Single Seaters £10k per Season
Discussion
Choice of tyres is free in Monoposto.
In previous years where there have been wealthy drivers throwing tyres at the car (several sets per weekend), they can instigate a rule limited specific classes to one set of new tyres per weekend - those tyres would be identified in qualifying, either by the unique barcoded reference number or by the scruitineer.
If a driver damages a wheel or cuts a tyre, he can approach the scrutineer and run a replacement.
In practice the front runners have three sets of wheels - a set of wets, a set of new slicks and a set of older slicks. New slicks used for qualifying onwards, then used for testing the following meeting and the oldest set discarded. Those that have massive trucks or trailers may bring another set of wheels, but they're heavy and bulky. A few people may have a set of inters or an older set of wets they are prepared to scrap for those races where its too wet for slicks, but too dry for good wets.
Tyre choice mostly either Avons or Pirellis - the Avons seem to come in quicker, but drop off sooner, the Pirellis take longer to come in but are more consistent and are cheaper per set. Michelin wets good, but their slicks aren't quite as good as Avon/Pirelli. Some people use Dunlops, Hankooks or Yokohamas - but they are not usually at the front.
In previous years where there have been wealthy drivers throwing tyres at the car (several sets per weekend), they can instigate a rule limited specific classes to one set of new tyres per weekend - those tyres would be identified in qualifying, either by the unique barcoded reference number or by the scruitineer.
If a driver damages a wheel or cuts a tyre, he can approach the scrutineer and run a replacement.
In practice the front runners have three sets of wheels - a set of wets, a set of new slicks and a set of older slicks. New slicks used for qualifying onwards, then used for testing the following meeting and the oldest set discarded. Those that have massive trucks or trailers may bring another set of wheels, but they're heavy and bulky. A few people may have a set of inters or an older set of wets they are prepared to scrap for those races where its too wet for slicks, but too dry for good wets.
Tyre choice mostly either Avons or Pirellis - the Avons seem to come in quicker, but drop off sooner, the Pirellis take longer to come in but are more consistent and are cheaper per set. Michelin wets good, but their slicks aren't quite as good as Avon/Pirelli. Some people use Dunlops, Hankooks or Yokohamas - but they are not usually at the front.
There are some very bad influences in here!
Outright performance is not important to me, I'm used to doing ~1:39s around Cadwell- any single seater is going to be a step up.
My main consideration alongside budget is as follows:
Are there close, competitive and well-attended grids where I can realistically aspire to run at the front without assistance and without excessive chequebook action (Ignoring the talent variable which I know is the biggest one of all)
I am coming from Caterhams where I have been spoiled with races where the top 10 drivers are lapping within a second of one another and the top 4 or 5 are generally separated by a few seconds at the end of a 20 minute race.
Outright performance is not important to me, I'm used to doing ~1:39s around Cadwell- any single seater is going to be a step up.
My main consideration alongside budget is as follows:
Are there close, competitive and well-attended grids where I can realistically aspire to run at the front without assistance and without excessive chequebook action (Ignoring the talent variable which I know is the biggest one of all)
I am coming from Caterhams where I have been spoiled with races where the top 10 drivers are lapping within a second of one another and the top 4 or 5 are generally separated by a few seconds at the end of a 20 minute race.
Have you thought about racing a Clubmans car? Quirky front engined single seater/ sports racers - some have all enveloping bodywork but some have "cycle wings" over the wheels, eg Mallocks, Phantoms and Visions etc.
Have a look here
https://clubmans.org.uk.
Probably the nearest thing to racing a Caterham except these have slicks/wets and aero wings.
2 main classes now (plus a separate Classic Clubmans series run by the HSCC) . CSP1 is for 2 litre/200bhp cars and engines are free. CSP2 is for 1600 K Series engined cars to a defined spec.
Tyres are F3 Hankooks, I think.
Can easily be bought for less than £10k (I sold a CSP1 Phantom last year for £6.5k) and will easily be run within your budget.
