Getting *out* of motorsport
Discussion
Kraken said:
I've thought about packing it in myself for similar reasons. It used to be a man and a van but now it's a man with a massive transporter, motorhome, six mechanics and a manager with the driver sitting in a chair talking to sponsors. That's not club racing to me. They should be on the TOCA package etc but of course they love being the big fish in the small pond.
It all depends on what you choose to race in. I mostly race with 750 and if you did something like LoCosts it still looks a lot like club racers that maintain their own cars and help each other out but if you do Enduro then you're looking at a row of artics and teams running well financed drivers and often with their hired-in pro team mates! On one hand that can be frustrating but on the other these guys can be beaten and it's all the more fun when a slightly ratty car that arrived on an open trailer with a team comprising friends and family gets to the front
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Jerry Can said:
Rambling post, apologies, but as for the OP, drop down a class or race level and run it by yourself. I've been doing that for years.
No need for apologies! I do run the car myself (albeit with significant help from my dad). I’ve usually raced his car previously, it’s a car we’ve owned since 1971, I even was transported in it in a carrycot, so weve decided to stick with that car. I’ll sell my race car and buy a fun classic for fast road and gentle hill climb with 50% of the proceeds. The rest goes on the mortgage (how tragic is that!)ChevronB19 said:
No need for apologies! I do run the car myself (albeit with significant help from my dad). I’ve usually raced his car previously, it’s a car we’ve owned since 1971, I even was transported in it in a carrycot, so weve decided to stick with that car. I’ll sell my race car and buy a fun classic for fast road and gentle hill climb with 50% of the proceeds. The rest goes on the mortgage (how tragic is that!)
the car is a keeper! paying off mortgages, yup still doing that. I could do so much more racing if I didn't have a mortgage. 
There's been a steady, however consistent, raising of the expense of entering and competing in what we all relate to as "club motorsport"
There are also more and more people clogging paddocks with enormous motorhomes and tennis court awnings for their one or maybe two cars, when previously a van was the norm, and a tent considered a luxury. Sure, things move on, however things have got silly of late in my opinion.
In addition, there is the perennial scourge of the paddock that could be characterised as the peacock-display-of-vulgar-wealth, where the area which is in essence the work place of the teams, drivers and mechanics, becomes the parking area for the accompanying super and sports cars, and the inevitable range rover types. Apart from being a general nuisance and getting in the way, these people must surely be mental to leave their trophies around an operational race meeting, and associated dangers of damage .............. can't the tag-along gang walk from the carpark like everyone else???
There are also more and more people clogging paddocks with enormous motorhomes and tennis court awnings for their one or maybe two cars, when previously a van was the norm, and a tent considered a luxury. Sure, things move on, however things have got silly of late in my opinion.
In addition, there is the perennial scourge of the paddock that could be characterised as the peacock-display-of-vulgar-wealth, where the area which is in essence the work place of the teams, drivers and mechanics, becomes the parking area for the accompanying super and sports cars, and the inevitable range rover types. Apart from being a general nuisance and getting in the way, these people must surely be mental to leave their trophies around an operational race meeting, and associated dangers of damage .............. can't the tag-along gang walk from the carpark like everyone else???
I had to pack in racing with a medical problem in 2015 - thought I would really miss it but have taken up overseas motorbike trips and a few less exciting hobbies and I don't miss it although I still have not managed to part with two of the race cars yet...
I still enjoy going to watch a couple of meetings a year but certainly don't miss the expense - until I stopped I did not realise quite how much I was spending...
I still get e-mails from various clubs and the things that always shocks me is the cost of entry fees now - some of the historic racing can be £1,300 for entry alone.
I still enjoy going to watch a couple of meetings a year but certainly don't miss the expense - until I stopped I did not realise quite how much I was spending...
I still get e-mails from various clubs and the things that always shocks me is the cost of entry fees now - some of the historic racing can be £1,300 for entry alone.
mat205125 said:
There's been a steady, however consistent, raising of the expense of entering and competing in what we all relate to as "club motorsport"
There are also more and more people clogging paddocks with enormous motorhomes and tennis court awnings for their one or maybe two cars, when previously a van was the norm, and a tent considered a luxury. Sure, things move on, however things have got silly of late in my opinion.
