Discussion
Thanks Andrew 
Do you know how Jenson Button got his superlicense? If I remember rightly he won all 34 races in karting one year, did the same in Formula Ford the next, plus the festival, and then went straight to F1. Raikonnen went from Formula Renault I believe.
What does the stress ECG entail Bert? At 42 I've never done one.
Do you know how Jenson Button got his superlicense? If I remember rightly he won all 34 races in karting one year, did the same in Formula Ford the next, plus the festival, and then went straight to F1. Raikonnen went from Formula Renault I believe.What does the stress ECG entail Bert? At 42 I've never done one.
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 22 November 08:39
Bit silly turning this into an iRacing vs the word thread.
Lots of people like it and highly rate it and regularly use it including a number of current F1 drivers.
If you didn't get on with it that's fine, lots of other sims out there.
OP, most important piece of advice, regardless of what software or hardware you go for, get a proper test before buying. Easier said that done with a relatively niche hobby but well worth doing.
Lots of people like it and highly rate it and regularly use it including a number of current F1 drivers.
If you didn't get on with it that's fine, lots of other sims out there.
OP, most important piece of advice, regardless of what software or hardware you go for, get a proper test before buying. Easier said that done with a relatively niche hobby but well worth doing.
Rick101 said:
Bit silly turning this into an iRacing vs the word thread.
Lots of people like it and highly rate it and regularly use it including a number of current F1 drivers.
If you didn't get on with it that's fine, lots of other sims out there.
OP, most important piece of advice, regardless of what software or hardware you go for, get a proper test before buying. Easier said that done with a relatively niche hobby but well worth doing.
Just to re-iterate what I said in my first post, iRacing is very good and I rate it highly. My favourite two sims are iRacing and Assetto Corsa. However, I just have reservations about their commitment to producing an accurate sim, given that they're clearly not modelling cars and tracks in sufficient detail. The FR still isn't correct and up until recently Silverstone GP was the old circuit with Bridge on it. Up until some point in the last year you couldn't run low enough pressures for any single seater or sports racer; now they've apparently suddenly changed them and I'm guessing the cars haven't suddenly changed in the way they drive, so that gives me more doubt. It drives well, I just have my doubts. The only reason I've posted so much about it is that I have to keep defending my comments! There are things about all sims which aren't quite right.Lots of people like it and highly rate it and regularly use it including a number of current F1 drivers.
If you didn't get on with it that's fine, lots of other sims out there.
OP, most important piece of advice, regardless of what software or hardware you go for, get a proper test before buying. Easier said that done with a relatively niche hobby but well worth doing.
Button did a season in British Formula 3 in 1999 and impressed - top rookie, 3rd overall and McLaren Autosport young driver, so got an F1 test with McLaren which opened doors and got a drive with Williams.
Raikkonen lept from Formula Renault UK to Sauber and bypassed F3 and F3000.
Same as Verstappen and Stroll, leaping from F3 to F1 without doing GP3/GP2. One by view of talent, one because of moderate talent but a big shiny chequebook,
If the current rules had been in place when Button and Raikkonen were coming through the ranks, they wouldn't have been able to make the leap. Likewise Verstappen and Stroll would have had to do succeed in GP3/2 like George Russell has had to do.
Raikkonen lept from Formula Renault UK to Sauber and bypassed F3 and F3000.
Same as Verstappen and Stroll, leaping from F3 to F1 without doing GP3/GP2. One by view of talent, one because of moderate talent but a big shiny chequebook,
If the current rules had been in place when Button and Raikkonen were coming through the ranks, they wouldn't have been able to make the leap. Likewise Verstappen and Stroll would have had to do succeed in GP3/2 like George Russell has had to do.
RobM77 said:
Just to re-iterate what I said in my first post, iRacing is very good and I rate it highly. My favourite two sims are iRacing and Assetto Corsa. However, I just have reservations about their commitment to producing an accurate sim, given that they're clearly not modelling cars and tracks in sufficient detail. The FR still isn't correct and up until recently Silverstone GP was the old circuit with Bridge on it. Up until some point in the last year you couldn't run low enough pressures for any single seater or sports racer; now they've apparently suddenly changed them and I'm guessing the cars haven't suddenly changed in the way they drive, so that gives me more doubt. It drives well, I just have my doubts. The only reason I've posted so much about it is that I have to keep defending my comments! There are things about all sims which aren't quite right.
i'll defend iracing this time from you as you're giving skewy info, i'm not an apologist for them btw. 1) tyre model, anyone who has used iracing long enough knows about the tyre model getting updated every so often. they do tyre model work on oval/dirt oval/rallycross/road/stadium trucks - so they're constantly on it and like all things iracing they stack up these updates until the end of the 12week iracing season to patch/release (because no one likes the goalposts moving mid season) Currently at the minute 1 version of the tyre model is applied to the TCR car and an older version is applied to the GT3's and switching the tyres on is very different.