Arrive and drive?
https://www.racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/8730...
ETA - My old car seems to be for sale again:
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C928587
Have a look here
https://clubmans.org.uk.
Probably the nearest thing to racing a Caterham except these have slicks/wets and aero wings.
2 main classes now (plus a separate Classic Clubmans series run by the HSCC) . CSP1 is for 2 litre/200bhp cars and engines are free. CSP2 is for 1600 K Series engined cars to a defined spec.
Tyres are F3 Hankooks, I think.
Can easily be bought for less than £10k (I sold a CSP1 Phantom last year for £6.5k) and will easily be run within your budget.
Arrive and drive?
https://www.racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/8730...
ETA - My old car seems to be for sale again:
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C928587
Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 17th January 20:25
In my view ff2000 fits the criteria well. The grids are close and the decent drivers are at the front. I don't think you need massive money to do it either.
Vine it with us for a spin. Provided you're not a giant or a midget you'll fit in my car. Or even Miss Bert's.
I know of a royale coming up for sale soon. Everyone thinks you need a Reynard to be at the front, but Tom Smith won the championship in his. Iraced it and it was brilliant (it's not Tom's for sale).
Bert
Vine it with us for a spin. Provided you're not a giant or a midget you'll fit in my car. Or even Miss Bert's.
I know of a royale coming up for sale soon. Everyone thinks you need a Reynard to be at the front, but Tom Smith won the championship in his. Iraced it and it was brilliant (it's not Tom's for sale).
Bert
As mentioned I think Formula1000 ( Jedi ) would fit your requirement perfectly. These things are quick and hold the outright lap record at Cadwell etc. Having hillclimbed and sprinted one i can vouch for how much fun they are.. http://www.brscc.co.uk/formula-jedi-rebrands-becom...
I think I can rule out the F3, FR options plus the Jedi, the cars may be ballistic but this newer, more complicated stuff really doesn’t play to my strengths plus I prefer the idea of historic or classic cars.
It’s looking increasingly as though Dad is going to be basically doing a full season in the HSCC with his Formula Junior so this is pulling me towards the HSCC, the grids are established and well supported so hopefully there will always be interest in the cars.
Clubmans make a lot of sense but I really want to try my hand at the archetypal single seater.
I had done all my homework on FF1600 but FF2000 is starting to appeal to me more than before, Running an ’82 or ’83 car in URS is another option but I’m wary that the cars could become less desirable overnight if URS ceases for whatever reason. Same can be said for any championship I suppose…
It’s looking increasingly as though Dad is going to be basically doing a full season in the HSCC with his Formula Junior so this is pulling me towards the HSCC, the grids are established and well supported so hopefully there will always be interest in the cars.
Clubmans make a lot of sense but I really want to try my hand at the archetypal single seater.
I had done all my homework on FF1600 but FF2000 is starting to appeal to me more than before, Running an ’82 or ’83 car in URS is another option but I’m wary that the cars could become less desirable overnight if URS ceases for whatever reason. Same can be said for any championship I suppose…
I run an FR 2.0 occasionally in Mono (I can't afford full seasons) and can second everything that Andrew says above. I buy my slicks secondhand very cheap and yes, they're a bit slower, but the cost saving is so huge that I can't say no (besides, the saving is enough to pay for a couple of test days, and that would probably gain me more time than new tyres). The other thing I'd like to add is testing between races... with any sport you need practise to be good at it, and most of the quick guys test between races, in fact whenever I do my one or two test days a year there's normally another Mono competitor there getting the miles in. This is mainly to keep the driver up to speed, but also with a single seater the car can be tailored to each circuit too - for example with an aero car optimum wing angles will vary between circuits, and testing is needed to establish that.