In addition, there is the perennial scourge of the paddock that could be characterised as the peacock-display-of-vulgar-wealth, where the area which is in essence the work place of the teams, drivers and mechanics, becomes the parking area for the accompanying super and sports cars, and the inevitable range rover types. Apart from being a general nuisance and getting in the way, these people must surely be mental to leave their trophies around an operational race meeting, and associated dangers of damage .............. can't the tag-along gang walk from the carpark like everyone else???
Hmm. I must admit I haven't noticed a huge increase in the cost of turning up. I started racing in 2001 and races were about £200-£250 to enter. Now races with the same club (who I'm now back with) are about £300-£350. That's in line with inflation (https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator), in fact things may have got slightly cheaper according to inflation.There are also more and more people clogging paddocks with enormous motorhomes and tennis court awnings for their one or maybe two cars, when previously a van was the norm, and a tent considered a luxury. Sure, things move on, however things have got silly of late in my opinion.
In addition, there is the perennial scourge of the paddock that could be characterised as the peacock-display-of-vulgar-wealth, where the area which is in essence the work place of the teams, drivers and mechanics, becomes the parking area for the accompanying super and sports cars, and the inevitable range rover types. Apart from being a general nuisance and getting in the way, these people must surely be mental to leave their trophies around an operational race meeting, and associated dangers of damage .............. can't the tag-along gang walk from the carpark like everyone else???
What I have noticed though is a difference in who is competing, as you also mention. Back in 2001, me turning up towing my racing car with my everyday road car and my Dad helping out was fairly normal; in fact many ran themselves with no help at all. These days, whilst that still happens at the grass roots, you don't have to go very far up the tree to find that most people are paying a team to look after their car and give setup advice etc. In my first race in my last championship, there was an unexpected downpour just before qualifying. Almost everyone seemed to have paid mechanics with them to help change tyres, change to a full wet setup etc. There were people running about with trolleys full of wets, power wrenches etc. Personally I barely got my tyres done in time, and only had time to quickly disconnect my rear ARB before arriving late at the assembly area covered in rain and oil! This is a pity, because after a few years racing something at the low end, many of us fancy stepping up the challenge by getting into something faster and more difficult to drive; inevitably though that means toeing the line with people paying teams to run cars for them.
I think all you are seeing is the inevitable rise of costs and from that the inevitable rise of earnings that the majority of people racing have.
IN that owner drivers exists less and less and far more people simply want to drive the car and have little other input.
that means these people have considerable wealth as that costs a lot.
I have not been to watch circuit racing for donkeys tears, it bores me to tears quite frankly, but when I go periodically the wealth present actually makes me wince.
Then again, you get what you pay for, there are numerous reasons why I stopped watching MSA type racing, and this attitude was one of them.
The sheer fact it costs 250 quid to enter a meeting where you might only do 50 laps is staggering! When you could enter something like a bike enduro, race for 3 or 4 hours and get super fit at the same time for 25 quid!
IN that owner drivers exists less and less and far more people simply want to drive the car and have little other input.
that means these people have considerable wealth as that costs a lot.
I have not been to watch circuit racing for donkeys tears, it bores me to tears quite frankly, but when I go periodically the wealth present actually makes me wince.
Then again, you get what you pay for, there are numerous reasons why I stopped watching MSA type racing, and this attitude was one of them.
The sheer fact it costs 250 quid to enter a meeting where you might only do 50 laps is staggering! When you could enter something like a bike enduro, race for 3 or 4 hours and get super fit at the same time for 25 quid!
chunder27 said:
I think all you are seeing is the inevitable rise of costs and from that the inevitable rise of earnings that the majority of people racing have.
IN that owner drivers exists less and less and far more people simply want to drive the car and have little other input.
that means these people have considerable wealth as that costs a lot.
I have not been to watch circuit racing for donkeys tears, it bores me to tears quite frankly, but when I go periodically the wealth present actually makes me wince.
Then again, you get what you pay for, there are numerous reasons why I stopped watching MSA type racing, and this attitude was one of them.
The sheer fact it costs 250 quid to enter a meeting where you might only do 50 laps is staggering! When you could enter something like a bike enduro, race for 3 or 4 hours and get super fit at the same time for 25 quid!
