Use your race car on the road?

[SimonWard]

Random (and probably naive) question but does anyone use their race car on the road at all?

I used to race and considering coming back. But I'd like to use a race car for driving to/from track, the occasional track day and, critically, the odd 'normal' journey. Imagine half way between track day car and race car ... i.e. all the basic safety and performance (roll bars, race seat, better brakes, extinguisher etc.) to compete sufficiently to have fun (mid field say) but with no stickers and a removable number and keeping one lightweight passenger seat.

Years ago a series like 'Road Sports' was named because it was the closest thing to taking a road car onto the track. Everything 750 MC (including Road Sports) looks great to me today. I have an Elise 111R (great toy) but may well sell and get a cheaper race ready vehicle that I would not mind getting damaged. I know it will obviously not be the most comfortable of cars for longer journeys but surely no less convenient than a motorbike (also have) or maybe something like a road going Caterham/Atom?

Is this possible or am I dreaming?

Thanks for any response/advice!

[Kraken]

In a lot of series there are people using road legal cars. It's all a matter of how much discomfort you're prepared to put up with on the road and how you plan to get home when the inevitable crash/mechanical issue occurs.

[cbmotorsport]

A race car usable on the road, will not be competitive on the track. Bottom line.

At some point, you will either have an accident or break down when on track. You'll then not be able to get home.

Cheap tow car and trailer required.

[Henry Fiddleton]

Hi,

I did this last year.

It was ok but bear in mind:

- Road/race car will be compromised. Set up for example (how much toe/camber do you want to run on the road?)
- Race damage; will you get stuck at the circuit?
- Race cars are awful on the road - anything more than 20 mins was enough for me (I can for 40 mins in it) but the road is bumpy etc.
- Tyres and tools; you can take them in the car, but after some race weekend my tyres were very close to being legal.
- Tyres; I had R888rs on from a race, and got caught on a down pour on the road. Not cool!

I now enjoy towing my car to circuits (and am not afraid to go further, I've been to Spa for example).

I also run a more aggressive car (plated diff), much more aggressive set-up, and can race hard.


[rthumb]http://www.barcsoutheast.co.uk/Galleries/05-08-2018/BARC%20SEC%20Modified%20Saloon%20Car%20Championship%20and%20BARC%20SEC%20TinTop%20Championship/album/slides/GH050818_F2R3175.html
[/rthumb]

Good luck.

[SimonWard]

Ah OK good to get a view from experience, sounds like it's possible but not worth it, thanks for responses, appreciated

[HustleRussell]

There are series where you will be at no technical disadvantage if your car is in road legal spec, the 'Classic' series in the Caterham Graduates club for example- Everyone has to run on normal road car tyres (not semi slicks), full compliment of functioning lights, horn etc. If you are about 95kg or less you will be on the minimum weight. I used to use mine on the road and it was really fine, the only slight compromise was the front brake pads which were pretty wooden when cold.

I was reading the HSCC Historic Roadsports regs recently and there you actually get bonus championship points if you drive your race car to and from the event, in fact I have arrived at a circuit in my road car and spotted the front running #98 Morgan arriving likewise.

Getting home in the event of a technical or crash is a stumbling block but there are dozens of trucks in the paddock of a weekend, one of which will surely have space for a car and be going somewhere not a million miles from yours.

Edited by HustleRussell on Wednesday 15th August 18:05

[seiben]

Having crashed my sprint car at circuit and having to get it recovered home, I'd recommend a trailer if at all possible

[SimonWard]

HustleRussell said:

There are series where you will be at no technical disadvantage if your car is in road legal spec, the 'Classic' series in the Caterham Graduates club for example- Everyone has to run on normal road car tyres (not semi slicks), full compliment of functioning lights, horn etc. If you are about 95kg or less you will be on the minimum weight. I used to use mine on the road and it was really fine, the only slight compromise was the front brake pads which were pretty wooden when cold.

I was reading the HSCC Historic Roadsports regs recently and there you actually get bonus championship points if you drive your race car to and from the event, in fact I have arrived at a circuit in my road car and spotted the front running #98 Morgan arriving likewise.

Getting home in the event of a technical or crash is a stumbling block but there are dozens of trucks in the paddock of a weekend, one of which will surely have space for a car and be going somewhere not a million miles from yours.

