Spire GT3 RGB Racer

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Discussion

rdodger

1,060 posts

147 months

Thursday 16th August 2018
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Great footage!

You looked really determined you were going to spin :-)


Sounds like you need to have a good look over the suspension before the next race and make sure it's all free to do it's thing.

Is it bushes binding, drop links, worn/damaged shocks?

Yazza54

Original Poster:

15,802 posts

125 months

Thursday 16th August 2018
quotequote all
Hi mate, well the ARB mounts were over tight with bolts only just long enough so they had to be nipped for the nut to stay on. We fitted longer bolts with nyloc nuts and greased everything, nipped all 4 bolts them went round all 4 evenly backing them off a quarter of a turn until it would fall with ease under it's own weight.

The other issue is the shocks themselves which I've sent to protech this morning. I'd been running way more preload than I should've been to overcome these stiction issues which made the front way too stiff, basically compounding the problem. With the shocks off everything is moving lovely and freely so that's at least a positive.

Another issue with regard to the high speed stability is that my diffuser is not fixed securely enough, it's actually just hung on cables - everyone else's is fixed solidly. Plus my whole front splitter / mounting needs a good look at as it just flexes under the slightest bit of weight meaning I can't be getting much downforce out of it. The chaps from Mittell can stand on theirs no bother at all, mine would surely break. Lots to do and we're already on with it... Pop up sometime if you're in the area Rog.

SoftwareSorcerer

436 posts

193 months

Thursday 16th August 2018
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Yazza54 said:
Hi guys

Second race weekend now under my belt this time at Silverstone on the international circuit.

Saturday night was great, we were all in the garages for the presentations & Drew and his new wife Susie put on a spread which was brill. There is a fantastic comeraderie in RGB that isn't seen much elsewhere in the paddock...
Good race mate, glad you enjoyed the evening too! Not every day a chap can start his honeymoon racing with mates at Silverstone, was very happy to have you all there.

SoftwareSorcerer

436 posts

193 months

Thursday 16th August 2018
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Yazza54 said:
Another issue with regard to the high speed stability is that my diffuser is not fixed securely enough, it's actually just hung on cables - everyone else's is fixed solidly. Plus my whole front splitter / mounting needs a good look at as it just flexes under the slightest bit of weight meaning I can't be getting much downforce out of it. The chaps from Mittell can stand on theirs no bother at all, mine would surely break. Lots to do and we're already on with it...
Told you before - don't worry too much about getting that diffuser on solid mounts, it has low pressure underneath and high pressure above it; the cables are always under tension. I know you'll want to change it, but make it the last job!

Sorting the front splitter is going to be much more important. I hadn't realised it was flexing so much - it's just ply, yes? What thickness? How is it fixed? You should certainly be able to stand on it without it breaking - I stand on mine regularly. It's held on by 9 off M8 fasteners, with flanged button heads under the car. The fixings are plenty man enough to hold my weight (or your weight, come to that), so are you talking about just the splitter material breaking?


Yazza54

Original Poster:

15,802 posts

125 months

Thursday 16th August 2018
quotequote all
The frame itself off the crash box is just too flimsy, we've got some new board to make a new splitter from but the main advantage will be from the supports/fixings. The brackets that come down are bolted through probably the weakest part of the crash box and the rest of the crash box is strong as anything and double skinned, so we'll probably rework what's already there and add to it somewhat. If I stood on it I reckon it'd just rip out of the crash box as it is at the moment.

I agree on the diffuser but it's a quick job and at least then it should withstand a knock better. The cables didn't take the bump well at all, granted they have give in them but they ended up dropping it to the floor. I will keep the cables for edge supports but use rods near the centre.

rdodger

1,060 posts

147 months

Thursday 16th August 2018
quotequote all
Yazza54 said:
Hi mate, well the ARB mounts were over tight with bolts only just long enough so they had to be nipped for the nut to stay on. We fitted longer bolts with nyloc nuts and greased everything, nipped all 4 bolts them went round all 4 evenly backing them off a quarter of a turn until it would fall with ease under it's own weight.

The other issue is the shocks themselves which I've sent to protech this morning. I'd been running way more preload than I should've been to overcome these stiction issues which made the front way too stiff, basically compounding the problem. With the shocks off everything is moving lovely and freely so that's at least a positive.

Another issue with regard to the high speed stability is that my diffuser is not fixed securely enough, it's actually just hung on cables - everyone else's is fixed solidly. Plus my whole front splitter / mounting needs a good look at as it just flexes under the slightest bit of weight meaning I can't be getting much downforce out of it. The chaps from Mittell can stand on theirs no bother at all, mine would surely break. Lots to do and we're already on with it... Pop up sometime if you're in the area Rog.
Sounds like you have it under control.

