MSUK licence now mandatory for all events

MSUK licence now mandatory for all events

Author
Discussion

velocemitch

Original Poster:

2,733 posts

167 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
So this is a new one from MSUK in their effort to help Grass Roots motorsport they have now decided you can no longer enter club level events on production of a club membership card alone. All will need to hold a an MSUK 'Clubmans RS' licence, even those who are non competing passengers.

The new licence will be free, but in my view its still going to put many off.

Just to add insult to injury the permit fees are going up a flat rate of £5.00 all round too, which is quite a chunk, for instance each entry on a Car trial in 2019 paid £4.85, next year it rises to £9.85.

So this is all a good idea how then Mr Chambers?????

geeks

4,842 posts

86 months

Tuesday 5th November
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Huh? I think you need to put a link or article or something here as I have no idea what you mean.

Bricol

140 posts

114 months

Tuesday 5th November
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Quite agree.

Assuming, much like the old licences you can apply on the day for the free licence, I don't have too much hassle with that. But why when a club card has done up to now?

The permit fee rise though - how is increasing entry fees going to increase numbers of people doing grassroots motorsport? The ones juggling family time, costs etc. A clubnight going up a fiver for a couple hours enjoyable competition, for me a lark about, get out, have a laugh, a chat - makes it easier to not bother, just do the odd all day event.

So reduced clubnight entries, reduced numbers of people bothering - already hard enough to drag younger potential members away from their screens . . .

Kraken

1,232 posts

147 months

Tuesday 5th November
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What club level racing are you talking about that you could enter with no license? Autocross or something?

velocemitch

Original Poster:

2,733 posts

167 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
Kraken said:
What club level racing are you talking about that you could enter with no license? Autocross or something?
Hundreds of events are organised by MSuk motor clubs each year that do not require a licence under the current system for example;
Car Trials
Autotest
2 car Rallies
Navigational scatters
Some Navigational Rallies
Most Targa Rallies

Even some of the most prestigious Historic Road Rallies do not require a competition licence, for example HERO's RAC Rally of the Tests, its closed to members of HERO therefore does not require a licence.

On the more expensive events an extra £5.00 on the entry fee won't have much affect, but most clubs only charge about £10-1 for an autotest or car trial, this means a £5.00 increase is very significant.

Grumbly

149 posts

95 months

Tuesday 5th November
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I get the impression the MSA is anti club motorsport in general. The kit car class in our local sprints, which was once a very popular class is now devoid of entries, due the the changes in roll over bar rules. My car was only used a few times a year and it's simply not worth the expense to upgrade.

Kraken

1,232 posts

147 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
Grumbly said:
I get the impression the MSA is anti club motorsport in general. The kit car class in our local sprints, which was once a very popular class is now devoid of entries, due the the changes in roll over bar rules. My car was only used a few times a year and it's simply not worth the expense to upgrade.
There's no such thing as the MSA anymore. MSUK is very much in favour of club racing and have made changes in that regard. Problem is people only remember the negative changes and not the positive ones. Also I read many times on Facebook in particular about people mistaking rule proposals for actual changes.

Grumbly

149 posts

95 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
Kraken said:
There's no such thing as the MSA anymore. MSUK is very much in favour of club racing and have made changes in that regard. Problem is people only remember the negative changes and not the positive ones. Also I read many times on Facebook in particular about people mistaking rule proposals for actual changes.
You're right of course, they are wearing a new hat, being vey old my licence is still in a wallet with RAC emblazoned on the front. Nevertheless the rule change has rendered many Westfields and others fitted with factory supplied rollover protection ineligible for competition, and I and many others are a bit cross.

velocemitch

Original Poster:

2,733 posts

167 months

Tuesday 5th November
quotequote all
Kraken said:
Grumbly said:
I get the impression the MSA is anti club motorsport in general. The kit car class in our local sprints, which was once a very popular class is now devoid of entries, due the the changes in roll over bar rules. My car was only used a few times a year and it's simply not worth the expense to upgrade.
There's no such thing as the MSA anymore. MSUK is very much in favour of club racing and have made changes in that regard. Problem is people only remember the negative changes and not the positive ones. Also I read many times on Facebook in particular about people mistaking rule proposals for actual changes.
I’ve seen many proposed rule changes brought to my attention via the emails and links. The vast majority came to pass, despite a good deal of objections, often passed through the official channels. Now and again I’ve seen them over turned after a couple of years ( hydraulic handbrakes on Historic road rally cars being one), but it’s very rare.

Galveston

561 posts

146 months

Wednesday 6th November
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MUK have given a couple of reasons why permit costs are increasing...

1) Insurance costs have increased significantly.

2) Officials will no longer be charged for their licences, and the cost (or loss of income) needs to be recovered elsewhere.

I'm amazed that the Clerk of Course and Scrutineers etc have been expected to pay an annual fee, so quite happy for those costs to be reallocated onto the competitors.

