What happened to rally?
Discussion
I don’t know a lot about rally so I stand to be corrected or put in place.
I was driving behind an R reg Celica earlier with the biggest mud flaps and white rally like O.Z wheels, it looked pretty cool and reminded me of rally cars years ago, they were interesting and cool, nowadays whenever I stumble onto a rally video, it’s usually a supermini on steriods, Fiestas and i20’s!
What happened to the Impreza’s, EVO’s and Celica’s...or should I say, the bigger cars.
Surely it’s better marketing and a better way to sell said cars to the public as special edition or rally editions.
What is the purpose of rally cars becoming a lot smaller
I was driving behind an R reg Celica earlier with the biggest mud flaps and white rally like O.Z wheels, it looked pretty cool and reminded me of rally cars years ago, they were interesting and cool, nowadays whenever I stumble onto a rally video, it’s usually a supermini on steriods, Fiestas and i20’s!
What happened to the Impreza’s, EVO’s and Celica’s...or should I say, the bigger cars.
Surely it’s better marketing and a better way to sell said cars to the public as special edition or rally editions.
What is the purpose of rally cars becoming a lot smaller
DoubleD said:
Daston said:
DoubleD said:
There are plenty of bigger hot hatches sold, so im not so sure about that.
Sorry I mean over an Evo/Subaru and all the other exciting rally stuff of yesteryearBecause in order to attract more manufacturers to the party the FIA dropped the old group A rules which stated the car must be closely based on a showroom variant. i.e If you wanted to go rallying, you essentially had to sell to the public a 4wd turbocharged car. Instead they went the WRC route which allowed manufacturers free rein to bolt a 4wd system and engine into a smaller more maneuverable chassis, and more importantly for the general public dropped the requirement for it to be based on a showroom car. Which is why (sadly) we never saw a road going 4wd-turbo Xsara, 206, C4, Polo, Fiesta etc.
Imprezas and Evos came about because the WRC rules at the time meant the race cars had to be somewhat similar to the road cars.
Now it seems you can run a 4wd chassis and massive turbo engine in a supermini without there being any relation to the road car spec.
I'm like the OP, I've not followed WRC in many years, I think it's almost a 'reverse halo' effect, where instead of the rally cars making the road cars look good, it is the road cars making the rally cars look boring, when I assume they are quicker than ever.
Now it seems you can run a 4wd chassis and massive turbo engine in a supermini without there being any relation to the road car spec.
I'm like the OP, I've not followed WRC in many years, I think it's almost a 'reverse halo' effect, where instead of the rally cars making the road cars look good, it is the road cars making the rally cars look boring, when I assume they are quicker than ever.
I try to watch it when it's on (either C5 or one of the ITV channels, cant recall), however, I can't tell you what the teams are or who drives for which (I vaguely think there a few Fords and French teams), without Googling I cant even remember who the current champion is, which demonstrates how much interest it has for me now.
The reason for the disconnect, is I cannot now go out and buy a ready-to-go car which is broadly similar to that which is currently competing. Unlike in the heyday, when I could get one not unlike e.g. Tommi Mäkinen or Colin McRae drove. Which was always the fantasy as a kid, and motivated me to get an Evo as soon as I could.
The reason for the disconnect, is I cannot now go out and buy a ready-to-go car which is broadly similar to that which is currently competing. Unlike in the heyday, when I could get one not unlike e.g. Tommi Mäkinen or Colin McRae drove. Which was always the fantasy as a kid, and motivated me to get an Evo as soon as I could.
No doubt there'll be some people on this thread soon telling us how great WRC is and that we're all wrong, but to me there's a massive disconnect between the sport and the public these days. Whether that's the cars, rally format or drivers, I'm not entirely sure.
The cars no doubt play a part in this and to me the current ones all look and sound the same. I have no interest in shopping trolleys no matter how quick they are.
The cars no doubt play a part in this and to me the current ones all look and sound the same. I have no interest in shopping trolleys no matter how quick they are.
Truckosaurus said:
Imprezas and Evos came about because the WRC rules at the time meant the race cars had to be somewhat similar to the road cars.
Now it seems you can run a 4wd chassis and massive turbo engine in a supermini without there being any relation to the road car spec.
I'm like the OP, I've not followed WRC in many years, I think it's almost a 'reverse halo' effect, where instead of the rally cars making the road cars look good, it is the road cars making the rally cars look boring, when I assume they are quicker than ever.
Where are these massive turbo engines ? Now it seems you can run a 4wd chassis and massive turbo engine in a supermini without there being any relation to the road car spec.
I'm like the OP, I've not followed WRC in many years, I think it's almost a 'reverse halo' effect, where instead of the rally cars making the road cars look good, it is the road cars making the rally cars look boring, when I assume they are quicker than ever.
I thought they where all 4 pot turbos with restricted power ?
unpc said:
No doubt there'll be some people on this thread soon telling us how great WRC is and that we're all wrong, but to me there's a massive disconnect between the sport and the public these days. Whether that's the cars, rally format or drivers, I'm not entirely sure.