I will have to get a pass and come up for a look soon.

SoftwareSorcerer

436 posts

193 months

Friday 17th August 2018
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Yazza54 said:
The frame itself off the crash box is just too flimsy, we've got some new board to make a new splitter from but the main advantage will be from the supports/fixings. The brackets that come down are bolted through probably the weakest part of the crash box and the rest of the crash box is strong as anything and double skinned, so we'll probably rework what's already there and add to it somewhat. If I stood on it I reckon it'd just rip out of the crash box as it is at the moment.
Got you. It can easily generate well over 600N of downforce, so really needs to be able to support someone 80kg+ with ease. Better brackets then! They were measuring splitters for compliance after race 2 at Silverstone, so don't forget to make it to the max size allowed but no more.


Yazza54 said:
I agree on the diffuser but it's a quick job and at least then it should withstand a knock better. The cables didn't take the bump well at all, granted they have give in them but they ended up dropping it to the floor. I will keep the cables for edge supports but use rods near the centre.
Sounds like a plan.


Yazza54

Original Poster:

15,802 posts

125 months

Wednesday 12th September 2018
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Update from Anglesey

It was an odd weekend, there were barely any cars on the test day and not many more there for race day which left a bit of a hollow feel to it, there was only RGB and club Enduro in attendance. I called the track and they confirmed there would be lots of testing time available on the Friday so I decided to get there a little later and get a decent sleep for once.

We arrived around 11 still with plenty of testing time left in the day, got out for about 8 mins or so of the last session of the morning and got to see which way the track went. After lunch I got out again and managed maybe another 10 mins before my quaife diff st itself. At this point all I can say was that I knew the general layout of the track and felt fairly quick although I was struggling with understeer.

The diff has an in built reverse and it later transpired that it had some how managed to try and jump to reverse as I was driving forwards. Cue a big clatter and loss of drive.

We found on inspection that an inner CV joint had failed but when we fixed that there was still no drive... So the diff going caused the CV to fail... Causing us to inspect the diff...

We removed it and Tim Gray managed to fix it for us which was a massive help especially when he had enough going on with the guys he was running! Tim finished the diff probably around 9.30pm and I finished refitting it to the car around 11pm or so. I had a wander round and Tim was still under another competitors car which had an off previously, you can't fault the man's work ethic..!

So Saturday came around and I was still totally green to the track and to add to that it was absolutely soaking. Luckily with the meeting being quite scarce we benefitted from a practice session before quali.

I went out with pretty much a dry setup with the wet tyres on and registered the 4th quickest time in the practice.

Qualifying came around and I basically did the same time more or less, but a couple went quicker, putting me in 6th.

The first race was the same conditions wise, very wet. Had horrendous understeer in/oversteer out again which is typical of the wet anyway but not helped by my suspension not working properly - more on that later.

We softened the car up and it actually felt worse than before on what would be classed as a dry setup. There seem to be 2 schools of thought, soften the car off to make it more compliant, or leave it alone and just fit the wets on the basis that you want to work the tyres and softening the car too much won't do that and subsequently won't built heat into them..... Ended 7th, was a fairly uneventful race. I was a bit too tentative on the first lap, there wasn't even a warm up lap, straight out of assembly area onto a sodden track. The others we simply much more committed than me but it is my first wet race after all. A few people mentioned that vision would be somewhat impaired, but it was much worse than that... Going down the back straight on the first lap behind 6 other cars meant I was completely blinded.

Second race was completely dry after the 3 hour club Enduro race did a good job of clearing the damp. Back to the full dry setup, got a decent start but had to back out of it before the first corner as James walker in front of me had a pretty big tank slapper into another car in front which actually straightened him back out. I tried to push after that, got tagged on the rear on the first lap and lost touch with Mark betts in front and was pushing just enough to keep Jonathan McGill behind. Was a very lonely race.

I was finding that the more I pushed the front would just wash out, I had massive understeer in and oversteer out, trying to get on the power with far too much lock still on that needed getting rid of. The only way I managed to get it round in a respectable manner and time was to trail brake right to the Apex. Hard work, especially when so much of the track is slow and non flowing. Ended in 7th again with a best time well in the 1.11s, the race was sadly red flagged as Jonathan McGill who was running behind me had a fire.

Since leaving Anglesey I've been trying to figure out why the hell I had so much understeer and then it hit me - I've had my shocks modified. The only way I could tighten the car mid turn was to let off the throttle to throw weight forward/stop pushing the front. I had the shocks modified to reduce stiction and give a more usable window of adjustment as they are over damped as standard for this cars weight on the front .... but they went too far with the mod and I've effectively lost all my rebound damping, meaning as soon as I release the brakes the nose just jumps straight up, unloading the front tyres, even at full rebound.

