Safety car - detracts or improves the race?
Discussion
During the borefest that was Sunday's GP, they brought out the safety car whilst the front runners were over a lap ahead. One of the commentators (I forget who) complained that allowing lapped cars to pass the front runners and safety car made for a worse race.
I beg to differ. I watch F1 because I want to see close racing, not Hamilton get ahead and then just stay there with no change in the front runners' running order. The interesting racing this year is usually between 6th and 14th places.
When the safety car bunches up the pack, it effectively ups the excitement factor once the sc goes back in. It adds factors such as the cars at the front having colder tyres than the cars further back at restart. It staves off the blue flags and the submission that comes with them.
Does anyone agree, or care to counter my view?
I beg to differ. I watch F1 because I want to see close racing, not Hamilton get ahead and then just stay there with no change in the front runners' running order. The interesting racing this year is usually between 6th and 14th places.
When the safety car bunches up the pack, it effectively ups the excitement factor once the sc goes back in. It adds factors such as the cars at the front having colder tyres than the cars further back at restart. It staves off the blue flags and the submission that comes with them.
Does anyone agree, or care to counter my view?
donkmeister said:
During the borefest that was Sunday's GP, they brought out the safety car whilst the front runners were over a lap ahead. One of the commentators (I forget who) complained that allowing lapped cars to pass the front runners and safety car made for a worse race.
I beg to differ. I watch F1 because I want to see close racing, not Hamilton get ahead and then just stay there with no change in the front runners' running order. The interesting racing this year is usually between 6th and 14th places.
When the safety car bunches up the pack, it effectively ups the excitement factor once the sc goes back in. It adds factors such as the cars at the front having colder tyres than the cars further back at restart. It staves off the blue flags and the submission that comes with them.
Does anyone agree, or care to counter my view?
I beg to differ. I watch F1 because I want to see close racing, not Hamilton get ahead and then just stay there with no change in the front runners' running order. The interesting racing this year is usually between 6th and 14th places.
When the safety car bunches up the pack, it effectively ups the excitement factor once the sc goes back in. It adds factors such as the cars at the front having colder tyres than the cars further back at restart. It staves off the blue flags and the submission that comes with them.
Does anyone agree, or care to counter my view?
If you thought Sundays race was a borefest then I'm afraid F1 isn't for you.
sandman77 said:
donkmeister said:
During the borefest that was Sunday's GP, they brought out the safety car whilst the front runners were over a lap ahead. One of the commentators (I forget who) complained that allowing lapped cars to pass the front runners and safety car made for a worse race.
I beg to differ. I watch F1 because I want to see close racing, not Hamilton get ahead and then just stay there with no change in the front runners' running order. The interesting racing this year is usually between 6th and 14th places.
When the safety car bunches up the pack, it effectively ups the excitement factor once the sc goes back in. It adds factors such as the cars at the front having colder tyres than the cars further back at restart. It staves off the blue flags and the submission that comes with them.
Does anyone agree, or care to counter my view?
I beg to differ. I watch F1 because I want to see close racing, not Hamilton get ahead and then just stay there with no change in the front runners' running order. The interesting racing this year is usually between 6th and 14th places.
When the safety car bunches up the pack, it effectively ups the excitement factor once the sc goes back in. It adds factors such as the cars at the front having colder tyres than the cars further back at restart. It staves off the blue flags and the submission that comes with them.
Does anyone agree, or care to counter my view?
If you thought Sundays race was a borefest then I'm afraid F1 isn't for you.
carinaman said:
If its questionable deployment makes F1 less safe with regard to tyre temperatures and tyre pressures perhaps it should be renamed the Show Car?
I said the same on the day. It was totally unnecessary in the end. The justification is that the car was smoking so 'could' have caught fire so it was safer to send the car out than take the risk. But also it did force the cars to lose tyre temp... So they sent it out because it could potentially have made a situation a bit safer, but at the same time was guaranteed to make the remaining cars less safe. If the decision was really about potential safety issues then overall I would say the best thing to do was not send it out. At least not unless the stricken car had actually caught fire. VSC was all that was required.donkmeister said:
During the borefest that was Sunday's GP, they brought out the safety car whilst the front runners were over a lap ahead. One of the commentators (I forget who) complained that allowing lapped cars to pass the front runners and safety car made for a worse race.