The mandatory free licence thing for club events all seems a bit bizarre though, and will surely deter newcomers.

df76

1,999 posts

225 months

Wednesday 6th November
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Galveston said:
The mandatory free licence thing for club events all seems a bit bizarre though, and will surely deter newcomers.
Suspect that's also related to an insurance issue.

velocemitch

Original Poster:

2,733 posts

167 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
It’s the disproportionate affect which annoys me and many others who are involved at the most grass roots level.

We don’t pay and have never paid a licence fee to be clerks of course on events, right up to national B Road Rally, only on a stage event does a clerks licence come in. Scrutineering for the larger events are paid expenses, they tend to be the only ones who are, the rest of us do it for love !

Insurance has gone up and the UK does appear to have escaped the worst of this so far, Ireland is much harder hit. But a flat increase in permit fees is massively out of proportion, it will double the permit cost of a clubnight Autotest or Car trial. Adding the same figure to the permit cost of a Hillclimb is a much smaller percentage.

The RS licence is just data gathering and a way of increasing the apparent size and influence of MSUk relative to other sporting bodies. As far as insurance is concerned once you are signed on to an event and have club membership you are already insured.

Drumroll

1,521 posts

67 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
velocemitch said:
As far as insurance is concerned once you are signed on to an event and have club membership you are already insured.
Yes but who currently pays for that Insurance?

My own feeling is is that this has been driven by the insurance companies. Either directly or indirectly.


carl_w

6,301 posts

205 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
Drumroll said:
velocemitch said:
As far as insurance is concerned once you are signed on to an event and have club membership you are already insured.
Yes but who currently pays for that Insurance?

My own feeling is is that this has been driven by the insurance companies. Either directly or indirectly.
My understanding is that MSUK's insurance covers events run by clubs under MSUK's jurisdiction, and the event entry fees include the cost of the insurance. Something must have changed as for the last few years MSA were distributing rebates to the clubs at the end of the season.

Drumroll

1,521 posts

67 months

Wednesday 6th November
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We live in a more litigious society.

Duke Caboom

1,547 posts

146 months

Wednesday 6th November
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I thin its good, in that, as I understand it, the next level of motorsport up, from autotests etc, will also have a free license in stead of paying for a non-race national B. This will allow people to have a go at things like sprinting, especially as I now thing the suit laws have also been relaxed.

Please correct me if I'm wrong - this is as I understood it from social media!




Wingo

212 posts

118 months

Wednesday 6th November
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A free clubman RS licence in 2020 but for how long?

No such thing as free and there is a catch.

The permit fee per competitor doubling at hundreds of grass roots level autotests, auto solos, 12 car rallies, trials.

A real great way to encourage a the grass roots of UK motorsport.

Give with one hand and take away with the other. There is a complete disconnect with the MSUK and the grass roots competitors/the local clubs they are members of.

As a grass roots competitor and organiser to say I have less than positive thoughts towards MSUK about this is an understatement.

Dave Richards initially looked like was a breath of fresh for clubbie motorsport with changes to some rallying rules, all that good work has been more than undone with this IMHO.

Anyway rather than spout off and get into a lather on a forum then do nowt else I'll be doing what every grass roots level autotester, auto solo, 12 car rallies and trials competitor needs to do if they think this is wrong.

Send a well reasoned communication to MSUK.


velocemitch

Original Poster:

2,733 posts

167 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
Duke Caboom said:
I thin its good, in that, as I understand it, the next level of motorsport up, from autotests etc, will also have a free license in stead of paying for a non-race national B. This will allow people to have a go at things like sprinting, especially as I now thing the suit laws have also been relaxed.

Please correct me if I'm wrong - this is as I understood it from social media!
I think you are wrong as far as i can work out the Clubman RS licence will only cover events that you could have done on a Club Card previously. You will still need the club card anyway. I believe you will need the Interclub licence for Speed events which is the equivalent of Nat B Non Race. I'd check but as far as i can see MSuk have just pulled all the documentation off the website.... I wonder why!!

On the Rally side as appose to the speed side, the organisors have mostly already had the option of running an event as a Clubman or a National B. Many used the clubman permit anyway, those that didn't tended to use Nat B because it was mandatory if the event formed part of a championship. i expect that will stay the same, but I have asked the question.

df76

1,999 posts

225 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
Noted that medicals are no longer required for the majority of race licence holders, and just an eye test for new applicants and those over 45 required. That's a big saving for race licence holders.

MRichards99

218 posts

75 months

Wednesday 6th November
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I've been looking into grass roots motorsports over the past few weeks - I read about this change and wasn't too sure what it meant.

The whole autosolo thing appealed to me as it seemed like (but correct me if I'm wrong cause it's quite complicated as a newcomer!) I could compete in a couple of these events to get a feel for it without the need to buy all the correct helmets, racesuits, gloves etc. I have a helmet for trackdays but it's not the correct spec for non-race national B (for sprinting etc.) and I don't want to spend on all the safety equipment if I realise I don't want to continue (for whatever reason). Will competitors of autosolos etc still get away without the need of the safety equipment?

As seems to be common opinion, it seems as if this change will make things more complicated for newbies. Perhaps MSUK just haven't published enough information about this yet - googling of 'MSUK Clubmans RS' yields this thread as the top result...