Yet another which race series thread!
Discussion
I know it's been done to death but I'm having real problems making a decision on which series to join. I was all set for the BMW Nankang compact cup, low entry fees, large grids and very few mods allowed. I looked at a car today and realised there's a fair amount of development that goes on just to be competitive. One example is the front runners are running new tyres every race! It's put me off a bit but it seems you can join a well supported series with a few professional drivers who will still find a way to spend money or an up and coming series where it's more relaxed while everyone finds their feet. I won my last race but I was in a class of four cars!
Can anyone recommend a championship which is well supported but full of genuine club racers and not pseudo race teams?
The last thread on this subject had someone suggest single seaters which piqued my interest. Can anyone recommend a value for money single seater series? Preferably with some figures to boot.
My budget is £10.000 pa for five or six double headers not including extraordinary costs, engine rebuilds, damage etc.
Cheers guys.
Can anyone recommend a championship which is well supported but full of genuine club racers and not pseudo race teams?
The last thread on this subject had someone suggest single seaters which piqued my interest. Can anyone recommend a value for money single seater series? Preferably with some figures to boot.
My budget is £10.000 pa for five or six double headers not including extraordinary costs, engine rebuilds, damage etc.
Cheers guys.
You could have a look at http://www.mr2mk1racing.com/ which is along the similar lines of the Compact Cup - very few mods allowed and the racing is close and competitive. I race in it myself and everyone is really friendly with a proper club racing atmosphere. You don't get anyone buying new tyres for each meeting or trying to buy their way to the front of the grid either. £10k is well within your budget - you could get a seasons arrive and drive for that!
What's the purchase cost?
Have a looks at the MX5 Mk3 SuperCup - good cars and relatively cheap to get parts for. I think there are 3 rounds at each weekend meeting and you wouldn't have to do all the rounds. There is an "A" and "B" race to get all the entrants a race.
The cars are also very useable in other series such as CSCC or 750 Roadsports/ Club Enduro.
As for single seaters, have a look at Monoposto - I reckon a F Ford Duratec would be a great car to run in that and would be cheap to run, or a FFord Zetec. The Mono 1800 series is probably the quickest and most cost effective series going in terms of performance per £
Have a looks at the MX5 Mk3 SuperCup - good cars and relatively cheap to get parts for. I think there are 3 rounds at each weekend meeting and you wouldn't have to do all the rounds. There is an "A" and "B" race to get all the entrants a race.
The cars are also very useable in other series such as CSCC or 750 Roadsports/ Club Enduro.
As for single seaters, have a look at Monoposto - I reckon a F Ford Duratec would be a great car to run in that and would be cheap to run, or a FFord Zetec. The Mono 1800 series is probably the quickest and most cost effective series going in terms of performance per £
North West Sports & Saloons: a multi-class championship, full of genuine club racers.
The championship is north-west based with races at Oulton Park, Anglesey, Cadwell Park, Donington.
Drivers travel from every corner of the country (Essex, Brighton, East Yorkshire, Aberdeen) to compete.
The championship is north-west based with races at Oulton Park, Anglesey, Cadwell Park, Donington.
Drivers travel from every corner of the country (Essex, Brighton, East Yorkshire, Aberdeen) to compete.
Have a look at www.750mc.co.uk clios are close racing big grids and a small list of mods. Then the new BMW 330 Challenge should be good in a year or two only started this year. Or roadsports. Hot hatch I'm out in hot hatch later this month mostly do roadsports. Very friendly club and full of club racers
Check out the Hyundai Coupe Cup for an affordable, close, single-make series.
www.coupecup.rocks
www.facebook.com/racecoupecup
Racing at Thruxton on the 3rd & 4th June which is always spectacular. Arrive & Drives available in fully-prepped cars if you want to try it out...
www.coupecup.rocks
www.facebook.com/racecoupecup
Racing at Thruxton on the 3rd & 4th June which is always spectacular. Arrive & Drives available in fully-prepped cars if you want to try it out...
Edited by MPlb21 on Saturday 13th May 17:36
I'd recommend Production BMW, I've been doing it 5 years and still enjoy it.
I tend to have my car set up at the beginning of the year and other than that it's a case of consumables and servicing, tyres generally last 2 rounds or so but can be sold on ebay easily so sometimes it's better to change them before they're wrecked.
I've always looked after my own car, its a good car with the right suspension and a strong engine and managed a couple of podiums last year having changed from some very worn out suspension (wish I'd done it much earlier), in my mind proofing that you can run towards the front end without the support of a team.
I tend to have my car set up at the beginning of the year and other than that it's a case of consumables and servicing, tyres generally last 2 rounds or so but can be sold on ebay easily so sometimes it's better to change them before they're wrecked.
