New Liecence Reg for 2017

New Liecence Reg for 2017

Author
Discussion

77racing

Original Poster:

3,346 posts

186 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
How does the MSA propose to police this new reg does any one know



“Date of implementation: 1st January 2017
9.1.2 Any Driver competing in a vehicle of 0.34bhp/kg or higher (excluding driver weight) and measured at the driven
wheels, with the exception of single seaters as detailed in 9.1.1. above, must be the holder of a Race National ‘A’ licence,
as a minimum.

Sigmamark7

314 posts

160 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
Maybe they will have spies in pubs to listen to us telling our mates how powerful our cars are, then guess how much our cars weigh and its job sorted!!
Or maybe it is just an opportunity to get more revenue, because there was no need previously to upgrade from National B and pay the extra for the National A license, but now there is. Because all of us who race are enormously wealthy, we will hardly notice the additional cost and the MSA will have more of our money to spend making up regulations that will make our racing even more expensive!!
Perhaps I'm just getting more cynical as I get older!

77racing

Original Poster:

3,346 posts

186 months

Sunday 31st July 2016
quotequote all
I think it is being brought in to stop inexperienced novices driving big BHP cars along side professional drivers and drivers who have a lot of track time in a racing environment. I was told that several 24hr races that attract big teams only have Nat "B" requirement. I can see the safety side of things, and to be quite honest if you can't afford an extra £36 then what are you doing driving a big BHP expensive car in the first place. £36 in my world buys me a litre of brake fluid.

BertBert

18,955 posts

210 months

Sunday 31st July 2016
quotequote all
where has it been published? Hadn't seen it.

On the basis that Nat A is just 6 races away from Nat B, it's not going to make any significant difference surely?

Bert

Shaun_E

747 posts

259 months

Monday 1st August 2016
quotequote all
It's caught me out as I've just dipped my toe into the racing world after 10 years of sprinting/hill-climbing in a 260bhp Caterham. I now need to get 6 signatures by the end of the year in order to carry on racing my car next year. The rule doesn't take account of the fact I've been competing in this car for 10 years :-(
I understand the reasoning for the rule but the short notice implementation and the lack of detail behind the regulation is a problem. Does the weight include fuel? Which rolling road (we all know they can vary wildly)? In my opinion, lightweight cars are unfairly penalised by this rule.

BertBert

18,955 posts

210 months

Monday 1st August 2016
quotequote all
Just shows how much attention I have given the blue book, I hadn't even noticed that the limit for single seaters is already 0.5bhp per kg.

Now interestingly, bhp is measured at the crankshaft. The new reg says for non-single seaters, bhp measured at the wheels. That is a contradiction in terms.

So ignoring that, does that mean that 9.1.1 is measured at the crank and 9.1.2 is measured at the wheels? Good old MSA.

Bert

NJH

3,021 posts

208 months

Monday 1st August 2016
quotequote all
It was in an e-mail update from the MSA sent out recently, I guess many people don't bother to read the updates.

BertBert

18,955 posts

210 months

Monday 1st August 2016
quotequote all
NJH said:
It was in an e-mail update from the MSA sent out recently, I guess many people don't bother to read the updates.
Can't find it in my email. I expect it also came out in print as an insert into the MSA mag.

NJH

3,021 posts

208 months

Monday 1st August 2016
quotequote all
Here it is Bert:
https://www.msauk.org/assets/rulechangesjune2016.p...

Link was in an e-mail I got from the MSA titled "Decisions from Motor Sports Council" on the 6th of July. I guess you have to have registered for the e-mails?

BertBert

18,955 posts

210 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
Ah yes, I did get it! Subsumed in a deluge of spam!

ridgey

240 posts

131 months

Monday 8th August 2016
quotequote all
Looks like I need 600kg ballast for next season as I never got any signatures for an upgrade ( never thought I would need a national A )

carl_w

9,155 posts

257 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
ridgey said:
Looks like I need 600kg ballast for next season as I never got any signatures for an upgrade ( never thought I would need a national A )
I believe that if you can provide evidence of having competed in 6 Nat B events (e.g. by having the results sheets) you can submit this in lieu of the signatures.

MG CHRIS

9,077 posts

166 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
Just worked my turbo exocet out with a rough weight of 600kg and 220bhp mines at 0.36bhp so will need a nat a license when I go in for my ards test. But I have 2 maps one at 190bhp which would be under it so could use that and be fine.

What a stupid rule from someone that's looking to get into competitive racing, im currently doing a non msa run sprint series which im hugely enjoying.

Thurbs

2,780 posts

221 months

Wednesday 10th August 2016
quotequote all
I was discussing this with some of the builders which support series and they are confident this will get droped or highly modified before implementation. Many clubs and series are worried about the impact this will have and everyone thinks the MSA haven't really thought this through.

Order66

6,726 posts

248 months

Tuesday 23rd May 2017
quotequote all
Was just about to get into racing in my Caterham. Can't now. Does anyone know if there is any thoughts to an alternative (like sitting an extended ARDS test in the higher-powered car to show the driver is capable?)

BertBert

18,955 posts

210 months

Tuesday 23rd May 2017
quotequote all
Just out of interest, where are you planning to race the 620R?

I guess you need to borrow, rent, buy-then-sell, steal... a lower powered car to do 6 races then upgrade your licence. I'm also thinking it would be a more sensible intro to racing than piling in with a mega-caterham.

Bert

Order66

6,726 posts

248 months

Tuesday 23rd May 2017
quotequote all
BertBert said:
Just out of interest, where are you planning to race the 620R?

I guess you need to borrow, rent, buy-then-sell, steal... a lower powered car to do 6 races then upgrade your licence. I'm also thinking it would be a more sensible intro to racing than piling in with a mega-caterham.

Bert
Had notions of looking at the Scottish Sports and Saloons - not now.

I know what you are saying, but I've done many laps round Knockhill in that car and am completely comfortable with it, so the relative "safety" of something slower is more than offset by familiarity (IMO).

cjslator

25 posts

165 months

Wednesday 24th May 2017
quotequote all
Order66 said:
Had notions of looking at the Scottish Sports and Saloons - not now.

I know what you are saying, but I've done many laps round Knockhill in that car and am completely comfortable with it, so the relative "safety" of something slower is more than offset by familiarity (IMO).
You might be comfortable with the car and circuit but what's to say you'll still be comfortable with it when you're 6 inches away from someone else at 120mph applying corrective steering inputs without lifting because there's a car glued to the rear of your car?

I personally think the rule is 'sensible' to stop novice racing drivers getting in powerful cars until they've proven themselves.

megamaniac

1,057 posts

215 months

Thursday 25th May 2017
quotequote all
No it's a joke. You could race my 50bhp 2cv get the 6 signatures and off you go. In fact you could get 5 and do a marshals day,three weekends and you have a National A.
Very badly thought out,i think an advanced Ards or a National A+ or whatever they would care to call it would make more sense.

Order66

6,726 posts

248 months

Thursday 25th May 2017
quotequote all
megamaniac said:
No it's a joke. You could race my 50bhp 2cv get the 6 signatures and off you go. In fact you could get 5 and do a marshals day,three weekends and you have a National A.
Very badly thought out,i think an advanced Ards or a National A+ or whatever they would care to call it would make more sense.
Yes, this is my thoughts - it would be cheaper to go on some intensive training course to convince someone you are comfortable driving the car involved.
As it stands the cheapest it looks like I can get into racing in the car I want is about £10k (by the time I buy a car, get it to 3+ weekends and race) to plod round at the back of the field in an old FWD XR2. So basically I won't bother. Shame as the series could REALLY do with the numbers.