Shocks are coming off tomorrow and going back for the issue to be rectified... Bit miffed as this was a major hindrance, but at least it can be sorted before snetterton on the 13th October.

It wasn't all doom and gloom, though - the modifications we've done to the splitter, diffuser and bodywork have certainly worked, the car was much more stable at speed... But there aren't many places to make the most of that at Anglesey.

Unfortunately no videos this time, my camera was playing up all weekend, I doubt there would be anything too interesting on there either!


Edited by Yazza54 on Thursday 13th September 06:31


Edited by Yazza54 on Thursday 13th September 08:57

Yazza54

Original Poster:

15,802 posts

125 months

Tuesday 9th October 2018
quotequote all
Cars all ready, suspension sorted etc. Final race of the year at Snetterton this Saturday, come and say hi thumbup

Yazza54

Original Poster:

15,802 posts

125 months

Sunday 14th October 2018
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This weekend closed out the racing season for us at Snetterton, on the 200 circuit.

We arrived Friday morning for testing and set up for the day. Straight away we had noise issues, turned out the exhaust had lost a lot of its wadding. It has always been a loud car so in all honesty it's hard to notice it getting incrementally louder..! There was also a degree of confusion between some of us drivers about what the noise limits should be.

As it's a proper MSA test day and our cars are sports racing cars we should've been tested under normal race limits and it was stated there was no particular drive by noise limit in the test day instructions... but it seems this went out of the window and they made up their own rules. Arguing gets you nowhere so we just got on with repacking it and stuck the baffle in for good measure to shut it up some more, at the expense of some performance, but it was only a test day after all.

So finally got all that out of the way and got out for some fun, never driven the track before apart from on the playstation and a handful of laps on a bike, so needed the track time. This is where the next annoyance of the day came abundantly clear, we had been grouped together with locosts, which are a X flow powered 7 type kit car... it's not their fault but they are a hell of a lot slower than us and it just completely ruined the test day, no doubt for us and them. It was impossible to get a clear lap in without traffic, I've had less traffic and more value for money out of a track day for non licence holders.

We made a few tweaks to the car and was generally quite happy with how it felt, especially now the dampers are working properly. It's still a bit understeery at low speed, albeit no where near as bad, but much better in the faster stuff. Had a play around with my new Aim Solo 2, cracking bit of kit. Dead easy to use and the information is invaluable knowing in real time what I was gaining or losing against my best lap was an instant edge especially for learning a new track as you see straight away what works and what doesn't.

So onto qualifying, left the car alone from testing for once and into quali.. managed to get 6th for race 1 and 5th for race 2, race 1 is off your best lap and race 2 is off your second best. Luckily I'd done a string of laps very close to each other whereas some of the guys only did one good one. The car felt good in the bends but I was struggling for top speed, the best I was seeing was generally 128-129mph which is rather poor for Snetterton and it hurts a fair bit, a lot of the guys were in the realms of 132-133 mph.

First race - had an absolute shocker. Each time out I lose too much time at the start being tentative on cold tyres, so I was determined to stick with the front pack as best as I could. I managed to do this but coming out of Coram braking for the last corner on the first lap I suffered a lock up on the front brakes, I was a passenger at this point and it fired me across the last corner where I subsequently tagged John Cutmore as he was exiting the corner.

Luckily there was not a great deal of damage to either car, actually none to mine .. (sorry John!) and both got back out for race 2. I was mortified and still am, regardless of how much people tell you that these things happen, I felt terrible and it really knocked my confidence on the cold tyres. It was completely my fault but I couldn't help wonder who made the decision to give the Clios and Formula Vee's warm up laps, but thought letting the fastest cars there go straight out of the garages and onto the grid was a good idea...

For race 2 I started 4th, so there I am, still with the novice cross on the back, starting on the outside of row 2... Got an absolutely great start and lead into the first corner but as I was on the outside I knew that I was going to get stuffed up the inside, and I did. I was also a bit knocked for confidence on the stone cold tyres after what happened earlier in the day and ended up back in 5th rather quickly. From there it was a rather lonely race, I was managing a gap back to John Whatley in 6th for a while until his ECU fuse blew and put him out and then it was just a case of running round at a decent pace without tripping myself up. The gap to John Cutmore in 4th wasn't really growing but I couldn't make in-roads either, and eventually I just decided that I should be happy where I was... and that was that!

Came in and got weighed - 10kg over the limit at 590KG. Car needs to go on a serious diet over winter. Yeah, the car. We also have some ideas how to reduce drag, plus I later found out I was a way out on my gearing and was basically revving the car considerably past peak where it's tailing off and you can see the accelleration curve almost flatline on the GPS info from the Aim solo. To be 3-4mph down on a track like Snetterton, or anywhere for that matter, just kills you. The corners are still where most time is lost on any circuit but you obviously want as much outright speed as you can get, after all it requires absolutely no skill to drive fast in a straight line..!

