How to get into Grass roots motorsport?
Discussion
Hi,
Looking for advice on where to even begin getting into Grass routes motorsport.
At this stage no car purchased but thinking a car circa £1500.
Whats the best way to get into a small racing series as a novice? Also rough examples of cost would be great.
Do you need a racing licence??
Open to all options - rallying/circuit/hill climb etc.
...complete novice so all advise is appreciated. I am new to the site so apologies if this has been asked before.
Looking for advice on where to even begin getting into Grass routes motorsport.
At this stage no car purchased but thinking a car circa £1500.
Whats the best way to get into a small racing series as a novice? Also rough examples of cost would be great.
Do you need a racing licence??
Open to all options - rallying/circuit/hill climb etc.
...complete novice so all advise is appreciated. I am new to the site so apologies if this has been asked before.
Hi,
It's quite a wide-ranging question, and it's always hard to make the first step.
But there are a lot of types of motorsport that you can do with a standard/cheap car and don't need a competition licence:
Autotests - manoeuvrability tests around cones in car parks or grass fields
Autosolos - like autotests but faster / more open
Navigational / 12 car night rallies - navigational-focussed rallies on public roads, with a time schedule
Targa Road Rallies - a bit of a combination of Autosolos and Navigational Rallies, in the day time.
Production Car Trials - tricky / slippy / hilly tests where slow speed skill counts
I've just bought a standard Suzuki Ignis for £400 which could easily do any of those.
The usual advice is to get along to your local motor club meeting (one near you might be Stockport 061 - they are on Facebook) and chat with people. It's probably a good idea to help out at an event or two by marshalling (or buddying an existing marshal) to see what you like, before committing to buying a car. Always expect to start at the back of the field and move slowly forward as you get more experienced. It's not always the best car that wins.
What work for me was:
Age 5 to about 18 - spectating then marshalling
Age 18-19 - marshalling and doing table top navigation with the Uni motor club
Age 19 - navigated on my first 12 Car, enjoyed it, got to know people, helped out here and there, got asked to navigate more and more
Age 20 - got asked to navigate on a stage rally to stand in for someone who couldn't make it
Age 20-40 - navigated on lots of stage rallies up to British Championship level
Age 40 - bought my own rally car and drove on about 20 events
Now, nearly 50, I'm involved in organising rallies, retired from stage rally competition but looking to do some 12 Cars and Targas driving the Ignis.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
It's quite a wide-ranging question, and it's always hard to make the first step.
But there are a lot of types of motorsport that you can do with a standard/cheap car and don't need a competition licence:
Autotests - manoeuvrability tests around cones in car parks or grass fields
Autosolos - like autotests but faster / more open
Navigational / 12 car night rallies - navigational-focussed rallies on public roads, with a time schedule
Targa Road Rallies - a bit of a combination of Autosolos and Navigational Rallies, in the day time.
Production Car Trials - tricky / slippy / hilly tests where slow speed skill counts
I've just bought a standard Suzuki Ignis for £400 which could easily do any of those.
The usual advice is to get along to your local motor club meeting (one near you might be Stockport 061 - they are on Facebook) and chat with people. It's probably a good idea to help out at an event or two by marshalling (or buddying an existing marshal) to see what you like, before committing to buying a car. Always expect to start at the back of the field and move slowly forward as you get more experienced. It's not always the best car that wins.
What work for me was:
Age 5 to about 18 - spectating then marshalling
Age 18-19 - marshalling and doing table top navigation with the Uni motor club
Age 19 - navigated on my first 12 Car, enjoyed it, got to know people, helped out here and there, got asked to navigate more and more
Age 20 - got asked to navigate on a stage rally to stand in for someone who couldn't make it
Age 20-40 - navigated on lots of stage rallies up to British Championship level
Age 40 - bought my own rally car and drove on about 20 events
Now, nearly 50, I'm involved in organising rallies, retired from stage rally competition but looking to do some 12 Cars and Targas driving the Ignis.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
Also look here..... this is the MSA's (governing body) portal for newcomers:
http://www.gomotorsport.net/
http://www.gomotorsport.net/
thepawbroon said:
Also look here..... this is the MSA's (governing body) portal for newcomers:
http://www.gomotorsport.net/
Your local MSA regional development officer is Heidi Woodcock, of Clitheroe and district Motor Club, she is excellent. Grass roots Motor Sport is very easy to get into and as advised earlier joining an MSA motor Club is the place to start.http://www.gomotorsport.net/
Another useful website is this one, reading the events, the championships, the clubs involved and the reports you can get a feel for what is going on and which clubs are doing what in the Manchester area. Some clubs tend to be heavy on Rallying, where others might be more into Car Trials or Autotests.
http://sd34msg.org.uk/
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/allabout.asp#M...