The spread of times that you mentioned in Mono is down to a number of things: firstly, we have different ages of car running and they're all slightly different; secondly everyone's engine and car will be in a different state (I recently discovered that I've been running with a broken piston ring since I started!); thirdly budgets vary wildly from my end of things at the bottom right up to guys spending £20k+ on a year's racing, probably more; finally we have a huge spread of abilities from complete amateurs like me who started as an adult and only race occasionally, to former pros and also young drivers straight from karting looking to impress - some university teams actually pay pro drivers too, so you have that as well. Finally, some drivers get more practise than others - many of us only drive our cars 4 or 5 times a year, whereas some double that or even more.
Finally, the other thing worth mentioning about Mono is that we are subject to the Blue Book rule on ride height of 40mm minimum, and for some of us this also means we have to modify our rear wings away from standard, because the ride height takes the rear wing above another Blue Book minimum. That ride height is radically different to what many of the cars were designed to run at, and out of scope for expected differences from circuit to circuit (FRs for example ran from 15mm or even less up to around 20-25mm; the car's handbook shows data for geo etc only up to around 30mm). Furthermore, the tyres you can buy secondhand may not be the tyres that your car originally ran on. What all this means is that amateurs like us with little setup knowledge are in the dark somewhat because we can't use setups bought with the car or passed down from old hands, whereas experienced teams with good testing budgets, data experience etc can set their cars up more optimally. As usual in club racing though, I think driving ability is worth more than setup, but this is worth mentioning because, for me at least, starting afresh with setup is quite a scary thing to have to do. That said, I'm a physics/engineering geek and if I could afford to go testing a lot then I'd relish the challenge more than the actual racing!
Another thing worth mentioning is that there's next to no information online on running most single seaters, but once you get to know people there's a whole network of helpful, friendly and passionate guys out there who are willing to help.
The final thing I'd say is that running a single seater isn't really any more expensive than racing a Caterham to be honest, provided you can get your tyres secondhand and you don't crash it. The key thing though is that they're a lot faster and, subjectively at least, most people much prefer the way they drive (provided you fit in one...).
The spread of times that you mentioned in Mono is down to a number of things: firstly, we have different ages of car running and they're all slightly different; secondly everyone's engine and car will be in a different state (I recently discovered that I've been running with a broken piston ring since I started!); thirdly budgets vary wildly from my end of things at the bottom right up to guys spending £20k+ on a year's racing, probably more; finally we have a huge spread of abilities from complete amateurs like me who started as an adult and only race occasionally, to former pros and also young drivers straight from karting looking to impress - some university teams actually pay pro drivers too, so you have that as well. Finally, some drivers get more practise than others - many of us only drive our cars 4 or 5 times a year, whereas some double that or even more.
Finally, the other thing worth mentioning about Mono is that we are subject to the Blue Book rule on ride height of 40mm minimum, and for some of us this also means we have to modify our rear wings away from standard, because the ride height takes the rear wing above another Blue Book minimum. That ride height is radically different to what many of the cars were designed to run at, and out of scope for expected differences from circuit to circuit (FRs for example ran from 15mm or even less up to around 20-25mm; the car's handbook shows data for geo etc only up to around 30mm). Furthermore, the tyres you can buy secondhand may not be the tyres that your car originally ran on. What all this means is that amateurs like us with little setup knowledge are in the dark somewhat because we can't use setups bought with the car or passed down from old hands, whereas experienced teams with good testing budgets, data experience etc can set their cars up more optimally. As usual in club racing though, I think driving ability is worth more than setup, but this is worth mentioning because, for me at least, starting afresh with setup is quite a scary thing to have to do. That said, I'm a physics/engineering geek and if I could afford to go testing a lot then I'd relish the challenge more than the actual racing!
Another thing worth mentioning is that there's next to no information online on running most single seaters, but once you get to know people there's a whole network of helpful, friendly and passionate guys out there who are willing to help.
The final thing I'd say is that running a single seater isn't really any more expensive than racing a Caterham to be honest, provided you can get your tyres secondhand and you don't crash it. The key thing though is that they're a lot faster and, subjectively at least, most people much prefer the way they drive (provided you fit in one...).
Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 23 January 11:37
Rob's correct on everything he says.
There is a certain challenge in getting a Monoposto car right - the rulebook that lead to the cars creation in the first place, is different to the set of rules it has to comply with in the club racing scene. Few club championships enjoy a ride height dispensation to run at the low ride height the car was designed around - F3 Cup can run at low ride height, but Monoposto and most other club single seaters require the car to be raised to 40mm.
Secondly fuelling - an F3 car was mapped around high octane race fuel, whereas the same engine in an MSA championship has to run on "pump fuel", not Special Brew, so a remap is most likely needed, or an engine swap.
For many cars the precedent is set, just copy what others have been done, but it allows interesting options on some aspects - particularly recovering aerodynamic downforce lost when raising ride height, and whether you can do anything that was forbidden in F3 but is now opened up due to the change in rule set.
Engines - a lot of people swap out an F3 engine to a road derived unit from the same engine family - means Toyota and Vauxhall engines are popular as there were 'performance' versions of these engines sold without turbos or variable valve timing. Lots of options to be clever on inlet systems, exhausts, mapping, cooling.
One challenge Rob will have found was that the Michelin slicks his Formula Renault would normally use are not as quick as the Pirellis or Avons - but if my memory serves there isn't an exact replacement in tyre size so some changes have to be factored in - but there is a wider choice of cheap pre-loved Pirellis.
Some people do endless testing. Others less testing but use more brains. Whilst all seat time is good, pounding around a circuit without a definite plan is a bit of a waste. Try this, try that. Sometimes you'll find things that work, other times you'll drive down a blind alley, but you'll know not to pursue that route in future, for that circuit at least.
There is a certain challenge in getting a Monoposto car right - the rulebook that lead to the cars creation in the first place, is different to the set of rules it has to comply with in the club racing scene. Few club championships enjoy a ride height dispensation to run at the low ride height the car was designed around - F3 Cup can run at low ride height, but Monoposto and most other club single seaters require the car to be raised to 40mm.
Secondly fuelling - an F3 car was mapped around high octane race fuel, whereas the same engine in an MSA championship has to run on "pump fuel", not Special Brew, so a remap is most likely needed, or an engine swap.
For many cars the precedent is set, just copy what others have been done, but it allows interesting options on some aspects - particularly recovering aerodynamic downforce lost when raising ride height, and whether you can do anything that was forbidden in F3 but is now opened up due to the change in rule set.
Engines - a lot of people swap out an F3 engine to a road derived unit from the same engine family - means Toyota and Vauxhall engines are popular as there were 'performance' versions of these engines sold without turbos or variable valve timing. Lots of options to be clever on inlet systems, exhausts, mapping, cooling.
One challenge Rob will have found was that the Michelin slicks his Formula Renault would normally use are not as quick as the Pirellis or Avons - but if my memory serves there isn't an exact replacement in tyre size so some changes have to be factored in - but there is a wider choice of cheap pre-loved Pirellis.
Some people do endless testing. Others less testing but use more brains. Whilst all seat time is good, pounding around a circuit without a definite plan is a bit of a waste. Try this, try that. Sometimes you'll find things that work, other times you'll drive down a blind alley, but you'll know not to pursue that route in future, for that circuit at least.
Edited by andrewcliffe on Tuesday 23 January 17:59
Having raced in most of the classes you mention at some point or other I would put a slight sense check on your aspirations here. You say you want to run competitively at the front which is a reasonable aspiration, but seem concerned about the rising cost of cars which I can also understand, but the benefit of rising car prices to some extent is they help offset your racing costs, but you don't see a cash benefit!
The price of a good Historic FF is now £25k+ and the series is highly competitive, a good Kent engine will be £6k plus and even more for a very quick one. But the killer is the Mk9 gearbox - a decent gearbox specialist told me the other day that they'd just built a MK9 for a customer with good used bits and some remanufactured bits - its cost £6k. If you built a new new old its £9k+.
