Where Have All The Racing Cars Gone?

Where Have All The Racing Cars Gone?

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Discussion

ChevronB19

5,737 posts

162 months

Wednesday 31st August 2022
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Chunkychucky said:
Good to know, thanks for that Ed - sounds like I need to take another mugging at the hands of Mr Turpin at some point...

As an aside, did you get to the HRDC meeting at Castle Combe? Heard Charles Knill-Jones had a big one, as he was entered in an A35 would have been interested to know if his accident was attributable failing on the car... eek Hope he's alright!

Also - having seen a picture of the paddock from the meeting, it really served to illustrate the number of people that pay 'The Jordanians', Westbourne Motorsport, CCK Historic et al fees to prep their cars/take them to the meetings in their massive trucks. Didn't appear to be anywhere near as many 'privateers' with 1 car/1 trailer in the paddock frown
Ha, I’m not Ed, I’m his son!

Chunkychucky

Original Poster:

5,942 posts

168 months

Wednesday 31st August 2022
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ChevronB19 said:
Ha, I’m not Ed, I’m his son!
st! Sorry, Chris rofl

confucuis

1,303 posts

123 months

Sunday 29th January 2023
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Bit of a thread revival but I think about this thread a lot over the last while over here in Ireland.

It's not just race cars but rally cars as well. Where do the all go? Are they all crashed and scrapped or cannibalised for parts?

I was looking over past entries for my local rally, the entry list was full of mini;s, mk2's + mk1s. chevettes, 205's. Would they all have been crashed over the years, have really none survived?

Even my own Punto race car which was part of its' own class in Mondello where there was 30+ of these cars flying round. Do you think I can find any of these for spares? No! And again, surely some have survived.

A friend of mine bought a civic rally car recently for below market value, he suggested to me the trick was to know someone who might know someone etc, there are cars sitting in sheds all around the country. The owners tell themselves they will get back on the horse but really just need that little push in the form of an extra bit of cash!

ribiero

539 posts

165 months

Monday 30th January 2023
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Great thread this smile I'm a sucker for an ebay sourced racecar with racing heritage then subsequently hiding it in a barn!

Dynion Araf Uchaf

4,422 posts

222 months

Monday 30th January 2023
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I'm sure PH used to have a race car classified section.

As for old race cars, a lot do get split up for parts. Generally the value of the whole is a lot less than the value of the parts, especially custom or race parts or the OE optimal parts like a specific gearbox.

coppice

8,561 posts

143 months

Tuesday 31st January 2023
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One might equally ask , where did all the old racing cars suddenly spring from ? I had hardly ever seen a pukka Formula Junior until probably the late nineties , but there were nearly sixty at Silverstone Classic last year . Of course some racing cars aren't old at all - as they say , of the 3000 Lotus Cortinas made , 5000 survive ... And even if your old racer is original , it is not race-worthy now unless significant work is done to make it eligible to race now - shades of Triggers Broom or for the classically inclined the Ship of Theseus .

And some languish the decades away in not so genteel decline in draughty sheds . Half a mile from home is such a shed and back in the late 80s it had a Toleman TG280 in residence , owned by the father of a colleague . It may still be there for all I know

ChevronB19

5,737 posts

162 months

Tuesday 31st January 2023
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coppice said:
One might equally ask , where did all the old racing cars suddenly spring from ? I had hardly ever seen a pukka Formula Junior until probably the late nineties , but there were nearly sixty at Silverstone Classic last year . Of course some racing cars aren't old at all - as they say , of the 3000 Lotus Cortinas made , 5000 survive ... And even if your old racer is original , it is not race-worthy now unless significant work is done to make it eligible to race now - shades of Triggers Broom or for the classically inclined the Ship of Theseus .

And some languish the decades away in not so genteel decline in draughty sheds . Half a mile from home is such a shed and back in the late 80s it had a Toleman TG280 in residence , owned by the father of a colleague . It may still be there for all I know
It was a very bad idea when they allowed (for example) a boggo Cortina to be built into a LC and get papers, especially given that in some cases (which we have personally experienced) we couldn’t get FIA papers for a genuine (and nearly unique) race car with proven race history, just not at an international meeting.