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/docs/getstarte...
Hi,
Couple of links re; hillclimbing and sprinting above.
You can compete in your road going car with a few mods to try it out- links above tell you
more than I can !
Obviously you will need personal safety gear also but that will be needed for
any competitive motorsport event .
Always check what tyres are allowed also, before leaving home, as they may vary from venue
to venue. Not sure about this - especially in road class - so please check.
Licence is a non race national B i think - about £37 at the moment according to Harewood Hillclimb site below
giving some info/contact details etc.
http://www.harewoodhill.com/competitors/
There are also 4 driving school days at Harewood in 2018 - listed on site above on left of
page. Don't believe you need a competition licence for these and you use your road car as
far as I am aware - full info is on the Harewood site with day's schedule - which also has info on
joining the BARC.
Anyway, have a look, plenty of info on those sites -can be a cheapish way to start without
any other cars on track at the same time
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/docs/getstarte...
Hi,
Couple of links re; hillclimbing and sprinting above.
You can compete in your road going car with a few mods to try it out- links above tell you
more than I can !
Obviously you will need personal safety gear also but that will be needed for
any competitive motorsport event .
Always check what tyres are allowed also, before leaving home, as they may vary from venue
to venue. Not sure about this - especially in road class - so please check.
Licence is a non race national B i think - about £37 at the moment according to Harewood Hillclimb site below
giving some info/contact details etc.
http://www.harewoodhill.com/competitors/
There are also 4 driving school days at Harewood in 2018 - listed on site above on left of
page. Don't believe you need a competition licence for these and you use your road car as
far as I am aware - full info is on the Harewood site with day's schedule - which also has info on
joining the BARC.
Anyway, have a look, plenty of info on those sites -can be a cheapish way to start without
any other cars on track at the same time
Edited by classicfred on Saturday 23 December 02:41
Edited by classicfred on Saturday 23 December 02:44
Just a note to point out that Safety gear isn’t required for the majority of ‘grass roots’ motorsport. Events mentioned like Autotests, Autosolos, Car Trials, 12 Car Rallies, Navigational Scatters and Targa Rallies don’t require Helmets or suits etc, they mostly don’t require a competition licence either.
You tend to need the Competition licence for Road or Navigational Rallies and Historic Road Rallies, but again no Helmets or suits.
Only Hillclimbs and Sprints do you need Helmets and race suits etc.
I’m deliberately not counting circuit racing and Stage Rallying as ‘Grass Roots’ once you start looking at those the costs rise significantly.
As comparison you could do a full season of clubnight events at our motor club (Ilkley) that’s 12 events, such as Car Trials, Autotests, Nav scats and 12 Car Rallies for about £100.00 total in entry fees including club membership. In a standard car with no modifications. Ideally a cheap hatchback.
Entry fees for Road, Targa, Historic Rallies vary from about £70,00 to about £140.00 for club single day (or night) events. Cars can also be standard but some types are limited and modifications are usually done by the more serious competitors. No Helmets or suits are allowed on these events.
Sprints and Hillclimbs tend to be a little bit more expensive on entry fees and as mentioned do need the safety equipment.
You tend to need the Competition licence for Road or Navigational Rallies and Historic Road Rallies, but again no Helmets or suits.
Only Hillclimbs and Sprints do you need Helmets and race suits etc.
I’m deliberately not counting circuit racing and Stage Rallying as ‘Grass Roots’ once you start looking at those the costs rise significantly.
As comparison you could do a full season of clubnight events at our motor club (Ilkley) that’s 12 events, such as Car Trials, Autotests, Nav scats and 12 Car Rallies for about £100.00 total in entry fees including club membership. In a standard car with no modifications. Ideally a cheap hatchback.
Entry fees for Road, Targa, Historic Rallies vary from about £70,00 to about £140.00 for club single day (or night) events. Cars can also be standard but some types are limited and modifications are usually done by the more serious competitors. No Helmets or suits are allowed on these events.
Sprints and Hillclimbs tend to be a little bit more expensive on entry fees and as mentioned do need the safety equipment.
Do short oval racing or autograss
You will get far more bang for your buck, no utterly pointless ARDS test or massive club fees or entry fees
Race where you like, when you like within reason, just as good safety, better in some classes, friendly people and for 1500 quid you could ahve a decent car in some classes and stand a chance of winning.
Up to you if you want to race or spend a day driving for 30 seconds 4 times for 200 quid!
You will get far more bang for your buck, no utterly pointless ARDS test or massive club fees or entry fees
Race where you like, when you like within reason, just as good safety, better in some classes, friendly people and for 1500 quid you could ahve a decent car in some classes and stand a chance of winning.
Up to you if you want to race or spend a day driving for 30 seconds 4 times for 200 quid!
minigubs said:
Hi,
Looking for advice on where to even begin getting into Grass routes motorsport.
At this stage no car purchased but thinking a car circa £1500.
Whats the best way to get into a small racing series as a novice? Also rough examples of cost would be great.
Do you need a racing licence??
Open to all options - rallying/circuit/hill climb etc.
...complete novice so all advise is appreciated. I am new to the site so apologies if this has been asked before.
If you are completely new to competing and not a regular track day goer already I would strongly recommend you spend some time getting seat time in your chosen car on track days before you spend any money competing properly. Going racing is a very very expensive way to learn and the cost per lap or per minute is huge in comparison. Track days wont give you quite the same freedom or the same environment to go absolutely 10/10ths but you will be able to get yourself to about 75% of what you need in car familiarity, control and lap times then just build on it in test sessions with real racers around you to learn from rather than starting from scratch.Looking for advice on where to even begin getting into Grass routes motorsport.
At this stage no car purchased but thinking a car circa £1500.
Whats the best way to get into a small racing series as a novice? Also rough examples of cost would be great.
Do you need a racing licence??
Open to all options - rallying/circuit/hill climb etc.
...complete novice so all advise is appreciated. I am new to the site so apologies if this has been asked before.
I'm biased and will always say circuit racing is the way to go, where you need race craft not just pure speed to win but it will cost you more than something like hill climbing or sprinting which may be somewhere good to start if you are on a limited budget and to get you familiar with how things work.
First step is if you find an interesting series, go and watch it, go and talk to some people doing it and just ask questions. 99% of drivers could talk about it all day so you won't have trouble getting some info out of them.
Just PM'd you a link to my blog - until very recently I was a complete novice, so hopefully very relevant I too am biased in favour of circuit racing, it's a personal choice and budget, and what you term value for money. As people have alluded to, circuits are more expensive,
Race fees for Production BMW championship are the amongst the cheapest around, say £300 for 1 15 min qualifying and 2x 15 / 20 minute races. Car's are around the £3k mark minimum. Or you can buy one off the road for half that and do it yourself - not good value for money doing it that way but I treated it as a hobby for 2 years
I guess the question back to you is "why" do you want to get in to motorsport, what particular kind will scratch that itch.
I too am biased in favour of circuit racing, it's a personal choice and budget, and what you term value for money. As people have alluded to, circuits are more expensive, Race fees for Production BMW championship are the amongst the cheapest around, say £300 for 1 15 min qualifying and 2x 15 / 20 minute races. Car's are around the £3k mark minimum. Or you can buy one off the road for half that and do it yourself - not good value for money doing it that way but I treated it as a hobby for 2 years
I guess the question back to you is "why" do you want to get in to motorsport, what particular kind will scratch that itch.
Alternatively
You can improve your racecraft monumentally initially by trying some oval racing, it is far, far cheaper, far more welcoming and you dont need stupid tests to do and massive expense on clubs.
You use the same safety equipment, sometimes better, can race where you want and if you don't like it after a bit flog it all and move to circuits.
But I guarantee you will get more fun, more bang for your buck doing anything other than MSA motorsport.
You can improve your racecraft monumentally initially by trying some oval racing, it is far, far cheaper, far more welcoming and you dont need stupid tests to do and massive expense on clubs.
You use the same safety equipment, sometimes better, can race where you want and if you don't like it after a bit flog it all and move to circuits.
But I guarantee you will get more fun, more bang for your buck doing anything other than MSA motorsport.
carl_w said:
chunder27 said:
Alternatively
You can improve your racecraft monumentally initially by trying some oval racing, it is far, far cheaper, far more welcoming and you dont need stupid tests to do and massive expense on clubs.
By "oval racing" do you mean BRISCA stuff?You can improve your racecraft monumentally initially by trying some oval racing, it is far, far cheaper, far more welcoming and you dont need stupid tests to do and massive expense on clubs.
MyVTECGoesBwaaah said:
Depending on your location lots of tracks run their own formula with good numbers. The national stuff like BriSCA and Spedeworth are more expensive, but overall probably not much different to circuit racing.
But you do mean loose surface oval rather than tarmac, right?I've done loads of club motorsport over the years; autotests, autosolos, road rallies, stage rallies, club 100 karting, and most recently hillclimbing and sprinting.
Perhaps it's my advancing years (38!) but I utterly love hillclimbing. I used to sneer at the lack of seat time, but now I see that as part of the appeal. Four runs doesn't sound like much, but in those four runs you have to perfect your lines and braking points and that means taking some pretty big brave-pills. Another plus side is you have time between runs to spectate, to socialise, to wind up your competitors... sometimes four runs seems like a really busy day!