There are comments above about reasonably running old F3 cars or FR cars - don't go into this blind. The cost of parts for some of the older cars is now seriously expensive as you in the realms of having parts machined not bought off the shelf.
We ran a FF1600 at the Walter Hayes last year and would likely have spent half your season budget in a single weekend, probably more candidly most of your seasons budget.
Many of the 80's FF cars run cast uprights which can be difficult to source, knock a corner off or damage an upright you can literally be looking at thousands to resolve it.
I don't want to poo poo your ideas but wanted to make sure you had a full sense of the costs.
I would seriously encourage you to reconsider Formula Vee - its been very popular for longer than FF1600 for a reason - it's genuinely one of the few places to go single racing on a tight budget. Engines can be a bit fragile, but we bought a newly rebuilt box last year from a leading specialist for £700, you can spend that on a set of ratios for a Mk9! Yes they are less delicate than a FF (a FF feels very 'refined' in comparison) but the racing is competitive, especially up at the front. A FV car isn't particularly likely to rise in value - they've been much the same price for a decade plus I suspect! Given the rule book has been static for so long as well a well peddled older car can hustle some of the newer kit - a bit like FF1600 in principle but in reality its tougher with FF. Most of the Vee's are quite forgiving to drive but the engine characteristics can be quite different according to the builder, whether its running a full flywheel and aimed at torque (RSS Engines are typically like that) or a lighter weight sprocket type flywheel (Bowles Engines tend to be like that), the former will run to about 6,500 rpm the latter 8,000 rpm - but in lap times little different, but each has different traits, some suit some circuits more than others.
Also factor into your budget the requirements for testing - if you are looking at a lots of chassis adjustment you are going to need lots of testing - one of the reasons a Vee budget is lower is that having less adjustment means its easier to find a basic set up and run with it tweaking your way through a race weekend rather than spending weeks testing.
Just some thoughts to add to your debate!
We have both FF1600 and FV cars and race in both.
The price of a good Historic FF is now £25k+ and the series is highly competitive, a good Kent engine will be £6k plus and even more for a very quick one. But the killer is the Mk9 gearbox - a decent gearbox specialist told me the other day that they'd just built a MK9 for a customer with good used bits and some remanufactured bits - its cost £6k. If you built a new new old its £9k+.
There are comments above about reasonably running old F3 cars or FR cars - don't go into this blind. The cost of parts for some of the older cars is now seriously expensive as you in the realms of having parts machined not bought off the shelf.
We ran a FF1600 at the Walter Hayes last year and would likely have spent half your season budget in a single weekend, probably more candidly most of your seasons budget.
Many of the 80's FF cars run cast uprights which can be difficult to source, knock a corner off or damage an upright you can literally be looking at thousands to resolve it.
I don't want to poo poo your ideas but wanted to make sure you had a full sense of the costs.
I would seriously encourage you to reconsider Formula Vee - its been very popular for longer than FF1600 for a reason - it's genuinely one of the few places to go single racing on a tight budget. Engines can be a bit fragile, but we bought a newly rebuilt box last year from a leading specialist for £700, you can spend that on a set of ratios for a Mk9! Yes they are less delicate than a FF (a FF feels very 'refined' in comparison) but the racing is competitive, especially up at the front. A FV car isn't particularly likely to rise in value - they've been much the same price for a decade plus I suspect! Given the rule book has been static for so long as well a well peddled older car can hustle some of the newer kit - a bit like FF1600 in principle but in reality its tougher with FF. Most of the Vee's are quite forgiving to drive but the engine characteristics can be quite different according to the builder, whether its running a full flywheel and aimed at torque (RSS Engines are typically like that) or a lighter weight sprocket type flywheel (Bowles Engines tend to be like that), the former will run to about 6,500 rpm the latter 8,000 rpm - but in lap times little different, but each has different traits, some suit some circuits more than others.
