Big changes to MSA licences - Medicals

[Gc285]

ceesvdelst said:

I saw a thing from Belgium yesterday, it's called a champions day small little rally stage, loads of cars, presume offering rides etc.

Would also be a great way to introduce fans to marshalling, timekeeping, all sorts of things.

I recall a similar thing done in France a few years ago.

Seems there could be a lot more done instead of sitting there taking the money.

Id love to have a passenger in an actual race. It would be a buzz letting friends etc experience what I do

[ceesvdelst]

Agreed

Sadly the crowd from what I saw was not very big, but the old champions day at other venues used to get big crowds and all the stars came out to play. Imagine something at Silverstone that was free to get in and had Lewis, Kris Meeke, Elfyn, top BTCC and GT stars there. Rides, loads of different sim areas, trying to interest people in the voluntary side like timers, scrutes, marshals, don't just stand there at a stand, get people out there doing stuff, waving flags, helping out in situations safely supervised, it just takes some imagination and effort.

I have no idea why a company like MSUK wold be looking for sponsorship, surely they earn enough from all the things they charge for, unless they are just being opportunistic?

You have to engage with the audience, it can be done, but right now it's tough.

How do you combat that? Make it easy for kids to access, compete, try out.

Don't hide EVERYTHING behind vast, seemingly insurmountable paywalls as they do now.

I could afford to compete if I had some garage space and some storage space to hand for trailer,car etc. But even I had those I would not dream of doing MSA type motorsport, they bleed you before you have even sat on the start line, and for any progress to be made, that attitude has to change, as there are alternatives that offer more fun, cheaply.

[anonymous-user]

ginettajoe said:

On the subject of Oulton Park, the chief Instructor there is of the same opinion as myself, in that he will not renew his licence unless he has any intention of doing a race later in the year, which he may, or may not do!! I am in exactly the same situation, in thinking that if I don't race, I will save myself £150, and because I won't need a medical, if I choose to enter a race, I can renew my licence a couple of days prior to the meeting!! Several other people have said exactly the same, so I wonder what percentage of licence holders will withhold their money, which reduces the MSUK income!!

You need to have a race licence to participate in oficial test days at Oulton, or any other UK circuit, so how will he do his job without one?

If you don't renew your NatB race licence for 3 years, you have to retake the ARDS course to get your licence, if you had a higher level licence and not renewed for 5 years you have to take the ARDS written test, so not renewing has its costs if in future you plan to race again.

Part of the changes provide MSUK licence holders with insurance for 5 trackdays a year, which is a useful new benefit.

[Kraken]

ceesvdelst said:

Don't hide EVERYTHING behind vast, seemingly insurmountable paywalls as they do now.

What paywall?

[Oilchange]

My insurance covers me for five trackdays, not renewing for two years would save me £300 providing I dont race.
I renewed this year and last but have been unable to race for various reasons.
We’ll see how next year goes...

[anonymous-user]

Oilchange said:

My insurance covers me for five trackdays, not renewing for two years would save me £300 providing I dont race.
I renewed this year and last but have been unable to race for various reasons.
We’ll see how next year goes...

Mine gives me unlimited cover for the car during trackdays and sprints, but what the MSUK scheme provides is the same cover as if you were racing, which may give you different cover with regards to personal accident insurance.

[ginettajoe]

jsf said:

ginettajoe said:

On the subject of Oulton Park, the chief Instructor there is of the same opinion as myself, in that he will not renew his licence unless he has any intention of doing a race later in the year, which he may, or may not do!! I am in exactly the same situation, in thinking that if I don't race, I will save myself £150, and because I won't need a medical, if I choose to enter a race, I can renew my licence a couple of days prior to the meeting!! Several other people have said exactly the same, so I wonder what percentage of licence holders will withhold their money, which reduces the MSUK income!!

You need to have a race licence to participate in oficial test days at Oulton, or any other UK circuit, so how will he do his job without one?

If you don't renew your NatB race licence for 3 years, you have to retake the ARDS course to get your licence, if you had a higher level licence and not renewed for 5 years you have to take the ARDS written test, so not renewing has its costs if in future you plan to race again.

Part of the changes provide MSUK licence holders with insurance for 5 trackdays a year, which is a useful new benefit.

.... you are talking utter rubbish!!!

[anonymous-user]

ginettajoe said:

jsf said:

ginettajoe said:

On the subject of Oulton Park, the chief Instructor there is of the same opinion as myself, in that he will not renew his licence unless he has any intention of doing a race later in the year, which he may, or may not do!! I am in exactly the same situation, in thinking that if I don't race, I will save myself £150, and because I won't need a medical, if I choose to enter a race, I can renew my licence a couple of days prior to the meeting!! Several other people have said exactly the same, so I wonder what percentage of licence holders will withhold their money, which reduces the MSUK income!!

You need to have a race licence to participate in oficial test days at Oulton, or any other UK circuit, so how will he do his job without one?

If you don't renew your NatB race licence for 3 years, you have to retake the ARDS course to get your licence, if you had a higher level licence and not renewed for 5 years you have to take the ARDS written test, so not renewing has its costs if in future you plan to race again.