If you stopped moaning about stuff you , by your own admission , haven't even been to for ..err..'donkeys' tears '. and actually went to a few race meetings you would find a much more nuanced picture. Walk around and HSCC or CSCC paddock , and you might see the odd decent motor home, and 911 or two (and why the hell not if you can afford it ?) but you will also see the bloke with a Ford Transit and a tent. I don't know where you have been the last 20 years but I was paying 100 quid plus 20 years ago for trackdays, so 350 for a race sounds fine to me .IN that owner drivers exists less and less and far more people simply want to drive the car and have little other input.
that means these people have considerable wealth as that costs a lot.
I have not been to watch circuit racing for donkeys tears, it bores me to tears quite frankly, but when I go periodically the wealth present actually makes me wince.
Then again, you get what you pay for, there are numerous reasons why I stopped watching MSA type racing, and this attitude was one of them.
The sheer fact it costs 250 quid to enter a meeting where you might only do 50 laps is staggering! When you could enter something like a bike enduro, race for 3 or 4 hours and get super fit at the same time for 25 quid!
Or maybe you'd rather overthrow the evil mastermind Palmer and nationalise circuits ?
I have often thought about getting out of motorsport, usually after a bad weekend when I have performed particularly poorly, even by my low expectations (I am normally to be found very near the back of the grid and my lack of talent, time and money means that's where I will probably stay!) but by Tuesday I am inevitably looking on Racecarsdirect for the next possible car, or researching on-line for tweaks or improvements that I can try to buy!!
I only race 5-8 times a year, but it is like a drug; I am always looking forward to the next meeting, and it can more affordable than people think, depending on priorities/ sharing a car/ not going on 2 foreign holidays a year(!)/ camping at circuits/ having a cheap tow car rather than a newer BMW etc etc.
I have tried Sprints - cheaper in entry fees but how much per minute? No thanks. Trackdays bore me by lunch time, and I already play golf (I am better at that). Think I will stick to racing a few times a year for the moment, though. There is nothing like the excitement, the adreniline, the highs and even the lows.
Oh, and for those that think it is all motorhomes and supercars in the Paddock, there are still plenty at CSCC meetings (and no doubt other club's meetings) in tents etc; I slept in my trailer at Oulton recently. And there is an MGF for sale on racecarsdirect at the moment, which appears ready to race, for £1650. How cheap do you want racing to be?
I only race 5-8 times a year, but it is like a drug; I am always looking forward to the next meeting, and it can more affordable than people think, depending on priorities/ sharing a car/ not going on 2 foreign holidays a year(!)/ camping at circuits/ having a cheap tow car rather than a newer BMW etc etc.
I have tried Sprints - cheaper in entry fees but how much per minute? No thanks. Trackdays bore me by lunch time, and I already play golf (I am better at that). Think I will stick to racing a few times a year for the moment, though. There is nothing like the excitement, the adreniline, the highs and even the lows.
Oh, and for those that think it is all motorhomes and supercars in the Paddock, there are still plenty at CSCC meetings (and no doubt other club's meetings) in tents etc; I slept in my trailer at Oulton recently. And there is an MGF for sale on racecarsdirect at the moment, which appears ready to race, for £1650. How cheap do you want racing to be?
chunder27 said:
The sheer fact it costs 250 quid to enter a meeting where you might only do 50 laps is staggering! When you could enter something like a bike enduro, race for 3 or 4 hours and get super fit at the same time for 25 quid!
How much does your enduro bike cost? More than....andy97 said:
Oh, and for those that think it is all motorhomes and supercars in the Paddock, there are still plenty at CSCC meetings (and no doubt other club's meetings) in tents etc; I slept in my trailer at Oulton recently. And there is an MGF for sale on racecarsdirect at the moment, which appears ready to race, for £1650. How cheap do you want racing to be?
I think its outrageous that you pay £25 to enter an enduro, you could just cycle round some forestry commision land for the same length of time for free and get just as fit! (NB i don't, spend your money how you want just at least compare apples and apples. If you don't think there aren't people spending huge amounts on pedal bikes, you're deluded)mcdjl said:
If you don't think there aren't people spending huge amounts on pedal bikes, you're deluded)
Agreed.One of the HoD's where I am currently working has just upgraded his motorhome to one with a bigger "garage" in the back so that he can keep his £12,000 carbon fibre push bike securely locked away when he takes it on holiday. God knows what he spent on the motorhome, but it was only a year old and came from the Hymer family so not cheap.