I've always looked after my own car, its a good car with the right suspension and a strong engine and managed a couple of podiums last year having changed from some very worn out suspension (wish I'd done it much earlier), in my mind proofing that you can run towards the front end without the support of a team.
If it was me I'd be looking at the MX5 Supercup which seems to be getting good entries, some good drivers and cars seem reasonable to buy. I'm not sure on running costs.
Formula Vee is an excellent and competitive place to cut your teeth in a single seater. Cars are cheap compared to a FF1600 car and running costs are very reasonable for what they are. I raced in Vee back in 2001 when I wanted some single seater experience ahead of the FF Festival at Brands. It was great racing and I'm hoping to get out for the 50th Anniversary meeting this year.
FF1600 is classic and can be great but the cars are a little more involved and things like gearboxes and engines are starting to get expensive. A good MK9 Hewland is £3k plus now probably and you are into the realms of changing rations between rounds to keep competitive (not difficult but daunting if you are not mechanically able).
Some of the multi class regional racing can be great and gives you a chance to explore different circuits and series.
Enjoy whatever you choose.
We hire our F Vee and FF1600 cars if you wanted to test to one.
Formula Vee is an excellent and competitive place to cut your teeth in a single seater. Cars are cheap compared to a FF1600 car and running costs are very reasonable for what they are. I raced in Vee back in 2001 when I wanted some single seater experience ahead of the FF Festival at Brands. It was great racing and I'm hoping to get out for the 50th Anniversary meeting this year.
FF1600 is classic and can be great but the cars are a little more involved and things like gearboxes and engines are starting to get expensive. A good MK9 Hewland is £3k plus now probably and you are into the realms of changing rations between rounds to keep competitive (not difficult but daunting if you are not mechanically able).
Some of the multi class regional racing can be great and gives you a chance to explore different circuits and series.
Enjoy whatever you choose.
We hire our F Vee and FF1600 cars if you wanted to test to one.
MPlb21 said:
Check out the Hyundai Coupe Cup for an affordable, close, single-make series.
www.coupecup.rocks
www.facebook.com/racecoupecup
Racing at Thruxton on the 3rd & 4th June which is always spectacular. Arrive & Drives available in fully-prepped cars if you want to try it out...
I've always had my eye on entering this www.coupecup.rocks
www.facebook.com/racecoupecup
Racing at Thruxton on the 3rd & 4th June which is always spectacular. Arrive & Drives available in fully-prepped cars if you want to try it out...
Edited by MPlb21 on Saturday 13th May 17:36
I've been racing for nearly 20 years and I don't think I've come across a series that doesn't have competitors buying an advantage.
From Locost competitors with different diffs for different circuits to GT drivers with carbon sprinkled liberally over the car.
Unfortunately there are always those who simply have more money to do upgrades, setup, testing etc. where others don't.
Once you get into the habit of trying to keep up with the wealthier people on the grid it becomes hard to stop.
All you can do is look for the signs, as you seem to have done. Whatever an organiser does to level the field, someone will usually find a way to circumvent within the rules by the end of the first season but the closer series will stipulate spec parts or keep as much of the car as standard as possible.
I'm hoping that's the case for the C1 series we've just started in, almost everything is standard or club mandated, but endurance racing in 68bhp shopping cars is not for everyone (it is fun though, and cheap).
One thing to avoid though in my opinion is multi class racing if budget is tight. Regulations are necessarily loose and therefore cash can buy you an advantage (for instance the engine lifted straight from a works rally car, the ex touring car shell etc. etc.) - better to go for a regulated, one-make series and accept you're probably never going to be on the front row without spending more than you want to.
From Locost competitors with different diffs for different circuits to GT drivers with carbon sprinkled liberally over the car.
Unfortunately there are always those who simply have more money to do upgrades, setup, testing etc. where others don't.
Once you get into the habit of trying to keep up with the wealthier people on the grid it becomes hard to stop.
All you can do is look for the signs, as you seem to have done. Whatever an organiser does to level the field, someone will usually find a way to circumvent within the rules by the end of the first season but the closer series will stipulate spec parts or keep as much of the car as standard as possible.
I'm hoping that's the case for the C1 series we've just started in, almost everything is standard or club mandated, but endurance racing in 68bhp shopping cars is not for everyone (it is fun though, and cheap).
One thing to avoid though in my opinion is multi class racing if budget is tight. Regulations are necessarily loose and therefore cash can buy you an advantage (for instance the engine lifted straight from a works rally car, the ex touring car shell etc. etc.) - better to go for a regulated, one-make series and accept you're probably never going to be on the front row without spending more than you want to.
And then there's all those guys who are just better drivers (than me that is!)!
Mark Benson said:
I've been racing for nearly 20 years and I don't think I've come across a series that doesn't have competitors buying an advantage.