I beg to differ. I watch F1 because I want to see close racing, not Hamilton get ahead and then just stay there with no change in the front runners' running order. The interesting racing this year is usually between 6th and 14th places.
When the safety car bunches up the pack, it effectively ups the excitement factor once the sc goes back in. It adds factors such as the cars at the front having colder tyres than the cars further back at restart. It staves off the blue flags and the submission that comes with them.
Does anyone agree, or care to counter my view?
When was F1 about close racing and no one getting out ahead? As others have said, if that's what you're looking you're watching the wrong motorsport series and posting in the wrong forum.I beg to differ. I watch F1 because I want to see close racing, not Hamilton get ahead and then just stay there with no change in the front runners' running order. The interesting racing this year is usually between 6th and 14th places.
When the safety car bunches up the pack, it effectively ups the excitement factor once the sc goes back in. It adds factors such as the cars at the front having colder tyres than the cars further back at restart. It staves off the blue flags and the submission that comes with them.
Does anyone agree, or care to counter my view?
How about instead of bringing out the safety car to bunch everyone back up, we only make the race 5 laps long? What the point in the race prior to the safety car, apart from to slightly jumble up the grid based on whether the drivers are lucky enough with when they pitted. Maybe we could just get the drivers flip a coin after qualifying. Heads you move up a grid space, tails you move down one.
Didn't make it more exciting imo because so many cars pitted for tyres under the SC, particularly robbed us of the battle for 3rd place with Perez chasing Ricciardo on fresher tyres. Slightly conflicted in that opinion though as I was very pleased to see Ricciardo get a podium.
There tends to be plenty to interest me towards the end of a race as different tyre compunds and degradation plays out, so if their intent was to provide entertainment then neutralising that aspect had the opposite effect for me.
There tends to be plenty to interest me towards the end of a race as different tyre compunds and degradation plays out, so if their intent was to provide entertainment then neutralising that aspect had the opposite effect for me.
A safety car can bring added intrigue to a race or neuter it depending upon the dynamics surrounding its deployment. Overall it adds a dimension that's unpredictable.
In truth, it's designed to do neither and nor do I think decisions are made on the basis how the race is unfolding, although it may seem so at the time.
In truth, it's designed to do neither and nor do I think decisions are made on the basis how the race is unfolding, although it may seem so at the time.
The SC is there for a good reason - safety of competitors and marshals.
Using it to improve the “show”, like a NASCAR - style “Competition Caution” has sadly been seen too much over the past year or so. I called it as soon as the McLaren pulled off the track on Sunday, knowing that it would take about six laps to get everyone back lined up. There was no reason a VSC couldn’t have been used to clear that car, it was way off the track next to a marshal post and a crane.
Safety cars can also breed safety cars, as we saw at Mugello, which can make things more dangerous for everyone, not to mention the cold tyres everyone had last weekend. The SC also shouldn’t be told to slow down, there’s enough of a delta between the SC and the F1 cars as it is, he needs to be driving it on the door handles.
Using it to improve the “show”, like a NASCAR - style “Competition Caution” has sadly been seen too much over the past year or so. I called it as soon as the McLaren pulled off the track on Sunday, knowing that it would take about six laps to get everyone back lined up. There was no reason a VSC couldn’t have been used to clear that car, it was way off the track next to a marshal post and a crane.
Safety cars can also breed safety cars, as we saw at Mugello, which can make things more dangerous for everyone, not to mention the cold tyres everyone had last weekend. The SC also shouldn’t be told to slow down, there’s enough of a delta between the SC and the F1 cars as it is, he needs to be driving it on the door handles.
To answer the question in the title then it is completely dependant on the race as it is unfolding. It isn't always better or worse.
There are some races where a safety car leaves fasters cars out of position and they have to come through the field with a range of strategies. I would say that improves the racing as it adds another dimension which is fun to watch.
However there are some races where the safety car ruins it. Such as last weekend where Perez was chasing down Ricciardo and we were set for a close finish. All the safety car did was mean they both put new tyres on and that possible drama was taken away. All it did was mask the fact that everyone was over a minute behind the top two on pure pace.
So does it make it better or worse? Both, depending on the way the race has played out prior to its deployment.