The cars no doubt play a part in this and to me the current ones all look and sound the same. I have no interest in shopping trolleys no matter how quick they are.
The cars seem to be in a no man's land; neither close to what you see on the road, nor outlandish enough prototypes (Group B style) to watch in their own right. In the UK at least, even the manufacturers and sponsors who are involved don't seem to say a right lot about it.The cars no doubt play a part in this and to me the current ones all look and sound the same. I have no interest in shopping trolleys no matter how quick they are.
It feels like a regulatory, sporting and commercial bowl of apathy.
Maybe it needs a works Tesla to spice things up?
Monkeylegend said:
I remember waiting excitedly for the evening update of the RAC rally on telly, think it was an hours show in those days when the likes of McCrae, Burns and those pesky Finns were competing.
It doesn't get the mainstream coverage any more
Same here. It seemed like a big event that covered many areas of the country. It doesn't get the mainstream coverage any more
"Rally Report" was presented by the then Top Gear team, with a great theme tune (Duel by Propaganda).
I once went to a very snowy Kielder to watch. Very few cars were left in the event and the ones that were trundled past.
MC Bodge said:
Same here. It seemed like a big event that covered many areas of the country.
"Rally Report" was presented by the then Top Gear team, with a great theme tune (Duel by Propaganda).
I once went to a very snowy Kielder to watch. Very few cars were left in the event and the ones that were trundled past.
You can watch every WRC stage live on BT Sport now. Channel 5 do a decent highlights show. One stage from every round is free and live on Red Bull TV as well. Highlights of all British, Irish and Belgian rallies on my Freesat tv. You can watch live ERC on the web from every round, plus catch up / highlights on Eurosport."Rally Report" was presented by the then Top Gear team, with a great theme tune (Duel by Propaganda).
I once went to a very snowy Kielder to watch. Very few cars were left in the event and the ones that were trundled past.
It's all there if you want it and much better than before, just won't be on BBC.
LimaDelta said:
Because in order to attract more manufacturers to the party the FIA dropped the old group A rules which stated the car must be closely based on a showroom variant. i.e If you wanted to go rallying, you essentially had to sell to the public a 4wd turbocharged car. Instead they went the WRC route which allowed manufacturers free rein to bolt a 4wd system and engine into a smaller more maneuverable chassis, and more importantly for the general public dropped the requirement for it to be based on a showroom car. Which is why (sadly) we never saw a road going 4wd-turbo Xsara, 206, C4, Polo, Fiesta etc.
It's ironic, then that most of the manufacturers competing have a 4wd turbo charged car for sale but aren't being used in WRC despite some even being marketed as "sporty".The disconnect is for two reasons in my opinion.
The sport has been dominated by two Frenchman for roundabout 15 years, Loeb and Ogier, that puts people off, utterly, always has, always will.
You still get the odd good rally, but if everyone has turned off who cares. Loeb in particular never drove for anyone other than Citroen, so that meant he just got better and better, at least Ogier has been around and proved it is only him that means wins, nothing else, and indeed when he was Loebs team-mate the pressure was on him to leave I believe.
The other thing, in this country at least is the lack of British drivers. the sport had its boom when Burns and McRae were rallying, it was on Channel 4, big viewers, decent budget thrown at it, massive amounts of works cars, it was great. All you had was a weak Wilson who was there coz of his Dad and Meeke who was fast but so prone to errors you just felt sorry for him. There is no great battling, rallies are often decided early on and the rules have changed so much, even a retirement can mean you score points, it's just been adapted to be as cheap as possible for travel, but the cars cost three quarters of a mill! It's crazy.
Rights owners have tried their best, they have run it on just about every channel but it gets passed around every few years coz no-one wants it and no-one watches it really.
I don't follow modern cars in terms of the disconnect, I would think the RS range is now more linked to boy racers than rallying as it was, Hyundai are trying to link their sports ranges viz the N thing, but Toyota? No link at all I can see.
The sport has been dominated by two Frenchman for roundabout 15 years, Loeb and Ogier, that puts people off, utterly, always has, always will.
You still get the odd good rally, but if everyone has turned off who cares. Loeb in particular never drove for anyone other than Citroen, so that meant he just got better and better, at least Ogier has been around and proved it is only him that means wins, nothing else, and indeed when he was Loebs team-mate the pressure was on him to leave I believe.
The other thing, in this country at least is the lack of British drivers. the sport had its boom when Burns and McRae were rallying, it was on Channel 4, big viewers, decent budget thrown at it, massive amounts of works cars, it was great. All you had was a weak Wilson who was there coz of his Dad and Meeke who was fast but so prone to errors you just felt sorry for him. There is no great battling, rallies are often decided early on and the rules have changed so much, even a retirement can mean you score points, it's just been adapted to be as cheap as possible for travel, but the cars cost three quarters of a mill! It's crazy.
Rights owners have tried their best, they have run it on just about every channel but it gets passed around every few years coz no-one wants it and no-one watches it really.
I don't follow modern cars in terms of the disconnect, I would think the RS range is now more linked to boy racers than rallying as it was, Hyundai are trying to link their sports ranges viz the N thing, but Toyota? No link at all I can see.
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