From Locost competitors with different diffs for different circuits to GT drivers with carbon sprinkled liberally over the car.
Unfortunately there are always those who simply have more money to do upgrades, setup, testing etc. where others don't.
Once you get into the habit of trying to keep up with the wealthier people on the grid it becomes hard to stop.
All you can do is look for the signs, as you seem to have done. Whatever an organiser does to level the field, someone will usually find a way to circumvent within the rules by the end of the first season but the closer series will stipulate spec parts or keep as much of the car as standard as possible.
I'm hoping that's the case for the C1 series we've just started in, almost everything is standard or club mandated, but endurance racing in 68bhp shopping cars is not for everyone (it is fun though, and cheap).
One thing to avoid though in my opinion is multi class racing if budget is tight. Regulations are necessarily loose and therefore cash can buy you an advantage (for instance the engine lifted straight from a works rally car, the ex touring car shell etc. etc.) - better to go for a regulated, one-make series and accept you're probably never going to be on the front row without spending more than you want to.
From Locost competitors with different diffs for different circuits to GT drivers with carbon sprinkled liberally over the car.
Unfortunately there are always those who simply have more money to do upgrades, setup, testing etc. where others don't.
Once you get into the habit of trying to keep up with the wealthier people on the grid it becomes hard to stop.
All you can do is look for the signs, as you seem to have done. Whatever an organiser does to level the field, someone will usually find a way to circumvent within the rules by the end of the first season but the closer series will stipulate spec parts or keep as much of the car as standard as possible.
I'm hoping that's the case for the C1 series we've just started in, almost everything is standard or club mandated, but endurance racing in 68bhp shopping cars is not for everyone (it is fun though, and cheap).
One thing to avoid though in my opinion is multi class racing if budget is tight. Regulations are necessarily loose and therefore cash can buy you an advantage (for instance the engine lifted straight from a works rally car, the ex touring car shell etc. etc.) - better to go for a regulated, one-make series and accept you're probably never going to be on the front row without spending more than you want to.
Mark Benson said:
I've been racing for nearly 20 years and I don't think I've come across a series that doesn't have competitors buying an advantage.
From Locost competitors with different diffs for different circuits to GT drivers with carbon sprinkled liberally over the car.
Unfortunately there are always those who simply have more money to do upgrades, setup, testing etc. where others don't.
Once you get into the habit of trying to keep up with the wealthier people on the grid it becomes hard to stop.
Caterhams. Specifically Graduates. Sure there are people with more money than others, testing more often, tuition, more frequent engine refreshes... but the cars and parts are technically identical. There isn't any cheating. Guess what- the cream always rises to the top over a season. The best driver would at least score a podium in the very worst car (which probably hasn't had any money spent on it in a few years). Competitors are limited to three sets of tyres per season. Engines are sealed. Part numbers specified. Minimum weights and other technical checks performed. From Locost competitors with different diffs for different circuits to GT drivers with carbon sprinkled liberally over the car.
Unfortunately there are always those who simply have more money to do upgrades, setup, testing etc. where others don't.
Once you get into the habit of trying to keep up with the wealthier people on the grid it becomes hard to stop.
After the last race I finished, for example, the eligibility scrutineer checked that all of our handbrakes worked.
All that is just gravy really, because the best thing about the club is the friendliness.
Yup, this was going to be my point too! I have seen guys (good drivers) throw mega money at close one make championships only to be soundly beaten by a very talented guy running on a shoestring.
Just because someone is quicker than you, don't always assume they're spending more money, or cheating. They may very well just be better than you.
/2p
Dan
Just because someone is quicker than you, don't always assume they're spending more money, or cheating. They may very well just be better than you.
/2p
Dan
BertBert said:
And then there's all those guys who are just better drivers (than me that is!)!
Mark Benson said:
I've been racing for nearly 20 years and I don't think I've come across a series that doesn't have competitors buying an advantage.
From Locost competitors with different diffs for different circuits to GT drivers with carbon sprinkled liberally over the car.
Unfortunately there are always those who simply have more money to do upgrades, setup, testing etc. where others don't.
Once you get into the habit of trying to keep up with the wealthier people on the grid it becomes hard to stop.
All you can do is look for the signs, as you seem to have done. Whatever an organiser does to level the field, someone will usually find a way to circumvent within the rules by the end of the first season but the closer series will stipulate spec parts or keep as much of the car as standard as possible.
I'm hoping that's the case for the C1 series we've just started in, almost everything is standard or club mandated, but endurance racing in 68bhp shopping cars is not for everyone (it is fun though, and cheap).
One thing to avoid though in my opinion is multi class racing if budget is tight. Regulations are necessarily loose and therefore cash can buy you an advantage (for instance the engine lifted straight from a works rally car, the ex touring car shell etc. etc.) - better to go for a regulated, one-make series and accept you're probably never going to be on the front row without spending more than you want to.