So you can build granny’s 1300 Cortina Mk1 into a fire breathing, fully papered monster, but a genuine sportscar can’t.

I do know, however, that most modsports cars of the day have been reincarnated into their original F2 single seater status, all about the cash. Understandable, but a shame as I loved modsports.

Kickstart

1,061 posts

236 months

Friday 3rd February 2023
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coppice said:
One might equally ask , where did all the old racing cars suddenly spring from ? I had hardly ever seen a pukka Formula Junior until probably the late nineties , but there were nearly sixty at Silverstone Classic last year
Didn't Duncan own them all hehe

Notshortnottall

589 posts

183 months

Tuesday 7th February 2023
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I have first-hand experience of this. Previously it was money (I was a proper shoestring racer) that kept me from getting out and about - but I still made it as much as I could. However, now it's principally time which is the problem. I had a shunt a few years back which wrote off the monocoque and although I managed to source another (ended up actually with 2 cars - which is a longer story!), I have a young family, a very demanding job and a busy life in general.

This means I can barely find the time to do any work on building the car(s) up, let alone taking long weekends to travel to the likes of Brands (a 14-16 hour round trip) - at considerable expense. I don't think I'm alone in that and a lot of people are racing on tiny budgets that they find by hook or by crook because they just love it so much. By the time I've done the tea, bath and bed routines through the week it's nearly 9pm and I'[m knackered. Weekends are taken up with clubs / activities / housework etc. etc. which leaves minimal time to do anything on the car. I'm resigned to the fact I'll have to pay people to build / prep for me - which is a bit gutting as I love working on them.

Don't get me wrong - I still love it and the just talking about the prospect of doing it gets me all tingly and excited, but I have to couple that with the reality of having just received a £600 bill for gas and electricity last month, a £275p/m mortgage increase and other assorted lashings to my disposable income. That being said, it's still much less about money for me (obviously it's always a limiting factor to an extent) but if that's representative of the pressures the average Joe is feeling then that's only going to force people to keep them garaged.

Dynion Araf Uchaf

4,422 posts

222 months

Tuesday 7th February 2023
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and entry fees have gone up quite a bit. I always said to myself that once fees were routinely at £400 I'd have to knock the racing on the head. And we're there today for some events - 750MC and those that aren't are £385. Even Mallory is £345!

and then I total it up and I think if I limit myself to just 3-4 events and choose the ones most local, and I don't have a crash or a blow up then I could probably do those races for 3-4k. Could I find 3-4k? Probably. So of course I am signing up and doing some races.

garypotter

1,483 posts

149 months

Thursday 9th February 2023
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interesting thread and agree with the previous comments. I was at Brands hatch the end of last year watching the classic touring cars from 60's mk 2 jaguars to Taxaco liveried RS500 (Hmmmmm) there was not a huge field but there was ayoung kid in a modern Mini track car using the weekend as a practice day and drove into the back of two cars. The RS500 owners were not happy as they had just finishes a full rebuild and now they needed bodywork bumper and rear light cluster.

For them the parts will be bloody expensive and hard to find where as the front end of the new mini will be an off the shelf part. So an expensive day for a couple of racers BUT it was so good to show my 14 year old daughter the RS500 with flames spitting out of the side exit exhaust. There was also a very early Mini who was going round corners on 3 wheels very enteratining.

I guess it comes down to time and money with all things in life

Dewi 2

1,304 posts

64 months

Sunday 30th April 2023
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Tim Dodwell (a well known club racer, who still races his bought when new, 1966 grey/white Mini Cooper) started the Road Saloons racing series in 1983.

The concept was low cost racing, restricted by driving on the road to each event. Those circumstances required tuning limitations, because very highly tuned engines would not usually be very suitable for use on public roads.
The series became so successful, that the classes were split into two races for Budget Road Saloons and Super Road Saloons..

All went well for a number of years, but eventually the Super competitors wanted trailers to be allowed.
You can guess that greater spending began and the series gradually came to an end.

There was a revival of the low-cost saloon racing concept in 2003 named Highway Saloons, but by then times had changed and that race series ended in 2005.

