Uk club racing after covid19?
Discussion
Jonathan Palmer’s view on some of these issues:
https://www.autosport.com/national/news/149278/pal...
https://www.autosport.com/national/news/149278/pal...
Drumroll said:
Again none of this is up to MSUK,
Don't forget the ACU will also be in the same boat. (looking for dates)
There are also all the track day companies (both 2 and 4 wheel),etc. So how on earth do you expect MSUK to tell a business what dates it allocates to your clubs meeting?
There was a time when on the weekend of the British GP no other events took place MSA (as they were then) wouldn't issue a permit. Then some of the circuits (and to be honest some of the clubs) said it wasn't fair.
How can MSUK underwrite ar guarantee some of the costs of running an event? They would need money to do that, money they do not have.
Again I ask how do you expect the MSUK to make that sort of decision?
I understand you want to race and I know a lot others want to compete too. In events like sprints, hillclimbs rallies, autotests, karting as well as racing. I just don't see how any "interference" could be done fairly.
I want to make sure that the club racing voice is being heard in these discussions about circuit availability and the only real way to ensure that is that the governing body are representing us correctly. They can certainly ask circuits to consider the club racer even if they can't mandate it. MUK do have money, approx 15mill - a raining day fund I am lead to believe,Don't forget the ACU will also be in the same boat. (looking for dates)
There are also all the track day companies (both 2 and 4 wheel),etc. So how on earth do you expect MSUK to tell a business what dates it allocates to your clubs meeting?
There was a time when on the weekend of the British GP no other events took place MSA (as they were then) wouldn't issue a permit. Then some of the circuits (and to be honest some of the clubs) said it wasn't fair.
How can MSUK underwrite ar guarantee some of the costs of running an event? They would need money to do that, money they do not have.
Again I ask how do you expect the MSUK to make that sort of decision?
I understand you want to race and I know a lot others want to compete too. In events like sprints, hillclimbs rallies, autotests, karting as well as racing. I just don't see how any "interference" could be done fairly.
However as with the above post, it looks like MSV know which side of the bread is buttered, as they are looking to allow trackdays and club racing on site first. Which would make sense as this provides an income, whereas BTCC costs, especially if there are no spectators.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Kraken said:
They already exist and are doing very nicely.
interested to know which championships you are talking about. I can't think of any where there is no outside help allowed.By the way, do I need to get all the skills necessary to build, prep and run cars in your club racing world? Could you fix that for me please? Also I need quite a lot more time. Oh and space for a trailer. Also I don't seem to have enough friends to help run my car. Can I have a better personality please so I get some more friends?
Ta
Bert
^^^^ I’d be interested to know that one as well.
Having competed in a club endurance championship with me, a couple mates and our wives as the team, we were one of only a handful doing it that way from grids of 40 cars. Even the series racing I’ve done is typically 50-75% professionally supported.
On the question of which series will get priority booking it’s clearly unrealistic to expect or hope the BTCC/BSB etc will not get first shout at bookings same as they do on every normal year. Clubs will get second go and the TDOs will hoover up the rest. From an ease of logistics POV it would be exactly the other way round.
Having competed in a club endurance championship with me, a couple mates and our wives as the team, we were one of only a handful doing it that way from grids of 40 cars. Even the series racing I’ve done is typically 50-75% professionally supported.
On the question of which series will get priority booking it’s clearly unrealistic to expect or hope the BTCC/BSB etc will not get first shout at bookings same as they do on every normal year. Clubs will get second go and the TDOs will hoover up the rest. From an ease of logistics POV it would be exactly the other way round.
Not necessarily Steve H.
Stuart Higgs - series and race director (and MSVR employee) of BSB has already said that running without a crowd isn't what BSB is about and it doesn't make economic sense. Presumably his boss, Mr P., who now has to personally approve all expenditure over £10 and personally checks the electricity consumption amounts for each circuit every week, has laid that rule down also.
Currently there is no chance that the Government will allow the usual large crowds at BSB, whatever Mr P. says about having 400 acres at Brands Hatch, because you can't see the track from the whole 400 acres as he well knows, and people will still crowd together in the usual best vantage spots!
That might change by say September, so it would make sense to allow some small club meetings in July and August, which have a crowd of basically no one, but collect some circuit hire fees, so that Mr P doesn't have to fret about spending a tenner or why Snetterton has used 1kw more than Oulton in the same week. (I wonder if he is now fretting about how much juice his twin jet-engined helicoper uses!) and that will then leave September and October free for the big meetings with big crowds.
Stuart Higgs - series and race director (and MSVR employee) of BSB has already said that running without a crowd isn't what BSB is about and it doesn't make economic sense. Presumably his boss, Mr P., who now has to personally approve all expenditure over £10 and personally checks the electricity consumption amounts for each circuit every week, has laid that rule down also.
Currently there is no chance that the Government will allow the usual large crowds at BSB, whatever Mr P. says about having 400 acres at Brands Hatch, because you can't see the track from the whole 400 acres as he well knows, and people will still crowd together in the usual best vantage spots!
That might change by say September, so it would make sense to allow some small club meetings in July and August, which have a crowd of basically no one, but collect some circuit hire fees, so that Mr P doesn't have to fret about spending a tenner or why Snetterton has used 1kw more than Oulton in the same week. (I wonder if he is now fretting about how much juice his twin jet-engined helicoper uses!) and that will then leave September and October free for the big meetings with big crowds.
Edited by LucyP on Wednesday 6th May 14:16
Only if there is money to be made Steve H, which is going to be difficult if you are Palmer and you own the circuits and the series, so you cannot really charge yourself a circuit hire fee. No crowd - no ticket sales, no camping sales, no food/drink sales, no merchandise stall rent, no programme sales.
Steve H said:
^^^^ I’d be interested to know that one as well.
Having competed in a club endurance championship with me, a couple mates and our wives as the team, we were one of only a handful doing it that way from grids of 40 cars. Even the series racing I’ve done is typically 50-75% professionally supported.
On the question of which series will get priority booking it’s clearly unrealistic to expect or hope the BTCC/BSB etc will not get first shout at bookings same as they do on every normal year. Clubs will get second go and the TDOs will hoover up the rest. From an ease of logistics POV it would be exactly the other way round.
I've raced the the last 4 years with the AFRC and some races with Track Attack and 750mc Roadsports. Id say its atleast 75% blokes and their other halfs with the odd mate thrown in.Having competed in a club endurance championship with me, a couple mates and our wives as the team, we were one of only a handful doing it that way from grids of 40 cars. Even the series racing I’ve done is typically 50-75% professionally supported.
On the question of which series will get priority booking it’s clearly unrealistic to expect or hope the BTCC/BSB etc will not get first shout at bookings same as they do on every normal year. Clubs will get second go and the TDOs will hoover up the rest. From an ease of logistics POV it would be exactly the other way round.
If my car doesn't need anything between quali and a race then I'm helping out another competitor, certainly wouldn't be doing that if they all had race teams.
Lucy, I think they will look at it in the context of the overall season. If they wait to get full or nearly full audiences they will struggle to run anything that looks like a real championship. Not ideal to be risking losses on the first events but if it means running enough overall to keep the sponsors and fans interested I wouldn’t be surprised if they got going irrespective of restrictions at the time. They also do have to plan events in advance and if they wait for permission it will be too late to get the events sorted so they are going to have to cross their fingers and pick a date at some point.
ZB. AFRC is an anomaly for sure being armed forces based but I’ve done a lot of Roadsports and have seen the team-run element increase over the years, I’d say it’s well above the 25% you are suggesting and on a weekend where Enduro is on the next day it’s hugely above.
ZB. AFRC is an anomaly for sure being armed forces based but I’ve done a lot of Roadsports and have seen the team-run element increase over the years, I’d say it’s well above the 25% you are suggesting and on a weekend where Enduro is on the next day it’s hugely above.
Steve H - They cannot get going if the Government says they cannot. That will be a PR disaster if they sell the tickets in the hope of, and then have to turn people away at the gate. Look what happened in Melbourne with the F1 this year, when they left it to the minimum wage security staff at the gate, on the day to turn everyone away. There were some pretty ugly scenes!
If Palmer is personally fretting over £10 of expenses and the electricity consumption each week, then he will be doing the maths as to how much a BSB race with no crowd will cost him to put on, and I cannot see him agreeing to something that pushes the balance further into the red. He has to find a way that is at least cost neutral, and doesn't use any electricity!
If Palmer is personally fretting over £10 of expenses and the electricity consumption each week, then he will be doing the maths as to how much a BSB race with no crowd will cost him to put on, and I cannot see him agreeing to something that pushes the balance further into the red. He has to find a way that is at least cost neutral, and doesn't use any electricity!
The likelihood of events taking place with vary significantly depending on the venue and also the type of event being hosted.
A smaller club meeting, which would draw an almost zero crowd in any place, may be viable at certain venues. All dependent on their being enough competitors and officials of course, and being allowed. However, putting on a significant BTCC / BSB event is a whole different ball game and there would need to be a lot of promoter / TV money pumped in. It's basically an entirely different sport and there are many different challenges (all of which will cost).
On a different subject, the level of professional input does vary considerably depending on the series. But it's always there and there certainly won't be any series where it's 100% competitor prepped only.
A smaller club meeting, which would draw an almost zero crowd in any place, may be viable at certain venues. All dependent on their being enough competitors and officials of course, and being allowed. However, putting on a significant BTCC / BSB event is a whole different ball game and there would need to be a lot of promoter / TV money pumped in. It's basically an entirely different sport and there are many different challenges (all of which will cost).
On a different subject, the level of professional input does vary considerably depending on the series. But it's always there and there certainly won't be any series where it's 100% competitor prepped only.
Some good points raised here since I am/was supposed to start my first year club racing. Things were getting tight with a test day booked 2wks before my first race at Silverstone. Covid-19 has alleviated some pressure and enabled me to get my finances in better order which I wasn't expecting...
Now I would be grateful if I could get a couple of races done this year to gain some experience and hope for a full season next year. I guess we'll wait to see how the announcement goes and plays out, all it takes is another peak on the chart and we are all back to square one.
Now I would be grateful if I could get a couple of races done this year to gain some experience and hope for a full season next year. I guess we'll wait to see how the announcement goes and plays out, all it takes is another peak on the chart and we are all back to square one.
k20ris said:
Some good points raised here since I am/was supposed to start my first year club racing. Things were getting tight with a test day booked 2wks before my first race at Silverstone. Covid-19 has alleviated some pressure and enabled me to get my finances in better order which I wasn't expecting...
Now I would be grateful if I could get a couple of races done this year to gain some experience and hope for a full season next year. I guess we'll wait to see how the announcement goes and plays out, all it takes is another peak on the chart and we are all back to square one.
Strangely enough I’m in the same boat, was missing the first couple of rounds to give me time to test the new car before doing a half season. Now I would be grateful if I could get a couple of races done this year to gain some experience and hope for a full season next year. I guess we'll wait to see how the announcement goes and plays out, all it takes is another peak on the chart and we are all back to square one.
My only curve ball is my main business is within Motorsport so our busiest part of the year had been decimated ...that said it’s not all I do so fingers crossed.
Looking at the bigger picture and talking to customers/ friends they’re all chomping at the bit to get going, currently not had any conversations which involve people scaling back dramatically. Fingers crossed :-)
I agree with SteveH above that YES a lot of cars are run by teams.....however Mazda Motorsport club (Max5 as was) is marketed at the single man & his van setup.....ALL the cars last season were independantly run with support/help from fellow races if needed.
It's certainly going to be a strange season.
Keep safe everyone.
It's certainly going to be a strange season.
Keep safe everyone.
Mind you, here's MUK's positive message...
MUK said:
Thursday 07 May 2020
Motorsport UK, like other sports governing bodies, has been planning how it will be possible to restart our sport in the not too distant future – whilst working within the prevailing government guidelines. As official government communications begin to indicate a gradual release of the lockdown, we need to plan how to best resume our activities as quickly as we can.
Currently motorsport is suspended throughout the UK until 30th June 2020 in order to protect the NHS and save lives. This is in line with practically every sport in the country.
This planning is being undertaken in consultation with a wide selection of stakeholders including the specialist committees of each sport discipline. The organisation is actively modelling how each of the sport’s eleven different competition categories could potentially begin to restart motorsport when it is safe and practical to do so.
Motorsport UK CEO, Hugh Chambers commented, “I thank all of the motorsport community for supporting the need to suspend our activities; we appreciate just how difficult this has been for many individuals and organisations. Our goal is to get the sport running again as fast as practically possible. We are working with the government (DCMS) and have led the development of a detailed plan that can be used by clubs, officials, venues and competitors to manage events safely and successfully.
“We are fortunate that our sport takes place in large outdoor environments, so that with practical measures in place, much of motorsport should be able to resume. We will all need to modify the way we have worked in the past and accept these changes in a collaborative and constructive way. I am sure that the ingenuity and passion of the motorsport community will allow us to navigate the essential requirements to keep everyone safe, but at the same time allow our sport to get going again.”
Motorsport UK, like other sports governing bodies, has been planning how it will be possible to restart our sport in the not too distant future – whilst working within the prevailing government guidelines. As official government communications begin to indicate a gradual release of the lockdown, we need to plan how to best resume our activities as quickly as we can.
Currently motorsport is suspended throughout the UK until 30th June 2020 in order to protect the NHS and save lives. This is in line with practically every sport in the country.
This planning is being undertaken in consultation with a wide selection of stakeholders including the specialist committees of each sport discipline. The organisation is actively modelling how each of the sport’s eleven different competition categories could potentially begin to restart motorsport when it is safe and practical to do so.
Motorsport UK CEO, Hugh Chambers commented, “I thank all of the motorsport community for supporting the need to suspend our activities; we appreciate just how difficult this has been for many individuals and organisations. Our goal is to get the sport running again as fast as practically possible. We are working with the government (DCMS) and have led the development of a detailed plan that can be used by clubs, officials, venues and competitors to manage events safely and successfully.
“We are fortunate that our sport takes place in large outdoor environments, so that with practical measures in place, much of motorsport should be able to resume. We will all need to modify the way we have worked in the past and accept these changes in a collaborative and constructive way. I am sure that the ingenuity and passion of the motorsport community will allow us to navigate the essential requirements to keep everyone safe, but at the same time allow our sport to get going again.”
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