There are some races where a safety car leaves fasters cars out of position and they have to come through the field with a range of strategies. I would say that improves the racing as it adds another dimension which is fun to watch.
However there are some races where the safety car ruins it. Such as last weekend where Perez was chasing down Ricciardo and we were set for a close finish. All the safety car did was mean they both put new tyres on and that possible drama was taken away. All it did was mask the fact that everyone was over a minute behind the top two on pure pace.
So does it make it better or worse? Both, depending on the way the race has played out prior to its deployment.
What they need to do is just say they're bringing it out for entertainment and let everyone just go at racing speed until they catch up the pack back up, the safety car doing 60mph while the others are driving to the safety car delta trying to catch up when the incident was cleared before the safety car was even with the leader was just bulls
t and made f1 look like a laughing stock
t and made f1 look like a laughing stock Sandpit Steve said:
Safety cars can also breed safety cars, as we saw at Mugello, which can make things more dangerous for everyone, not to mention the cold tyres everyone had last weekend. The SC also shouldn’t be told to slow down, there’s enough of a delta between the SC and the F1 cars as it is, he needs to be driving it on the door handles.
SC need to drive slowly now and then eg.- Straight after deployment to allow cars running a slow delta to catch the train ASAP - giving the stewards maximum time and space to work safely (and minimise time under SC)
- Driving past the incident
- Extreme weather eg. risk of aquaplaning
LeoSayer said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Safety cars can also breed safety cars, as we saw at Mugello, which can make things more dangerous for everyone, not to mention the cold tyres everyone had last weekend. The SC also shouldn’t be told to slow down, there’s enough of a delta between the SC and the F1 cars as it is, he needs to be driving it on the door handles.
SC need to drive slowly now and then eg.- Straight after deployment to allow cars running a slow delta to catch the train ASAP - giving the stewards maximum time and space to work safely (and minimise time under SC)
- Driving past the incident
- Extreme weather eg. risk of aquaplaning
There's been a few times this season where he suddenly dropped 20 or 30 seconds a lap though, for no obvious reason other than minimising the number of laps he was out, hiding the fact that the cleanup was going slowly with a reduced number of marshals, as at Silverstone.
I've thought in recent times that the safety car has been used to artificially spice up a dull race. I don't think this is a good idea because if fans start to think that the racing is contrived they will switch off (mentally rather than literally).
One of the things that appeals to me about the racing is anticipating how things may pan out, If a legitimate safety car gets called then fair enough but if a safety car gets called in an effort to bunch up the field then that's just false racing and it doesn't appeal.
I think the physical safety car for clearing Lando Norris' car at the Nurburgring was overkill, I think it could have been done under VSC very easily and without excessive danger to track workers, but I think the decision was taken in an effort to bunch the field, but given the temperatures that day it was quite dangerous to be at safety car pace. Listening to Hamilton and Max on the radio had echoes of Senna driving alongside the safety car at Imola in 1994, and I don't think anyone wants a repeat of what happened that day (whatever your belief in what caused that accident).
One of the things that appeals to me about the racing is anticipating how things may pan out, If a legitimate safety car gets called then fair enough but if a safety car gets called in an effort to bunch up the field then that's just false racing and it doesn't appeal.
I think the physical safety car for clearing Lando Norris' car at the Nurburgring was overkill, I think it could have been done under VSC very easily and without excessive danger to track workers, but I think the decision was taken in an effort to bunch the field, but given the temperatures that day it was quite dangerous to be at safety car pace. Listening to Hamilton and Max on the radio had echoes of Senna driving alongside the safety car at Imola in 1994, and I don't think anyone wants a repeat of what happened that day (whatever your belief in what caused that accident).
majordad said:
Replace the safety car with a Bulldozer, shovel the 5hit away fast. They do this on the motorways in Oz
On a more serious note many of Hamilton’s and others wins have come from a lucky safety car deployment
A giant drone with a hook hanging below to pick the car up, wherever it is. On a more serious note many of Hamilton’s and others wins have come from a lucky safety car deployment
When it's not helping anyone else it can just hover around above Seb's car waiting for the inevitable spin and crunch.
(sadly that drone only lifts 400kg, but I'm sure someone could build one that could lift an F1 car)
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