2) They've had Silverstone for years, but it's taken them forever to put the new version in sim, this has been whinged about (as have other uk signed circuits), but if you think about it from business point of view then they need to get their kit + staff over to uk to scan + photograph it to their standards, then they've got to fit in the dev time (as the old silverstone was lower standard of gfx they'd redo _everything_ ) so it was a new build that would be hard to sell to members for full whack because like daytona and some of the ovals that they've upgraded with same process they've offered discounts. Usually iracing do multiple circuits in one oversea's visit, they didn't do that this time with Silverstone, so they spent a lot to do it for a second time.
You're the first.. FIRST person i've heard say they've not modelled the circuit in sufficient detail, i'm off to donny again tomorrow, i'll chuckle to myself every time I go through old hairpin..
3) your FRren stuff which is based on what you know.. have you not taken this to their forums to post your information (and not use it as a rod to beat them with) they like working with race drivers and engineers on this thing, they have alpha testing where you can exactly feed back these kind of things, they might even give you an answer you're satisfied with.
4) I trust iracings car modelling more than other sims, when I see other sims release bulks cars (even new) at once when no way would some of those manufacturers would hand over detailed information on some of their cars systems. - when Iracing signed a deal for the macca mp4 gt3 (it was current back then) they used united autosports mcclaren (i think) and when they approached McClaren because they wanted all the info on their ABS to model it.. McClaren (because motorsport) told them to fk off. Cant believe for a minute ACC + RF2 get anywhere near that info from vendors, let alone the simcade brigade forza/pc2/GranTurismo.
Problem I have with sims is that I get no sensation of speed when approaching a braking zone or any feel of the car moving about on the limit. I use them to learn the basics of a new to me track before driving it in real life and nothing else really.
I expect a full motion setup so what I felt through my backside matched what I was seeing would be different but that's out of the reach of most. It's interesting that most older drivers (even in F1 etc) really don't like simulators at all whereas the younger generation seem to love them.
I expect a full motion setup so what I felt through my backside matched what I was seeing would be different but that's out of the reach of most. It's interesting that most older drivers (even in F1 etc) really don't like simulators at all whereas the younger generation seem to love them.
Crikey - people are really touchy about iRacing aren't they?
On this note, I know someone who runs a team with two F3 cars and worked with some content creators to produce a completely faithful F3 car. The developers had full access to the cars, it was verified by the drivers, and having driven it I can vouch for it feeling fantastic. This car was available for free with Assetto Corsa. Now, I'm not suggested that iRacing should be free, or even cheap, but what I am suggesting is that they go to at least that much trouble to model cars accurately. Should they rely on people like me complaining after the event to get the basics right?
ribiero said:
You're the first.. FIRST person i've heard say they've not modelled the circuit in sufficient detail, i'm off to donny again tomorrow, i'll chuckle to myself every time I go through old hairpin..
That's not what I meant. I was trying to be brief to avoid derailing the thread. I'll expand if you must: the cars are clearly not in sufficient detail (as discussed already); the tracks are obviously laser scanned, but they were asking money for Silverstone despite it being the old version. I bought iRacing and Silverstone to practise prior to a race, only to discover it was the (very) old version of the track. iRacing then refused to give me a refund when I politely asked! I think they offered credits in the end, but it still didn't get me Silverstone. I just used Assetto Corsa in the end.ribiero said:
3) your FRren stuff which is based on what you know.. have you not taken this to their forums to post your information (and not use it as a rod to beat them with) they like working with race drivers and engineers on this thing, they have alpha testing where you can exactly feed back these kind of things, they might even give you an answer you're satisfied with.