Also factor into your budget the requirements for testing - if you are looking at a lots of chassis adjustment you are going to need lots of testing - one of the reasons a Vee budget is lower is that having less adjustment means its easier to find a basic set up and run with it tweaking your way through a race weekend rather than spending weeks testing.
Just some thoughts to add to your debate!
We have both FF1600 and FV cars and race in both.
Some good advice there.
Regarding your comment on F3 and FR cars, it's worth mentioning that Dallara brought out a new model each year, and I'm not sure how much they evolved between them (F301, F302 etc) as I've never worked on or owned one. However, one thing I can say as an FR owner is that the Tatuus FR 2.0 was very stable over its considerable lifespan of almost ten years, and huge numbers were sold worldwide. One issue is that since the demise of BARC we were stuck without a UK championship and a lot of cars and spares left the country. After a lot of delay and deliberation, you can now run them in Monoposto, but it's still early days with only 3 or 4 cars running.
However, you're absolutely right to raise the issue of parts as even for the FR this can be difficult and often very expensive. One of the first things I did when I bought my car for example was to replace the knackered old head restraint, and I just couldn't find one anywhere - I ended up buying the last one off the shelf from the factory in Italy, which was uncovered, and I then got it covered locally. Even some of the standard road parts can be tricky and expensive - I destroyed an engine last year and even the bog standard Clio 182 pistons were nearly a grand.
I'm not sure if I said this earlier, but it's worth mentioning why I run an FR, despite having a tiny budget: size. I'm not exactly a big guy at 70kg and 177cm tall with a very small frame, but prior to the FR I raced a few different late 90s space-frame single seaters and I simply didn't fit in any of them. My 2008 FR 2.0 is tight, but ok; anything smaller was difficult and even dangerous. In one FF that I drove I couldn't get my foot off the accelerator properly because it got stuck under the brake, so I had to wiggle my foot free at the end of each straight before I could get onto the brake pedal! Even in my FR I can't heel and toe because of the size of my feet and the length of my legs. If buying anything smaller than an F3 car, then I'd highly recommend the OP drives it first!
Regarding your comment on F3 and FR cars, it's worth mentioning that Dallara brought out a new model each year, and I'm not sure how much they evolved between them (F301, F302 etc) as I've never worked on or owned one. However, one thing I can say as an FR owner is that the Tatuus FR 2.0 was very stable over its considerable lifespan of almost ten years, and huge numbers were sold worldwide. One issue is that since the demise of BARC we were stuck without a UK championship and a lot of cars and spares left the country. After a lot of delay and deliberation, you can now run them in Monoposto, but it's still early days with only 3 or 4 cars running.
However, you're absolutely right to raise the issue of parts as even for the FR this can be difficult and often very expensive. One of the first things I did when I bought my car for example was to replace the knackered old head restraint, and I just couldn't find one anywhere - I ended up buying the last one off the shelf from the factory in Italy, which was uncovered, and I then got it covered locally. Even some of the standard road parts can be tricky and expensive - I destroyed an engine last year and even the bog standard Clio 182 pistons were nearly a grand.
I'm not sure if I said this earlier, but it's worth mentioning why I run an FR, despite having a tiny budget: size. I'm not exactly a big guy at 70kg and 177cm tall with a very small frame, but prior to the FR I raced a few different late 90s space-frame single seaters and I simply didn't fit in any of them. My 2008 FR 2.0 is tight, but ok; anything smaller was difficult and even dangerous. In one FF that I drove I couldn't get my foot off the accelerator properly because it got stuck under the brake, so I had to wiggle my foot free at the end of each straight before I could get onto the brake pedal! Even in my FR I can't heel and toe because of the size of my feet and the length of my legs. If buying anything smaller than an F3 car, then I'd highly recommend the OP drives it first!