From Locost competitors with different diffs for different circuits to GT drivers with carbon sprinkled liberally over the car.
Unfortunately there are always those who simply have more money to do upgrades, setup, testing etc. where others don't.
Once you get into the habit of trying to keep up with the wealthier people on the grid it becomes hard to stop.
All you can do is look for the signs, as you seem to have done. Whatever an organiser does to level the field, someone will usually find a way to circumvent within the rules by the end of the first season but the closer series will stipulate spec parts or keep as much of the car as standard as possible.
I'm hoping that's the case for the C1 series we've just started in, almost everything is standard or club mandated, but endurance racing in 68bhp shopping cars is not for everyone (it is fun though, and cheap).
One thing to avoid though in my opinion is multi class racing if budget is tight. Regulations are necessarily loose and therefore cash can buy you an advantage (for instance the engine lifted straight from a works rally car, the ex touring car shell etc. etc.) - better to go for a regulated, one-make series and accept you're probably never going to be on the front row without spending more than you want to.
djroadboy said:
Yup, this was going to be my point too! I have seen guys (good drivers) throw mega money at close one make championships only to be soundly beaten by a very talented guy running on a shoestring.
Just because someone is quicker than you, don't always assume they're spending more money, or cheating. They may very well just be better than you.
/2p
Dan
This is true and I don't disagree with either of you, in all walks of life there are going to be people who are better than you in some way.Just because someone is quicker than you, don't always assume they're spending more money, or cheating. They may very well just be better than you.
/2p
Dan
BertBert said:
And then there's all those guys who are just better drivers (than me that is!)!
Mark Benson said:
I've been racing for nearly 20 years and I don't think I've come across a series that doesn't have competitors buying an advantage.
From Locost competitors with different diffs for different circuits to GT drivers with carbon sprinkled liberally over the car.
Unfortunately there are always those who simply have more money to do upgrades, setup, testing etc. where others don't.
Once you get into the habit of trying to keep up with the wealthier people on the grid it becomes hard to stop.
All you can do is look for the signs, as you seem to have done. Whatever an organiser does to level the field, someone will usually find a way to circumvent within the rules by the end of the first season but the closer series will stipulate spec parts or keep as much of the car as standard as possible.
I'm hoping that's the case for the C1 series we've just started in, almost everything is standard or club mandated, but endurance racing in 68bhp shopping cars is not for everyone (it is fun though, and cheap).
One thing to avoid though in my opinion is multi class racing if budget is tight. Regulations are necessarily loose and therefore cash can buy you an advantage (for instance the engine lifted straight from a works rally car, the ex touring car shell etc. etc.) - better to go for a regulated, one-make series and accept you're probably never going to be on the front row without spending more than you want to.
From Locost competitors with different diffs for different circuits to GT drivers with carbon sprinkled liberally over the car.
Unfortunately there are always those who simply have more money to do upgrades, setup, testing etc. where others don't.
Once you get into the habit of trying to keep up with the wealthier people on the grid it becomes hard to stop.
All you can do is look for the signs, as you seem to have done. Whatever an organiser does to level the field, someone will usually find a way to circumvent within the rules by the end of the first season but the closer series will stipulate spec parts or keep as much of the car as standard as possible.
I'm hoping that's the case for the C1 series we've just started in, almost everything is standard or club mandated, but endurance racing in 68bhp shopping cars is not for everyone (it is fun though, and cheap).
One thing to avoid though in my opinion is multi class racing if budget is tight. Regulations are necessarily loose and therefore cash can buy you an advantage (for instance the engine lifted straight from a works rally car, the ex touring car shell etc. etc.) - better to go for a regulated, one-make series and accept you're probably never going to be on the front row without spending more than you want to.
But the OP was asking if there are any series where money won't buy you as much of an advantage (at least that's how I read it) and unfortunately I think those series are few and far between. If you have a budget you simply need to make the most of what you have and not go chasing the podiums if you're not the driver with a huge bag of talent to dip into.
Mark Benson said:
This is true and I don't disagree with either of you, in all walks of life there are going to be people who are better than you in some way.
But the OP was asking if there are any series where money won't buy you as much of an advantage (at least that's how I read it) and unfortunately I think those series are few and far between. If you have a budget you simply need to make the most of what you have and not go chasing the podiums if you're not the driver with a huge bag of talent to dip into.
So, wait- you're saying forget about podium aspirations unless you have a limitless budget and a natural born god-given sack of talent? But the OP was asking if there are any series where money won't buy you as much of an advantage (at least that's how I read it) and unfortunately I think those series are few and far between. If you have a budget you simply need to make the most of what you have and not go chasing the podiums if you're not the driver with a huge bag of talent to dip into.
You've been choosing the wrong series pal.
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