I'm not "beating them with a rod", I'm merely posting my honest opinion. Is nobody allowed to criticise anything anymore? I'm fairly sure I did contact them, yes.On this note, I know someone who runs a team with two F3 cars and worked with some content creators to produce a completely faithful F3 car. The developers had full access to the cars, it was verified by the drivers, and having driven it I can vouch for it feeling fantastic. This car was available for free with Assetto Corsa. Now, I'm not suggested that iRacing should be free, or even cheap, but what I am suggesting is that they go to at least that much trouble to model cars accurately. Should they rely on people like me complaining after the event to get the basics right?
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 22 November 10:32
Kraken said:
Problem I have with sims is that I get no sensation of speed when approaching a braking zone or any feel of the car moving about on the limit. I use them to learn the basics of a new to me track before driving it in real life and nothing else really.
I expect a full motion setup so what I felt through my backside matched what I was seeing would be different but that's out of the reach of most. It's interesting that most older drivers (even in F1 etc) really don't like simulators at all whereas the younger generation seem to love them.
I expect a full motion setup so what I felt through my backside matched what I was seeing would be different but that's out of the reach of most. It's interesting that most older drivers (even in F1 etc) really don't like simulators at all whereas the younger generation seem to love them.
As discussed earlier, you have to learn to use other senses to detect what's happening. It's a lovely feeling getting in a real racing car, taking the first corner, and realising you have that easier pathway to knowing what's happening.The Assetto Corsa F3 team would be my brother and I.
The developers RSR appoached us and came out to Spa several times whilst we were racing. There were a lot of messages back and forth, photographs and measurements taken and the sim was tuned to corrolate against the real data our drivers were recording in real life - so if you drive it like a real car you'll do similar lap times to real life.
Both the Avon tyre that we were using to start with, and then the Pirellis that became the control tyre were modelled and refined as well.
It got pretty good feedback from all F3 drivers who have had a go (and are not susceptible to VR sickness)
The developers RSR appoached us and came out to Spa several times whilst we were racing. There were a lot of messages back and forth, photographs and measurements taken and the sim was tuned to corrolate against the real data our drivers were recording in real life - so if you drive it like a real car you'll do similar lap times to real life.
Both the Avon tyre that we were using to start with, and then the Pirellis that became the control tyre were modelled and refined as well.
It got pretty good feedback from all F3 drivers who have had a go (and are not susceptible to VR sickness)
andrewcliffe said:
The Assetto Corsa F3 team would be my brother and I.
The developers RSR appoached us and came out to Spa several times whilst we were racing. There were a lot of messages back and forth, photographs and measurements taken and the sim was tuned to corrolate against the real data our drivers were recording in real life - so if you drive it like a real car you'll do similar lap times to real life.
Both the Avon tyre that we were using to start with, and then the Pirellis that became the control tyre were modelled and refined as well.
It got pretty good feedback from all F3 drivers who have had a go (and are not susceptible to VR sickness)
The developers RSR appoached us and came out to Spa several times whilst we were racing. There were a lot of messages back and forth, photographs and measurements taken and the sim was tuned to corrolate against the real data our drivers were recording in real life - so if you drive it like a real car you'll do similar lap times to real life.
Both the Avon tyre that we were using to start with, and then the Pirellis that became the control tyre were modelled and refined as well.
It got pretty good feedback from all F3 drivers who have had a go (and are not susceptible to VR sickness)
It is indeed fantastic. I've not driven an F3 Dallara, but I have driven a few different single seaters and based on those, knowing people in F3 Cup, and knowing the cars a bit mechanically; it feels just so right. With VR it goes to another level, and genuinely feels like I'm in the car, but sadly I've got ten minutes before I get sick!
Kraken said:
Problem I have with sims is that I get no sensation of speed when approaching a braking zone or any feel of the car moving about on the limit. I use them to learn the basics of a new to me track before driving it in real life and nothing else really.
I expect a full motion setup so what I felt through my backside matched what I was seeing would be different but that's out of the reach of most. It's interesting that most older drivers (even in F1 etc) really don't like simulators at all whereas the younger generation seem to love them.
That is exactly where I was with screens and I just couldn't get on with the sim. Maybe after more practice, but even after a full day (albeit shared with 2 others), I still couldn't get it. For me the VR makes the difference. It really feels like I am driving a car. Hence my current interest!I expect a full motion setup so what I felt through my backside matched what I was seeing would be different but that's out of the reach of most. It's interesting that most older drivers (even in F1 etc) really don't like simulators at all whereas the younger generation seem to love them.