I have no idea what this is actually like , if you are driving distance and wouldn't have to stay over night this might be a way of trying single seaters
http://www.ccracingclub.co.uk/championships/formul...
as it is a FF1600 I imagine resale will not be too much of an issue
http://www.ccracingclub.co.uk/championships/formul...
as it is a FF1600 I imagine resale will not be too much of an issue
F3 - Dallara homogated a chassis which lasted several years 97/98, 99/00/01, 02/03/04, 05/06/07, 08/09/10/11 and 12-18
There were updates to suspension and bodywork and many cars were updated.
Most suspension parts and steering arms have been copied so are available fairly easily. Some wings have been copied and aren’t too expensive and for the most popular engines quite a lot of things have already been copied and aren’t as expensive as you may think.
There were updates to suspension and bodywork and many cars were updated.
Most suspension parts and steering arms have been copied so are available fairly easily. Some wings have been copied and aren’t too expensive and for the most popular engines quite a lot of things have already been copied and aren’t as expensive as you may think.
I personally have just gone through a very similar question to you. I wanted to get into formula racing and not spend the earth.
After much research I've actually bought into Formula Vee, and hopefully will make it to the first race weekend at Castle Combe in a few weeks time for my very first race! Assuming all my other kit and race license are sorted by then, though will be going in a bit blind without any test day, so it will be a very steep learning curve!
Vee seems to me to have large grids (which lets face it is important for a good race!) and relatively even and close racing. Obviously there seem to be some cars faster or slower than others, but also the driver is as ever the most important factor. The large grid though means that no matter your speed, a front, middle or back runner - you will likely be racing closely with someone! Thee cars seem to me to be quite simple and perhaps lack some of the finesse of certain other series, but despite the low power the lap times still seem frankly quite fast! At least I think, fast enough to keep me well entertained!
So what influenced my decision was largely running cost and simplicity - I live generally too far away and don't have storage available for the car, so have let a team/manufacturer (AHS) pick up the car for me, and who will then store, service and bring it to the track for me. This is ideal for me turning it into "arrive and drive" racing, with AHS who are very reputable, dealing with all the mechanicals, fuel, fluids etc. Though it does come obviously at an extra cost to running it oneself, it also ensures the car should be "competitive" and means I don't have to spend many hours fixing, servicing (and learning how to service!) etc... which I generally do not have time for anyway. Also in Vee's you only really seem to need 1 new set of tyres per season, it seems to work out relatively reasonably, especially compared to other formula/single seater championships. Though I calculated the cost a little roughly, and skipped off the weekend in Croft (just too hard for me to get to), I worked out the cost of running (though forget exactly what the figure was) for the season for me to be somewhere in the £5k-7k ballpark, and should be towards the lower end of that if I don't break anything major!!
It still works out relatively as quite a sum of money per race weekend indeed, but for sure it can be done significantly cheaper than I am doing. And even then it's still noticeably cheaper than any other single seater series (especially with breakages) and probably has one of the largest grids too, and that to me makes it more appealing than the various FF series.
I'll probably forget to report back after the first race, but good luck in your search, and maybe see you on the grid at some point!
After much research I've actually bought into Formula Vee, and hopefully will make it to the first race weekend at Castle Combe in a few weeks time for my very first race! Assuming all my other kit and race license are sorted by then, though will be going in a bit blind without any test day, so it will be a very steep learning curve!
Vee seems to me to have large grids (which lets face it is important for a good race!) and relatively even and close racing. Obviously there seem to be some cars faster or slower than others, but also the driver is as ever the most important factor. The large grid though means that no matter your speed, a front, middle or back runner - you will likely be racing closely with someone! Thee cars seem to me to be quite simple and perhaps lack some of the finesse of certain other series, but despite the low power the lap times still seem frankly quite fast! At least I think, fast enough to keep me well entertained!