Edited by HustleRussell on Wednesday 15th August 18:05

[SimonWard]

Thanks HussleRussel! That's got me thinking again :-) ...think I;ll take. closer look at series

[Dave.]

There's a guy who competes at the hardwood hillclimb who uses his on the road, albeit not daily.

Edit - it's a mk4 R32

Edited by Dave. on Wednesday 15th August 19:26

[peekay74]

You could consider an FIA MG B, championship like the equipe or BCV8- cars (apart from race critical additions) are as near as damn it as they left factory ?

[McSam]

cbmotorsport said:

A race car usable on the road, will not be competitive on the track. Bottom line.

At some point, you will either have an accident or break down when on track. You'll then not be able to get home.

Cheap tow car and trailer required.

My trophy cabinet disagrees with you..!



I've owned this car for four years, during which it has been used in half a dozen sprints, over 30 track days and eight races. It has never been on a trailer during that time. It's currently competing in 750MC Roadsports, and three weeks ago finished 3rd in Class C at Cadwell Park - which is 120 miles from home for me. No problem at all, and never has been

The simple fact for me is that I have no trailer, no tow car, no B+E licence and no space to store a rig. If I didn't drive the car to the circuit, I couldn't go racing, and that doesn't sound like a good option at all! I can think of no way in which it harms my competitiveness. The car's been developed on a tight budget but I have not compromised its setup, it's right at the top of its power-to-weight class and if you imagine I keep something in reserve when racing it.. well.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFAzxCRhiTA

The only complaint I have when driving it on the road is that it's very noisy. Not engine noise, the exhaust is standard and it tends to test around 82dB, but road noise in a completely stripped saloon car is awful! Solution: noise-cancelling earphones. Then it's no trouble. The short gearing means I cruise at around 75mph (4000rpm in 5th), but it still does 25mpg which would be a good result with most tow cars anyway. Agreed value insurance with an A4 sheet of modifications is £300pa for 5,000 miles, which it does cover every year!

I'll be the first to admit that I've been very lucky, and that running the car on track days for three seasons before racing it built a lot of confidence in its reliability. I can get home if there's a major failure or a crash, as my second driver will have his car at the circuit, and then I'll simply hire a beavertail and go back to collect the car the next day. This would be cheaper than even just getting my B+E licence, never mind running and storing a trailer and tow car all year round! There's also a major advantage in it being a decent-sized saloon car, in that I can carry a full set of tyres (two sets at a push) and all my tools and racewear quite comfortably. For most series, roading your race tyres is either impossible or very risky, particularly in the unpredictable months at either end of the season. But the message from me is that if you choose the right series and the right type of car, it is not only possible, it's immensely satisfying.

[williamp]

cbmotorsport said:

A race car usable on the road, will not be competitive on the track. Bottom line.

At some point, you will either have an accident or break down when on track. You'll then not be able to get home.

Cheap tow car and trailer required.

Then again, an older racing car makes a perfect road car...



there's always one, etc etc!

[Matt W]

Simon, if you're interested in Caterham Classic Graduates have a look at the club website - www.graduates.org.uk. I currently race a Classic Grad and love it. Have a look at my videos to get a feel for it - www.youtube.com/wib1510. The driving standards are generally very good.

Feel free to send me a PM if you want to know more.

[SimonWard]

McSam - that is a brilliant answer, thank you, I think you've tipped me back into thinking I can do this! That Cadwell footage is great too and like your web site. If I come along to a race this year I'll get in touch, cheers.

Matt W - thanks for the contact - I'll look into it, cheers.

[cbmotorsport]

McSam said:

cbmotorsport said:

A race car usable on the road, will not be competitive on the track. Bottom line.

At some point, you will either have an accident or break down when on track. You'll then not be able to get home.

Cheap tow car and trailer required.

My trophy cabinet disagrees with you..!



I've owned this car for four years, during which it has been used in half a dozen sprints, over 30 track days and eight races. It has never been on a trailer during that time. It's currently competing in 750MC Roadsports, and three weeks ago finished 3rd in Class C at Cadwell Park - which is 120 miles from home for me. No problem at all, and never has been

The simple fact for me is that I have no trailer, no tow car, no B+E licence and no space to store a rig. If I didn't drive the car to the circuit, I couldn't go racing, and that doesn't sound like a good option at all! I can think of no way in which it harms my competitiveness. The car's been developed on a tight budget but I have not compromised its setup, it's right at the top of its power-to-weight class and if you imagine I keep something in reserve when racing it.. well.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFAzxCRhiTA

The only complaint I have when driving it on the road is that it's very noisy. Not engine noise, the exhaust is standard and it tends to test around 82dB, but road noise in a completely stripped saloon car is awful! Solution: noise-cancelling earphones. Then it's no trouble. The short gearing means I cruise at around 75mph (4000rpm in 5th), but it still does 25mpg which would be a good result with most tow cars anyway. Agreed value insurance with an A4 sheet of modifications is £300pa for 5,000 miles, which it does cover every year!

I'll be the first to admit that I've been very lucky, and that running the car on track days for three seasons before racing it built a lot of confidence in its reliability. I can get home if there's a major failure or a crash, as my second driver will have his car at the circuit, and then I'll simply hire a beavertail and go back to collect the car the next day. This would be cheaper than even just getting my B+E licence, never mind running and storing a trailer and tow car all year round! There's also a major advantage in it being a decent-sized saloon car, in that I can carry a full set of tyres (two sets at a push) and all my tools and racewear quite comfortably. For most series, roading your race tyres is either impossible or very risky, particularly in the unpredictable months at either end of the season. But the message from me is that if you choose the right series and the right type of car, it is not only possible, it's immensely satisfying.

Fair enough. I guess it's totally dependent on the type of racing you do, and the classes that you run in. Anything production based you might be ok, but anything highly modified, and you're not going to drive it on the road.

Having said that when I ran in a production class the car was setup for so much oversteer (FWD) it would have been downright dangerous on the road.

[McSam]

SimonWard said:

McSam - that is a brilliant answer, thank you, I think you've tipped me back into thinking I can do this! That Cadwell footage is great too and like your web site. If I come along to a race this year I'll get in touch, cheers.

I'm really happy to hear it! Thanks for taking a look around the website. As it says, most of the reason for its existence is to try and show people that racing can be a lot more accessible than many think (or are told). I'm at Donington with 750MC on 1st September, then Snetterton 6/7th October, you'd be more than welcome to take a look around the car and have a chat. Similarly, if you have more detailed questions or anything you wanted to discuss separately, just drop me an email.

750MC have been brilliant, by the way. Meetings have run smoothly and the team are really personable and welcoming. Always genuinely happy to have a chat or answer any queries, and the costs are very competitive. Average Roadsports entry this year is £320 for 25min qualifying and 45min race, which when you split it between two drivers as we do..

cbmotorsport said:

Fair enough. I guess it's totally dependent on the type of racing you do, and the classes that you run in. Anything production based you might be ok, but anything highly modified, and you're not going to drive it on the road.

Having said that when I ran in a production class the car was setup for so much oversteer (FWD) it would have been downright dangerous on the road.

Yes, absolutely. There are many championships where it just won't work, either through needing a really aggressive setup, a car so light it can't have a heater or lights etc, or an engine so highly strung you couldn't put road mileage on it. My point is more that if you select a set of regs that fit well (power-to-weight classes are especially helpful!), and a car that's both a reasonable size and can be fast without being twitchy as hell, it's very doable. And it's a real talking point! The car seems to attract a lot of attention, and I really don't know why more people don't do it. Another advantage is that I always have complete confidence the car is going to run properly and be reliable come race morning, because I drove it the night before - I've seen more than enough cars struggle to run right once wheeled off the trailer or present issues once up to temperature.

[SimonWard]

Good one, thanks and yes, hoping to go to the Snetterton race on 7th Oct, so will come and find you, cheers.

[anonymous-user]

We don't have UL legal issues, but I have friend who has a E30 M3 race car, full cage, no soundproofing, six point, minimum lights, single seat, he drives it 50 Km to the track and back , tools in the back slicks loaded in the boot and uses the road tyres as wets. LHD in a drive on left country, no wipers, fixed plastic window with vents.
He enjoys all the people waving to him on the motor way its perfectly doable.

[R8Steve]