I use a Clio 172 Cup in the 'Standard Car' class; it's just that... as it came off the production line. I even use standard Renault pads! Tyres are from List 1A (I use Michelin PS3s - £55/corner and easily last a season) so they work in the wet and dry (no carrying around a spare set). I drive it to and from events - if something happens to it I'll get it dragged home on a recovery truck. Being standard there's no arms race - no incentive to spend money on the car apart from maintenance. I really like that. Everything about it is just easy.
It's also competitive. The Cup's pretty handy in its class but also against what on paper seem like much faster cars on much stickier rubber in the modified classes. The quickest of us in SC are usually well inside the top half of the field, using bog-standard £1k-£5k shopping trolleys on road tyres. It's much more fun being competitive in a slow car than off the pace in something quick.
I don't earn mega bucks but a season of hillclimbing/sprinting (I did 14 events in 2017) using a standard hot hatch is easily affordable. Prep costs are £1500 for a half-decent car, and £500 for helmet/overalls/gloves. It's so so easy, and to me the best club motorsport there is.
Perhaps it's my advancing years (38!) but I utterly love hillclimbing. I used to sneer at the lack of seat time, but now I see that as part of the appeal. Four runs doesn't sound like much, but in those four runs you have to perfect your lines and braking points and that means taking some pretty big brave-pills. Another plus side is you have time between runs to spectate, to socialise, to wind up your competitors... sometimes four runs seems like a really busy day!
I use a Clio 172 Cup in the 'Standard Car' class; it's just that... as it came off the production line. I even use standard Renault pads! Tyres are from List 1A (I use Michelin PS3s - £55/corner and easily last a season) so they work in the wet and dry (no carrying around a spare set). I drive it to and from events - if something happens to it I'll get it dragged home on a recovery truck. Being standard there's no arms race - no incentive to spend money on the car apart from maintenance. I really like that. Everything about it is just easy.
It's also competitive. The Cup's pretty handy in its class but also against what on paper seem like much faster cars on much stickier rubber in the modified classes. The quickest of us in SC are usually well inside the top half of the field, using bog-standard £1k-£5k shopping trolleys on road tyres. It's much more fun being competitive in a slow car than off the pace in something quick.
I don't earn mega bucks but a season of hillclimbing/sprinting (I did 14 events in 2017) using a standard hot hatch is easily affordable. Prep costs are £1500 for a half-decent car, and £500 for helmet/overalls/gloves. It's so so easy, and to me the best club motorsport there is.
With a £1500 budget for a car its difficult to look past a an MX5 for cheap RWD drive fun on autotests, auto solos, targas and maybe even a road rally or two. All but the road rallies can be done with no competition licence. If your local club does 12 car (road) rallies you won't need a competition licence. Most above that sort of level do require a comp licence.
An mx5 really is a cheap do it all car, if you want to take up hill climbing, stage rallying or circuit racing later when funds allow then those options are all open to an MX5
Plenty of FWD hatches to be had for £1500 or less if you can't stomach the idea of having a car that needs a "no hair dressing tools are left in this vehicle overnight" sticker.
I very much doubt you are going to do circuit racing on your budget. You are looking at and ARDS test, several hundred pounds.
The cost of personal safety equipment for circuit racing or stage rallying runs to several hundred more pounds, a minimum of around £600 for the basics.
Short oval racing is going to require a trailer/tow vehicle.
It is possible to go grass tracking cheaply but again you are talking trailer/tow car.
I've had a go at all sorts of motorsport over the years, autotesting or autosolos is the really grass roots stuff. Use a road car, entry fees can be a little as around a tenner.
Road rallies and targas are the next step up the ladder for road car based motorsport, but you are going to need a navigator. Road rallies need someone who can handle OS maps and decipher the route "clues", targas are more simple on the navigation, often a tulip road book or a pre plot route using map references. The nav will also have to navigate you around the tests on targas using a test diagram.
For the last three of four years I've been doingHistoric class targas with my lad, he could start navigating at 12, won a few pots and had a shed load of fun in a V8 Tr7, less traction...................more action. Been seen off by a good few Mx5s as well!!
Wingo.
I have done all of the rallying above and auto tests and solos. I would highly recommend Taga rallys as the best and most value for money.
Car wise I have used skoda felicia, several Ford pumas and twingo 133.
There are plenty of cars out there you could buy and prep for 1500 for Taga rallys to get started I would just do sump guard and good brakes.
Cars that I would be looking at building are civic 2.0 sport, twingo gt, fiat grand punto sporting. All a bit different than the normal.
Car wise I have used skoda felicia, several Ford pumas and twingo 133.
There are plenty of cars out there you could buy and prep for 1500 for Taga rallys to get started I would just do sump guard and good brakes.
Cars that I would be looking at building are civic 2.0 sport, twingo gt, fiat grand punto sporting. All a bit different than the normal.
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