After about 40 years, Tim's Mini Cooper has not gone. Now competing in the CTCRC Pre-1966 championship, his latest event was at Brands Hatch a week ago. As almost the only competitor in that series still driving to and from the circuit, what was once a consistently competitive mid-field runner, now requires wet races to avoid being a tail-ender, because the engine has not been further developed. Spend lots of money and all those old cars become faster. You might expect that when racing costs more, many cars would be gone, but at present the CTCRC grids seem to increasingly be well supported.


Dynion Araf Uchaf

4,422 posts

222 months

Sunday 30th April 2023
quotequote all
Dewi 2 said:

Tim Dodwell (a well known club racer, who still races his bought when new, 1966 grey/white Mini Cooper) started the Road Saloons racing series in 1983.

The concept was low cost racing, restricted by driving on the road to each event. Those circumstances required tuning limitations, because very highly tuned engines would not usually be very suitable for use on public roads.
The series became so successful, that the classes were split into two races for Budget Road Saloons and Super Road Saloons..

All went well for a number of years, but eventually the Super competitors wanted trailers to be allowed.
You can guess that greater spending began and the series gradually came to an end.

There was a revival of the low-cost saloon racing concept in 2003 named Highway Saloons, but by then times had changed and that race series ended in 2005.

After about 40 years, Tim's Mini Cooper has not gone. Now competing in the CTCRC Pre-1966 championship, his latest event was at Brands Hatch a week ago. As almost the only competitor in that series still driving to and from the circuit, what was once a consistently competitive mid-field runner, now requires wet races to avoid being a tail-ender, because the engine has not been further developed. Spend lots of money and all those old cars become faster. You might expect that when racing costs more, many cars would be gone, but at present the CTCRC grids seem to increasingly be well supported.
My earliest forays into club motorsport was with th BRSCC Lumenition road saloons in 2001. iIRC the reason trailers were allowed in 2001 is that the RAC refused to tow cars away from race tracks anymore and so some people wanted a back up option- understandable. Tbf the reason I chose road saloon was for the fact that you had to drive to and from, I figured it would provide better driving standards alongside the fact that I had no trailer. During the 2001 season I raced at the old Anglesey circuit and my diff exploded on the final lap of the last race. Getting home required a fair amount of effort including blagging a lift of a fellow competitor who had a bus, whilst towing my broken car, paying him to do so and the. Paying him to fix the gearbox. Somewhat stressful, and meant that I joined the trailer runners at the next race.

LukeBrown66

4,479 posts

45 months

Sunday 30th April 2023
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Tim Dodwell won one of the first races I ever travelled to on my own as a new driver, in a blue Scirocco! At either Ca dwell Park or Donington!

Dewi 2

1,304 posts

64 months

Sunday 30th April 2023
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LukeBrown66 said:
Tim Dodwell won one of the first races I ever travelled to on my own as a new driver, in a blue Scirocco! At either Cadwell Park or Donington!

The Scirocco is still owned by Tim. Fitting a bigger non original turbocharged VAG engine (think 2 litres) made class eligibility awkward, so that car is only seen at hillclimbs now.


Chunkychucky

Original Poster:

5,942 posts

168 months

Tuesday 2nd May 2023
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Dewi 2 said:

Tim Dodwell (a well known club racer, who still races his bought when new, 1966 grey/white Mini Cooper) started the Road Saloons racing series in 1983.

The concept was low cost racing, restricted by driving on the road to each event. Those circumstances required tuning limitations, because very highly tuned engines would not usually be very suitable for use on public roads.
The series became so successful, that the classes were split into two races for Budget Road Saloons and Super Road Saloons..

All went well for a number of years, but eventually the Super competitors wanted trailers to be allowed.
You can guess that greater spending began and the series gradually came to an end.

There was a revival of the low-cost saloon racing concept in 2003 named Highway Saloons, but by then times had changed and that race series ended in 2005.

After about 40 years, Tim's Mini Cooper has not gone. Now competing in the CTCRC Pre-1966 championship, his latest event was at Brands Hatch a week ago. As almost the only competitor in that series still driving to and from the circuit, what was once a consistently competitive mid-field runner, now requires wet races to avoid being a tail-ender, because the engine has not been further developed. Spend lots of money and all those old cars become faster. You might expect that when racing costs more, many cars would be gone, but at present the CTCRC grids seem to increasingly be well supported.
Yeah CTCRC do seem one of the better ones, the Historic Racing Saloons Register (run/organise the pre-66 touring cars that run with HSCC) also announced this year a group of separate classes for metal-panelled cars that can now run with them. Before this I was strongly considering the Pre-66 CTCRC series.