Part of the changes provide MSUK licence holders with insurance for 5 trackdays a year, which is a useful new benefit.

.... you are talking utter rubbish!!!

That's helpful.

Can you point out what is not correct and why?

[Zoobeef]

jsf said:

Part of the changes provide MSUK licence holders with insurance for 5 trackdays a year, which is a useful new benefit.

Just to be clear, that's personal accident insurance. Nothing to do with the vehicle.

[anonymous-user]

Zoobeef said:

Just to be clear, that's personal accident insurance. Nothing to do with the vehicle.

indeed, as is the case when racing under the same insurance scheme.

[ginettajoe]

jsf said:

ginettajoe said:

jsf said:

ginettajoe said:

On the subject of Oulton Park, the chief Instructor there is of the same opinion as myself, in that he will not renew his licence unless he has any intention of doing a race later in the year, which he may, or may not do!! I am in exactly the same situation, in thinking that if I don't race, I will save myself £150, and because I won't need a medical, if I choose to enter a race, I can renew my licence a couple of days prior to the meeting!! Several other people have said exactly the same, so I wonder what percentage of licence holders will withhold their money, which reduces the MSUK income!!

You need to have a race licence to participate in oficial test days at Oulton, or any other UK circuit, so how will he do his job without one?

If you don't renew your NatB race licence for 3 years, you have to retake the ARDS course to get your licence, if you had a higher level licence and not renewed for 5 years you have to take the ARDS written test, so not renewing has its costs if in future you plan to race again.

Part of the changes provide MSUK licence holders with insurance for 5 trackdays a year, which is a useful new benefit.

.... you are talking utter rubbish!!!

That's helpful.

Can you point out what is not correct and why?

..... you DO NOT require a race licence to participate as an instructor at any race circuit in the UK!! To sit with a driver on a test day, it is necessary to hold either an 'A' or 'S' grade ARDS licence.

Regarding your comment about renewing a race licence, many drivers have allowed their licence to lapse for many years, and and the only requirement is that they complete the written test if five or more years have passed since their last licence. If someone attends the ARDS NDTC ( ARDS Novice driver training course), applies for his or her National 'B' race licence, doesn't race at all, and doesn't renew his or her licence for more than a couple of years, then they have to complete the full ARDS course again

I don't want to quote anything regarding insurance, because nothing is clear at the present moment for various reasons!

I have held a race licence for 35 years, an Instructor licence for over 25 years, an 'S' grade for 15 years, and conducting ARDS courses for a similar period! I hope this clears up any confusion you have regarding ARDS Instructor and MSUK licencing.

[Zoobeef]

Just reading the personal accident insurance terms. Break your leg in a crash, here's £250. Wow that will go miles.

[anonymous-user]

ginettajoe said:

..... you DO NOT require a race licence to participate as an instructor at any race circuit in the UK!! To sit with a driver on a test day, it is necessary to hold either an 'A' or 'S' grade ARDS licence.

Regarding your comment about renewing a race licence, many drivers have allowed their licence to lapse for many years, and and the only requirement is that they complete the written test if five or more years have passed since their last licence. If someone attends the ARDS NDTC ( ARDS Novice driver training course), applies for his or her National 'B' race licence, doesn't race at all, and doesn't renew his or her licence for more than a couple of years, then they have to complete the full ARDS course again

I don't want to quote anything regarding insurance, because nothing is clear at the present moment for various reasons!

I have held a race licence for 35 years, an Instructor licence for over 25 years, an 'S' grade for 15 years, and conducting ARDS courses for a similar period! I hope this clears up any confusion you have regarding ARDS Instructor and MSUK licencing.

But you couldn't drive the car if the owner asked you for your input without holding a race licence.

The race licence renewal if lapsed rules are as i stated.

8.2.1. A competitor making an application for the
first time for a Race licence must obtain a novice race driver
‘Go Racing Driver Pack’, which contains the required application
form, from Motorsport UK and then complete an approved
course at a school registered with the Association of Racing
Drivers’ School (ARDS). The procedure to be followed is
contained in the ‘Pack’.

Exemptions from 8.2.1. are as follows:
8.2.2. Anyone who has held a Race National B or Interclub
licence at any time during 2017, 2018 or 2019. Competitors
who have not renewed or held a Race National B or Interclub
licence since 2016 must comply with the requirement for first
time applicants detailed above.
8.2.3. *Anyone who can provide proof of having ever held, or
entitled to hold, a Race licence of higher status than Restricted,
National ‘B’ or Interclub. Competitors who have not renewed
their licence for five years or more will be required to pass the
ARDS written examination.

So I wasn't talking utter rubbish was I !

[ginettajoe]

jsf said:

ginettajoe said:

..... you DO NOT require a race licence to participate as an instructor at any race circuit in the UK!! To sit with a driver on a test day, it is necessary to hold either an 'A' or 'S' grade ARDS licence.

Regarding your comment about renewing a race licence, many drivers have allowed their licence to lapse for many years, and and the only requirement is that they complete the written test if five or more years have passed since their last licence. If someone attends the ARDS NDTC ( ARDS Novice driver training course), applies for his or her National 'B' race licence, doesn't race at all, and doesn't renew his or her licence for more than a couple of years, then they have to complete the full ARDS course again

I don't want to quote anything regarding insurance, because nothing is clear at the present moment for various reasons!

I have held a race licence for 35 years, an Instructor licence for over 25 years, an 'S' grade for 15 years, and conducting ARDS courses for a similar period! I hope this clears up any confusion you have regarding ARDS Instructor and MSUK licencing.

But you couldn't drive the car if the owner asked you for your input without holding a race licence.

The race licence renewal if lapsed rules are as i stated.

8.2.1. A competitor making an application for the
first time for a Race licence must obtain a novice race driver
‘Go Racing Driver Pack’, which contains the required application
form, from Motorsport UK and then complete an approved
course at a school registered with the Association of Racing
Drivers’ School (ARDS). The procedure to be followed is
contained in the ‘Pack’.

Exemptions from 8.2.1. are as follows:
8.2.2. Anyone who has held a Race National B or Interclub
licence at any time during 2017, 2018 or 2019. Competitors
who have not renewed or held a Race National B or Interclub
licence since 2016 must comply with the requirement for first
time applicants detailed above.
8.2.3. *Anyone who can provide proof of having ever held, or
entitled to hold, a Race licence of higher status than Restricted,
National ‘B’ or Interclub. Competitors who have not renewed
their licence for five years or more will be required to pass the
ARDS written examination.

So I wasn't talking utter rubbish was I !

You are hard work!!

Why oh why, would the instructor want to drive someones race car on a test day???? There are normally four sessions through the day, and time is of an essence, especially if there are stoppages!!!

Showing what you have just shown confirms what I have just said!! I will add that even though some of these things are written, much is at the discretion of the MSUK and depending upon each individuals circumstances!!

[anonymous-user]

ginettajoe said:

You are hard work!!

Why oh why, would the instructor want to drive someones race car on a test day???? There are normally four sessions through the day, and time is of an essence, especially if there are stoppages!!!

Showing what you have just shown confirms what I have just said!! I will add that even though some of these things are written, much is at the discretion of the MSUK and depending upon each individuals circumstances!!

You told me what i wrote was rubbish, it wasn't was it. The fact that you subsequently wrote a similar thing to what i initially wrote which you labelled rubish, and now are telling me off for pointing out your initial statement was incorrect, is rather odd to say the least. I hope you have a better manner when sat in a car instructing.

I would have expected having the ability to instruct a driver by your own practical execution with you behind the wheel would be useful to a driver who was struggling to take onboard advice.

[ginettajoe]

jsf said:

ginettajoe said:

You are hard work!!

Why oh why, would the instructor want to drive someones race car on a test day???? There are normally four sessions through the day, and time is of an essence, especially if there are stoppages!!!

Showing what you have just shown confirms what I have just said!! I will add that even though some of these things are written, much is at the discretion of the MSUK and depending upon each individuals circumstances!!

You told me what i wrote was rubbish, it wasn't was it. The fact that you subsequently wrote a similar thing to what i initially wrote which you labelled rubish, and now are telling me off for pointing out your initial statement was incorrect, is rather odd to say the least. I hope you have a better manner when sat in a car instructing.

I would have expected having the ability to instruct a driver by your own practical execution with you behind the wheel would be useful to a driver who was struggling to take onboard advice.

....... sorry, I haven't the patience to even carry this on. I'll go back to where I started .... you are talking absolute rubbish!!

[anonymous-user]

ginettajoe said:

....... sorry, I haven't the patience to even carry this on. I'll go back to where I started .... you are talking absolute rubbish!!

You are weird.

[Dan BSCS]

jsf said:

ginettajoe said:

....... sorry, I haven't the patience to even carry this on. I'll go back to where I started .... you are talking absolute rubbish!!

You are weird.

You said, “You need to have a race licence to participate in oficial test days at Oulton, or any other UK circuit, so how will he do his job without one?”

That was incorrect as was pointed out. An ARDS instructor can “do his job” without a race licence.

You also said, “not renewing has its costs if in future you plan to race again.”

But if Nat B you could not renew for 2 years in a row, saving £200, with absolutely no extra cost should you plan to race again in the future. If Nat A you could not renew for 4 years in a row, saving over £600, with absolutely no extra cost should you plan to race again in the future.

So, yeah, you’re talking rubbish.

[pikeyboy]

alfapork said:

Did Nat B ever allow you to run outside of the UK?

As a UK licence holder, to race at Spa (or anywhere else outside UK) you need a Nat A or above.

I raced at spa with the mgcc, my second ever race so a nat B licence.

[Drumroll]

ceesvdelst said:

I could afford to compete if I had some garage space and some storage space to hand for trailer,car etc. But even I had those I would not dream of doing MSA type motorsport, they bleed you before you have even sat on the start line, and for any progress to be made, that attitude has to change, as there are alternatives that offer more fun, cheaply.

How do they"bleed you"?