People spend money on whatever they get pleasure from. I don't understand why someone would spend, say, £5K to go on a beach holiday for 10 days but if they think it is worthwhile, and can afford it then so be it. And spending money is what keeps the economy turning, after all!
Hopefully back on topic, spending money on motorsport when you are no longer enjoying it is clearly a waste and it is time to get out. But, if overall the highs outweigh the lows and you still think its worthwhile, then crack on. I spent a few days thinking of giving up after a poor Oulton Park Magnificent 7s race and a recent disastrous first ever rally; I am now eagerly anticipating a two day meeting at Anglesey in 3 weeks time.
andy97 said:
mcdjl said:
If you don't think there aren't people spending huge amounts on pedal bikes, you're deluded)
Agreed.One of the HoD's where I am currently working has just upgraded his motorhome to one with a bigger "garage" in the back so that he can keep his £12,000 carbon fibre push bike securely locked away when he takes it on holiday. God knows what he spent on the motorhome, but it was only a year old and came from the Hymer family so not cheap.
People spend money on whatever they get pleasure from. I don't understand why someone would spend, say, £5K to go on a beach holiday for 10 days but if they think it is worthwhile, and can afford it then so be it. And spending money is what keeps the economy turning, after all!
Hopefully back on topic, spending money on motorsport when you are no longer enjoying it is clearly a waste and it is time to get out. But, if overall the highs outweigh the lows and you still think its worthwhile, then crack on. I spent a few days thinking of giving up after a poor Oulton Park Magnificent 7s race and a recent disastrous first ever rally; I am now eagerly anticipating a two day meeting at Anglesey in 3 weeks time.
Personally, I just accept things as they are and don't view club motor racing as truly competitive, like running or tennis are for example. I just love driving cars fast around race tracks, and I enjoy being in a club of like minded individuals doing the same thing.
Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 2nd July 14:01
ChevronB19 said:
I’m hacked off. In the 80’s people with D Types etc would stay at the circuit in a tent. Now it’s all 200k motor homes and paying a team to run you. I was introduced to motorsport by my dad, he ran in formula junior at the front end in the mid 80’s on a council technicians salary. Impossible now. A bit like what happened to stage rallying in the 80’s.
Have you considered the CTCRC series? Probably the closest to 'the old days' motor racing, in terms of costs and other aspects.
There is much less of the cheque book professionalism, when compared to HSCC, although this year, some HSCC cars have appeared. Not sure about their status, so they might have been guest entries, without being eligible for championship points.
RobM77 said:
Personally, I just accept things as they are and don't view club motor racing as truly competitive, like running or tennis are for example. I just love driving cars fast around race tracks, and I enjoy being in a club of like minded individuals doing the same thing.
This!andy97 said:
. And there is an MGF for sale on racecarsdirect at the moment, which appears ready to race, for £1650. How cheap do you want racing to be?
I saw that, bonkers! usually you see the odd saxo or mg 170 for 2k-3.5k or a prelude that's been up there years for 2k but that MGF looks a decent hillclimber to be fair! he must really want rid.andy97 said:
ribiero said:
I saw that, bonkers! usually you see the odd saxo or mg 170 for 2k-3.5k or a prelude that's been up there years for 2k but that MGF looks a decent hillclimber to be fair! he must really want rid.
It is fitted with an extinguisher so not sure that it is a hillclimber.
I was talking about motorcycle enduro, not pushbikes.
And for me yes I would get rid of Palmer, he has made improvements yes, but also done bad things, as with all things like that you get swings and roundabouts. And personally I simply do not like the man having met him a few times.
He has done more good than harm, and for those of you who only really watch circuit stuff he is a demigod, just not for me sorry.
And for me yes I would get rid of Palmer, he has made improvements yes, but also done bad things, as with all things like that you get swings and roundabouts. And personally I simply do not like the man having met him a few times.
He has done more good than harm, and for those of you who only really watch circuit stuff he is a demigod, just not for me sorry.
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