I'm tempted to go this route, as the HSCC package allows you to drive a nice variety of circuits and actually forms a series, where as people like HRDC tick neither of these boxes IMO.

QuadCamCapri

259 posts

150 months

Tuesday 2nd May 2023
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Mines still going, started in the Road Saloons in 1987, even drove it to and from the Zandvoort round in 1989 smile.
Was last out in it at the weekend taking a 1st and a 2nd on the Brands GP Circuit. Currently doing 'Modified Fords' & CTCRC Classic Thunder, still see Tim Dodwell in the paddock to chat to.

1987...


2023...

Dewi 2

1,304 posts

64 months

Wednesday 3rd May 2023
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Chunkychucky said:
Yeah CTCRC do seem one of the better ones, the Historic Racing Saloons Register (run/organise the pre-66 touring cars that run with HSCC) also announced this year a group of separate classes for metal-panelled cars that can now run with them. Before this I was strongly considering the Pre-66 CTCRC series.

I'm tempted to go this route, as the HSCC package allows you to drive a nice variety of circuits and actually forms a series, where as people like HRDC tick neither of these boxes IMO.

I might be wrong, but I tend to think of HSCC and HSCC as being the type of historic saloons that race in the Goodwood Revival.
In other words, expensive and extremely fast.

On occasions, visiting Mini Cooper S cars have come from other race series, to race in a CTCRC event and have easily achieved overall wins.



Chunkychucky

Original Poster:

5,942 posts

168 months

Friday 5th May 2023
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Dewi 2 said:

Chunkychucky said:
Yeah CTCRC do seem one of the better ones, the Historic Racing Saloons Register (run/organise the pre-66 touring cars that run with HSCC) also announced this year a group of separate classes for metal-panelled cars that can now run with them. Before this I was strongly considering the Pre-66 CTCRC series.

I'm tempted to go this route, as the HSCC package allows you to drive a nice variety of circuits and actually forms a series, where as people like HRDC tick neither of these boxes IMO.

I might be wrong, but I tend to think of HSCC and HSCC as being the type of historic saloons that race in the Goodwood Revival.
In other words, expensive and extremely fast.

On occasions, visiting Mini Cooper S cars have come from other race series, to race in a CTCRC event and have easily achieved overall wins.


Interesting, I believe because HSCC (aka HRSR) traditionally cater for cars with fibreglass panels/non-Appendix K modifications then they wouldn't be the typical preserve of the St Marys Trophy crowd.

As the competing cars in that race are selected by Julius Thurgood (or used to be, at least) then you have to 'pay a tribute' in the form of doing particular track/test days at Goodwood and competing in the HRDC races he organises. It's a pain as it's a meeting i'd like to compete at, but just can't be fked jumping through the hoops of high entry fees and odd circuit choices (Lydden Hill for example hurl).

It appears i'd not be alone in this, as merely a couple of years ago HRDC were able to field an entire grid full of pre-60s touring cars and put on a decent spectacle of a race. Now their races seem to be amalgamations of all sorts of series and types of car, another reason why I wouldn't want to compete with them. Just my thoughts smile

ChevronB19

5,737 posts

162 months

Friday 5th May 2023
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Chunkychucky said:
Yeah CTCRC do seem one of the better ones, the Historic Racing Saloons Register (run/organise the pre-66 touring cars that run with HSCC) also announced this year a group of separate classes for metal-panelled cars that can now run with them. Before this I was strongly considering the Pre-66 CTCRC series.

I'm tempted to go this route, as the HSCC package allows you to drive a nice variety of circuits and actually forms a series, where as people like HRDC tick neither of these boxes IMO.
HSCC HRSR (acronym hell!) has the fantastic advantage of being surrounded by other races with cars from all eras as well. So it’s great to spectate *and* race. Expensive tyres, yes, but they are *far* more fun to drive on M sections than on modern compounds. Unfortunately grids are low at the moment, but the metal panel class will hopefully help. Entry and membership fees are way cheaper than HRDC too.