So what influenced my decision was largely running cost and simplicity - I live generally too far away and don't have storage available for the car, so have let a team/manufacturer (AHS) pick up the car for me, and who will then store, service and bring it to the track for me. This is ideal for me turning it into "arrive and drive" racing, with AHS who are very reputable, dealing with all the mechanicals, fuel, fluids etc. Though it does come obviously at an extra cost to running it oneself, it also ensures the car should be "competitive" and means I don't have to spend many hours fixing, servicing (and learning how to service!) etc... which I generally do not have time for anyway. Also in Vee's you only really seem to need 1 new set of tyres per season, it seems to work out relatively reasonably, especially compared to other formula/single seater championships. Though I calculated the cost a little roughly, and skipped off the weekend in Croft (just too hard for me to get to), I worked out the cost of running (though forget exactly what the figure was) for the season for me to be somewhere in the £5k-7k ballpark, and should be towards the lower end of that if I don't break anything major!!
It still works out relatively as quite a sum of money per race weekend indeed, but for sure it can be done significantly cheaper than I am doing. And even then it's still noticeably cheaper than any other single seater series (especially with breakages) and probably has one of the largest grids too, and that to me makes it more appealing than the various FF series.
I'll probably forget to report back after the first race, but good luck in your search, and maybe see you on the grid at some point!
Thanks to all contributors
I didn't manage to buy a car for this season in the end. Nothing jumped out at me and in any case the best cars rarely get advertised anyway.
I'm going to go to some race weekends and try to have a go in some cars. Dad and I are running the Junior for the first time in a couple of weeks so that'll be my first go in a single seater. Hopefully it'll put me off them for good
I've considered cars ranging from £8k to 30k... so long as there is a decent championship for the car the values are solid and that's fine- I would hope that I could buy an average to good car and improve / maintain it myself and sell it for around the same money without too much delay. My difficulty comes from the risk of inadvertently buying a bad car and then need to spend thousands with specialists putting it right (as I don't yet have the expertise), or even buying an OK car and then encountering an unlucky failure (major gearbox, terminal engine etc).
I hope I'll be much more decisive once I've talked to some people and seen some cars run.
I do need to sit in cars too because at 6' and 13 stone there are certainly some cars I won't fit in. The Lotus 22 was... an experience!
Special thanks to Bertbert for talking FF2000 with me on the phone
I didn't manage to buy a car for this season in the end. Nothing jumped out at me and in any case the best cars rarely get advertised anyway.
I'm going to go to some race weekends and try to have a go in some cars. Dad and I are running the Junior for the first time in a couple of weeks so that'll be my first go in a single seater. Hopefully it'll put me off them for good
I've considered cars ranging from £8k to 30k... so long as there is a decent championship for the car the values are solid and that's fine- I would hope that I could buy an average to good car and improve / maintain it myself and sell it for around the same money without too much delay. My difficulty comes from the risk of inadvertently buying a bad car and then need to spend thousands with specialists putting it right (as I don't yet have the expertise), or even buying an OK car and then encountering an unlucky failure (major gearbox, terminal engine etc).
I hope I'll be much more decisive once I've talked to some people and seen some cars run.
I do need to sit in cars too because at 6' and 13 stone there are certainly some cars I won't fit in. The Lotus 22 was... an experience!
Special thanks to Bertbert for talking FF2000 with me on the phone
HustleRussell said:
I do need to sit in cars too because at 6' and 13 stone there are certainly some cars I won't fit in. The Lotus 22 was... an experience!
I am 6ft and 14 stone, and I could get in both a Formula Vauxhall Junior and a Formula Vauxhall Lotus, as well as most Clubmans cars.andy97 said:
HustleRussell said:
I do need to sit in cars too because at 6' and 13 stone there are certainly some cars I won't fit in. The Lotus 22 was... an experience!
I am 6ft and 14 stone, and I could get in both a Formula Vauxhall Junior and a Formula Vauxhall Lotus, as well as most Clubmans cars.Gassing Station | UK Club Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff