking to keep costs down, why would you?)
Trailer - Buying is a one off cost again, also it is possible if you are clever to get it free or very cheap to rent.
Fuel for race car - surely you would need this for any formula?
Tyres - Depending on formula, a set a season
Servicing - We had a guy run a Compact for an entire season this year and all he did was top up the oil half way through, other than that the bonnet was ony ever lifted for scrutineering!
Minor Repairs - Well st happens, thats racing.
Major repairs / Crash Damage - Again accidents happen, surely even in an arrive and drive package there would be some costs associated with totalling a car?

Also that advert states the trailer is not included, so its not arrive and drive, you get the car and race entries paid for, all the other costs you have listed are still required.

So really yeah its cheaper but only for one season and even then only bacuse your race entries are paid for, after next year the costs would be the same...

[CDP]

Count Johnny said:

CDP said:

A full year's Locost, MR2, Compact or stock hatch is around 2K. You could probably get into Stock Hatch or MR2 for that kind of money but don't expect to win.

Well, just for the sake of completeness:

750MC Club Membership(2012): £45.00
750MC Registration Fee (2012): £110.00
Locost Entry Fees(2012): £1908.00

plus

Race Car: £???.??
Trailer: £???.??
Getting to Circuit: £???.??
Staying at Circuit: £???.??
Fuel for Race Car: £???.??
Oil for Race Car: £???.??
Tyres for Race Car: £???.??
Servicing Race Car: £???.??
Minor Repairs: £???.??
Major Repairs: £???.??
Crash Damage: £???.??

Arrive and drive will cost at least twice as much as doing everything yourself as the guy needs to earn a living and factor in all the costs. Possibly a lot more than that. Besides setting up and running the car is just as much part of racing as the on track stuff. Hamilton and Button both used to build their own engines when karting.

[dapearson]

My season in caterham graduates cost £5k all-in, including entry fees, a few test days, fuel, accommodation, tyres, etc.

The car cost £8k and i sold it for slightly more because i did well.

The advantage to running something as light as a caterham is the brake pads (1144s) are £40 and last a whole season. Tyres are £240 per set and can last a season. A minno/clubman trailer is all that's required for towing, with a combined weight of around 1000kg, so can be towed by a normal car (Leon TDI in my case).

[geeks]

dapearson said:

My season in caterham graduates cost £5k all-in, including entry fees, a few test days, fuel, accommodation, tyres, etc.

The car cost £8k and i sold it for slightly more because i did well.

The advantage to running something as light as a caterham is the brake pads (1144s) are £40 and last a whole season. Tyres are £240 per set and can last a season. A minno/clubman trailer is all that's required for towing, with a combined weight of around 1000kg, so can be towed by a normal car (Leon TDI in my case).

That's fairly reasonable! Good point on the tow car as well

[CDP]

dapearson said:

My season in caterham graduates cost £5k all-in, including entry fees, a few test days, fuel, accommodation, tyres, etc.

The car cost £8k and i sold it for slightly more because i did well.

The advantage to running something as light as a caterham is the brake pads (1144s) are £40 and last a whole season. Tyres are £240 per set and can last a season. A minno/clubman trailer is all that's required for towing, with a combined weight of around 1000kg, so can be towed by a normal car (Leon TDI in my case).

So about the same as Locost. Which tyres do you run? We're on Yokohama A539s, scrubbed to 3-4mm and they last all year for about £240 per set.

My Vectra diesel will happily tow the Locost but if you can manage it invest in a van and do a bit of inside to make it more comfortable for a weekend away. Don't bother with accommodation; camping at the circuit is far more fun and convenient. If you like beer and barbecues with your fellow competitors that is.

[dapearson]

geeks said:

That's fairly reasonable! Good point on the tow car as well

I looked at different options before i started and the main thing i didn't have was a huge budget for infrastructure. I had space for a trailer and the car - the minno/clubman trailers fit in a single garage. I needed to be able to use our family car for towing, which also meant i didn't want to have to lug lots of spares/tools around with me.

So that ruled out anything over 800kg because that would break the towing limit. I'm not massively handy mechanically, so i wanted something simple to work on that wouldn't eat through consumables.

Damage was also a consideration. Yes, you can do a "long front" on a caterham and need half the car replacing from the bulkhead forwards (£3k-£5k), but i haven't done one yet. So far all i've done is knock off the odd wing, which are £50-£100 or so to replace, but i've not had anything at all this season.

The downside is the initial cost of the cars.

The way i looked at it, they don't depreciate. You can normally get out if you need to without losing on the car. I opted to pour money into racing rather than into running the car.

[dapearson]

CDP said:

So about the same as Locost. Which tyres do you run? We're on Yokohama A539s, scrubbed to 3-4mm and they last all year for about £240 per set.

My Vectra diesel will happily tow the Locost but if you can manage it invest in a van and do a bit of inside to make it more comfortable for a weekend away. Don't bother with accommodation; camping at the circuit is far more fun and convenient. If you like beer and barbecues with your fellow competitors that is.

Yep. Sounds almost identical!

[CDP]

dapearson said:

CDP said:

So about the same as Locost. Which tyres do you run? We're on Yokohama A539s, scrubbed to 3-4mm and they last all year for about £240 per set.

My Vectra diesel will happily tow the Locost but if you can manage it invest in a van and do a bit of inside to make it more comfortable for a weekend away. Don't bother with accommodation; camping at the circuit is far more fun and convenient. If you like beer and barbecues with your fellow competitors that is.

Yep. Sounds almost identical!

Apart from the "long nose". I had to have the front replaced bulkhead forwards, Procomp rebuilt it for about a third of that to a very high standard. Would that kind of work have to be carried out by Caterham?

[NBW]

SmartVenom said:

Just seen this advertised on the red dragon website:

http://www.reddragonraceandtrackclub.com/forum/vie...

Car and entries to all next seasons races (7 double headers) for £3750, not sure racing can get much cheaper than that!

'Cheap package' but hideous PR for the series if you think how it needs to be packaged to sell it… or not!

The message… ‘build one and never get your money back’

[CDP]

NBW said:

The message… ‘build one and never get your money back’

Isn't that the motto of motor racing?

[SmartVenom]

CDP said:

NBW said:

The message… ‘build one and never get your money back’

Isn't that the motto of motor racing?

Very true!

Let's face it standard advice to anyone starting out is to buy a car that someone else has built it is far cheaper.

[geeks]

Not strictly true, yes its easier to buy pre-built but if you do it right you can make money from building a car and selling it, it does partly depend on the popularity of the formula but if there was no money to gain from building and selling race cars then there wouldn't be companies out there building and selling cars for racers! They make money off the parts not just the labor

[Count Johnny]

geeks said:

Major repairs / Crash Damage - Again accidents happen, surely even in an arrive and drive package there would be some costs associated with totalling a car?

Also that advert states the trailer is not included, so its not arrive and drive, you get the car and race entries paid for, all the other costs you have listed are still required.

So really yeah its cheaper but only for one season and even then only bacuse your race entries are paid for, after next year the costs would be the same...

Who mentioned arrive and drive? The Red Dragon car is merely a cheap car with some entries thrown in thanks, no doubt, to a bit of a deal with the organisers.

Anyway, as CPD says, arrive and drive is much more expensive. I kinda do it this way myself - albeit with my own racing car - so I'm in touch with the costs, and you better believe that accident damage and attributable major mecahnical failures are not usually a part of the 'arrive and drive' package so (unless you have access to large sums of money in a hurry) insurance is another expensive item.

Oh, and I wasn't intimating that the costs that I detailed were peculiar to Locost. I'm just aware that lots of chaps will seize on a headline figure - like a full season's racing for two grand - and kid themselves that all the other costs will, somehow, disappear if you don't think about them.