All in all 5th place was very respectable and all the cars ahead were the new breed of RGB car, at probably 3x the cost of mine. I also picked up 1st in the sporting cup which is for the highest placed person who hasn't finished in the top 3 that season, I'd already had a 2nd and 3rd so it was nice to complete the set!

Here is a onboard of my fastest lap from race 2, not as quick as my qualifying lap but I only ever fit the camera for the races

https://youtu.be/WPvO96eu2Q0




Edited by Yazza54 on Friday 7th December 13:06

Yazza54

Original Poster:

15,802 posts

125 months

Monday 15th October 2018
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Some footage through bomb hole in quali. Most of us start pushing on after a few laps.

https://youtu.be/3Md0gfQyHqs

Yazza54

Original Poster:

15,802 posts

125 months

Sunday 9th December 2018
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Car is now available for purchase and advertised on PH & race cars direct.

Not leaving RGB though

Yazza54

Original Poster:

15,802 posts

125 months

Tuesday 8th January
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Update for the 2019 season ahead...

Great calendar this year, made up to see Oulton Park in the line up which is the only track remotely local to me and in my opinion one of the best tracks in the UK.



I'm also very pleased to be able to confirm that I will be racing a works Spire GT3S next year, Billy Albones 2017 championship winning car, which also won a number of races in 2018 before he was given a new car with some minor updates.. very much looking forward to doing some testing and getting to grips with it.







Edited by Yazza54 on Tuesday 8th January 13:00

Krikkit

15,700 posts

125 months

Tuesday 8th January
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Very nice, did you manage to sell your old car then? I see they're both up on racecarsdirect. biggrin

Shame the Anglesy round is on the Le Mans weekend - I'm only in Chester, so would've come down to see a PHer racing. I'll have to try and make the season-finale Oulton instead.

Yazza54

Original Poster:

15,802 posts

125 months

Tuesday 8th January
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
Very nice, did you manage to sell your old car then? I see they're both up on racecarsdirect. biggrin

Shame the Anglesy round is on the Le Mans weekend - I'm only in Chester, so would've come down to see a PHer racing. I'll have to try and make the season-finale Oulton instead.
Ha yes they are, my blue one I still have but the new year has sparked new interest and I'm confident it'll sell as it's well priced as competitive as I've demonstrated.

The new one just hasn't been taken off RCD yet but is well and truely spoken for thumbup

Great stuff, I will be at every round so pop along!

snowen250

934 posts

127 months

Tuesday 8th January
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Love this series, never miss the round at Brands so il certainly be there for the season opener.

Yazza54

Original Poster:

15,802 posts

125 months

Tuesday 8th January
quotequote all
snowen250 said:
Love this series, never miss the round at Brands so il certainly be there for the season opener.
Brill. Say hi!

BertBert

12,813 posts

155 months

Wednesday 9th January
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I didn't see the thread as it was written, but really enjoyed the write-up, great stuff.

So a race win on the cards in 2019? What are the grids likely to be in 2019?

Will car 6 from that pic might have some scrutineering issues with his roll hoop extension in 2019?

Bert

Yazza54

Original Poster:

15,802 posts

125 months

Wednesday 9th January
quotequote all
BertBert said:
I didn't see the thread as it was written, but really enjoyed the write-up, great stuff.

So a race win on the cards in 2019? What are the grids likely to be in 2019?

Will car 6 from that pic might have some scrutineering issues with his roll hoop extension in 2019?

Bert
Hi Bert

Thanks for your kind words and I'm pleased you enjoyed the write up. I do wonder if anyone's bothering to read this sometimes but maybe initially posting it up in readers cars was the mistake!

I will be more confident once I've tested the car, all I know is that the lap times it's done speak for themselves but that was obviously with someone else at the wheel, but at least I know the car is capable... So no excuses, I don't think a bit of pressure is bad though and I wanted to be in a position where I had all the tools to win. I'm confident I'll be more competitive, how much more is yet to be seen!

Certainly buying this car is popping my head above the parapet and people will be watching and expecting results, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't expect that too, so it doesn't really add to the pressure so much. Can only do my best!

Grids are looking around 20 cars, some rounds may well be more, generally I'm hoping that to be about the minimum.

I've no idea to tell you the truth - have they written in something specific about extensions? (MSUK haven't bothered sending a new blue book so I've no idea!!) I actually thought they were non compliant already but the scrutes never seem to bat an eye.

Cheers

alfie2244

11,012 posts

132 months

Wednesday 9th January
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I enjoy reading them thumbup