Bert
BertBert said:
Kraken said:
Problem I have with sims is that I get no sensation of speed when approaching a braking zone or any feel of the car moving about on the limit. I use them to learn the basics of a new to me track before driving it in real life and nothing else really.
I expect a full motion setup so what I felt through my backside matched what I was seeing would be different but that's out of the reach of most. It's interesting that most older drivers (even in F1 etc) really don't like simulators at all whereas the younger generation seem to love them.
That is exactly where I was with screens and I just couldn't get on with the sim. Maybe after more practice, but even after a full day (albeit shared with 2 others), I still couldn't get it. For me the VR makes the difference. It really feels like I am driving a car. Hence my current interest!I expect a full motion setup so what I felt through my backside matched what I was seeing would be different but that's out of the reach of most. It's interesting that most older drivers (even in F1 etc) really don't like simulators at all whereas the younger generation seem to love them.
Bert
). It sounds odd, but that's one of the first thoughts that enters my head on a test day. I suspect if you've driven racing cars your whole life and then suddenly jump in a sim, then that inferred feedback won't come that easily. I can definitely understand that. I don't know whether it'll come with time or not though...BertBert said:
That is exactly where I was with screens and I just couldn't get on with the sim. Maybe after more practice, but even after a full day (albeit shared with 2 others), I still couldn't get it. For me the VR makes the difference. It really feels like I am driving a car. Hence my current interest!
Bert
I use VR as well but it's still the same issue. Without the "seat of the pants" feel it's just nothing like a real car to me.Bert
RobM77 said:
As discussed earlier, you have to learn to use other senses to detect what's happening. It's a lovely feeling getting in a real racing car, taking the first corner, and realising you have that easier pathway to knowing what's happening.If you dont go down the VR route then Automobilista (AMS) is worth a look if feeling/force feedback is important to you. There are historic F1 cars (no wings 60's type and also 70's style) as well as more modern, plus Formula Vee included.
Have played a few of the racing sims and whilst others have better graphics I've found AMS to have the most realistic "feeling" to it. Being based on rFactor there are also a number of mod tracks available (ported to AMS) and a guy called Patrick Giranthon has created lots of decent tracks.
AMS is pretty cheap now on Steam as version 2 is due next year which will have VR support and higher quality graphics.
Have played a few of the racing sims and whilst others have better graphics I've found AMS to have the most realistic "feeling" to it. Being based on rFactor there are also a number of mod tracks available (ported to AMS) and a guy called Patrick Giranthon has created lots of decent tracks.
AMS is pretty cheap now on Steam as version 2 is due next year which will have VR support and higher quality graphics.
BertBert said:
That is exactly where I was with screens and I just couldn't get on with the sim. Maybe after more practice, but even after a full day (albeit shared with 2 others), I still couldn't get it. For me the VR makes the difference. It really feels like I am driving a car. Hence my current interest!
Bert
This evening, I watched the Brazilian GP highlights having watched the race last weekend at Williams and had a go on the SIM. I was amazed about how well I thought I knew the track after only 18 mins driving it on the SIM. I'm definitely a convert!Bert
Kraken said:
BertBert said:
That is exactly where I was with screens and I just couldn't get on with the sim. Maybe after more practice, but even after a full day (albeit shared with 2 others), I still couldn't get it. For me the VR makes the difference. It really feels like I am driving a car. Hence my current interest!
Bert
I use VR as well but it's still the same issue. Without the "seat of the pants" feel it's just nothing like a real car to me.Bert
RobM77 said:
As discussed earlier, you have to learn to use other senses to detect what's happening. It's a lovely feeling getting in a real racing car, taking the first corner, and realising you have that easier pathway to knowing what's happening. I reckon I'm about 0.5sec to maybe even 1.0sec per lap slower in a sim due to this. The consistency is much better in real life too: in real life in testing my laps are usually within a tenth of each other, but in a sim it's a few tenths.BertBert said:
RobM77 said:
What does the stress ECG entail Bert? At 42 I've never done one.
Missed this one. It's pretty simple. Strap on the leads, walk on the treadmill and it gets faster and steeper until you are "stressed". Just felt like it went on forever! I've got all this to come!Gassing Station | UK Club Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff