Arrive and Drive / Team managed?
Discussion
Hi all,
ok i'm back!
some interesting suggestions raised from my last thread were based around arrive and drive. I've also seen on older threads people suggesting having a car run by a team.
I'm after some advice there.
Ok, so i'm looking at (have emailed) MSVT to get training and work toward my race license. I don't have a car to run, so will be looking at arrive and drive packages for that really. See what I need to do to at the very least get my license.
After that, I think in all reality I'm just not going to have the time to maintain my own car, let alone the time to learn HOW to maintain my own car. Plus, it's not the aspect of this that's really pulling me in. That's the racing!
I've seen a BMW series arrive and drive which is about £8,000 for the year. Which is doable. But I wondered what the situation is regarding having a team run my car? I like the idea of a team and both arrive and drive and team managed sound great!
I still like the idea of it being my car, but I'm not really keen on the idea of ensuring it keeps working!
so, where do I begin to look?
ok i'm back!
some interesting suggestions raised from my last thread were based around arrive and drive. I've also seen on older threads people suggesting having a car run by a team.
I'm after some advice there.
Ok, so i'm looking at (have emailed) MSVT to get training and work toward my race license. I don't have a car to run, so will be looking at arrive and drive packages for that really. See what I need to do to at the very least get my license.
After that, I think in all reality I'm just not going to have the time to maintain my own car, let alone the time to learn HOW to maintain my own car. Plus, it's not the aspect of this that's really pulling me in. That's the racing!
I've seen a BMW series arrive and drive which is about £8,000 for the year. Which is doable. But I wondered what the situation is regarding having a team run my car? I like the idea of a team and both arrive and drive and team managed sound great!
I still like the idea of it being my car, but I'm not really keen on the idea of ensuring it keeps working!
so, where do I begin to look?
IMO you're missing out on a lot of the fun by just turning up and driving but each to their own.
Pretty much every series from the bottom up has cars available for arrive and drive which, by definition, are run by a team as you're not going to be able to run the car yourself. The more you pay the more professional the team in general.
Just look at the websites and/or Facebook pages of the series for the details of who to contact and which teams run packages.
Pretty much every series from the bottom up has cars available for arrive and drive which, by definition, are run by a team as you're not going to be able to run the car yourself. The more you pay the more professional the team in general.
Just look at the websites and/or Facebook pages of the series for the details of who to contact and which teams run packages.
JoelH said:
IMO you're missing out on a lot of the fun by just turning up and driving but each to their own.
Pretty much every series from the bottom up has cars available for arrive and drive which, by definition, are run by a team as you're not going to be able to run the car yourself. The more you pay the more professional the team in general.
Just look at the websites and/or Facebook pages of the series for the details of who to contact and which teams run packages.
I do agree with you, just a case of getting going really. Neither of my current vehicles are viable track cars, So I'd have to get something, then either convert it/make safe or buy something ready to go. Then Transport it, then store it etc. It mounts up to a point I'm financially better off paying someone else to do that for me. But I do agree, it takes something away from the experience. Pretty much every series from the bottom up has cars available for arrive and drive which, by definition, are run by a team as you're not going to be able to run the car yourself. The more you pay the more professional the team in general.
Just look at the websites and/or Facebook pages of the series for the details of who to contact and which teams run packages.
I'll have a look about see what I can find.
Hudson1984 said:
Ok, so i'm looking at (have emailed) MSVT to get training and work toward my race license. I don't have a car to run, so will be looking at arrive and drive packages for that really. See what I need to do to at the very least get my license.
Why? 
MSVT are nothing to do with race licences despite how much their sales team will try to tell you otherwise, you need to contact the Motorsports Association (MSA UK), link below:https://www.motorsportuk.org/get-started/starter-p...
Once you have bought your Starter Pack/filled out all the required forms and medical assessments, then you contact one of the circuits to book a day's ARDS test. I used Castle Combe as it was close, and from memory £150 cheaper than anywhere else - but this was 12 years ago, so things may have changed...
Best of luck with getting everything else sorted!
Chunkychucky said:
Why? MSVT are nothing to do with race licences despite how much their sales team will try to tell you otherwise, you need to contact the Motorsports Association (MSA UK), link below:
https://www.motorsportuk.org/get-started/starter-p...
Once you have bought your Starter Pack/filled out all the required forms and medical assessments, then you contact one of the circuits to book a day's ARDS test. I used Castle Combe as it was close, and from memory £150 cheaper than anywhere else - but this was 12 years ago, so things may have changed...
Best of luck with getting everything else sorted!
that's interesting. MSVT are nothing to do with race licences despite how much their sales team will try to tell you otherwise, you need to contact the Motorsports Association (MSA UK), link below:https://www.motorsportuk.org/get-started/starter-p...
Once you have bought your Starter Pack/filled out all the required forms and medical assessments, then you contact one of the circuits to book a day's ARDS test. I used Castle Combe as it was close, and from memory £150 cheaper than anywhere else - but this was 12 years ago, so things may have changed...
Best of luck with getting everything else sorted!
https://car.msvtrackdays.com/Calendar/Car/Snettert...
I was looking at the track academy and ARDS stuff, so perhaps they didn't do it when you last went... or i'm being fooled by sales people.... that's also viable lol
remember that if you do a arrive n drive, you will also be billed for any accident damage that happened whilst you were at the wheel, Including that which was not your fault. If you buzz an engine, you'll be paying for that rebuild as well. So whilst the headline figure might be attractive, you may have to budget for a not insignificant figure for repairs.
If you own the car, and get someone to run it, the advantage is that should you damage the car, you don't have to immediately fix it, although you may want to. That helps with cash flow. However the person assigned to run your car will only put up with it sitting in his workshop not earning him money for so long before he asks you to take it away.
Quite often in championships there is a 3rd way, whereby an experienced racer will look after your car on race day alongside his own (for a fee). He may have the capability to do the logistics for it as well, or the deal is you bring it, and he'll maintain it on the day. Lots of racers are mechanics by trade or own workshops and so can prep cars very quickly and certainly between qualifying etc. However they aren't going to fix the hole in the block from the last race if you've done nothing about it.
Try and find out if there is anyone in your local town that goes racing, there may even be a few, who are likely to know each other, and see if you can join their gang.
If you own the car, and get someone to run it, the advantage is that should you damage the car, you don't have to immediately fix it, although you may want to. That helps with cash flow. However the person assigned to run your car will only put up with it sitting in his workshop not earning him money for so long before he asks you to take it away.
Quite often in championships there is a 3rd way, whereby an experienced racer will look after your car on race day alongside his own (for a fee). He may have the capability to do the logistics for it as well, or the deal is you bring it, and he'll maintain it on the day. Lots of racers are mechanics by trade or own workshops and so can prep cars very quickly and certainly between qualifying etc. However they aren't going to fix the hole in the block from the last race if you've done nothing about it.
Try and find out if there is anyone in your local town that goes racing, there may even be a few, who are likely to know each other, and see if you can join their gang.
Edited by Dynion Araf Uchaf on Wednesday 5th October 14:10
In most series there will be some teams running cars. So deciding what series you want to race in is first step then speak to people in that series that are team run. Generally you’ll find the arrive and drive teams will also offer team support on your own car too.
For example I’ve raced in type R trophy and Roadsports with full team support from Motion Motorsport who are absolutely incredible. The car has never missed a beat and not only that they ensure the set up is correct for specific tracks, weather conditions etc etc.
Whilst spannering your own can be fun unless you are properly good at it having team support can get you to sharp end of the grid much more easily. You’d also be surprised how much care race cars need to stay at their best.
My team also store and transport the car for me which is helpful.
As others have said getting first race license is relatively simple so no need for MSV costs as well.
For example I’ve raced in type R trophy and Roadsports with full team support from Motion Motorsport who are absolutely incredible. The car has never missed a beat and not only that they ensure the set up is correct for specific tracks, weather conditions etc etc.
Whilst spannering your own can be fun unless you are properly good at it having team support can get you to sharp end of the grid much more easily. You’d also be surprised how much care race cars need to stay at their best.
My team also store and transport the car for me which is helpful.
As others have said getting first race license is relatively simple so no need for MSV costs as well.
whp1983 said:
In most series there will be some teams running cars. So deciding what series you want to race in is first step then speak to people in that series that are team run. Generally you’ll find the arrive and drive teams will also offer team support on your own car too.
For example I’ve raced in type R trophy and Roadsports with full team support from Motion Motorsport who are absolutely incredible. The car has never missed a beat and not only that they ensure the set up is correct for specific tracks, weather conditions etc etc.
Whilst spannering your own can be fun unless you are properly good at it having team support can get you to sharp end of the grid much more easily. You’d also be surprised how much care race cars need to stay at their best.
My team also store and transport the car for me which is helpful.
As others have said getting first race license is relatively simple so no need for MSV costs as well.
What’s the cost of this? Also what’s the situation with damage. Do you have to insure or leave a deposit before racing. Is it fixed at mates rates or full retail?For example I’ve raced in type R trophy and Roadsports with full team support from Motion Motorsport who are absolutely incredible. The car has never missed a beat and not only that they ensure the set up is correct for specific tracks, weather conditions etc etc.
Whilst spannering your own can be fun unless you are properly good at it having team support can get you to sharp end of the grid much more easily. You’d also be surprised how much care race cars need to stay at their best.
My team also store and transport the car for me which is helpful.
As others have said getting first race license is relatively simple so no need for MSV costs as well.
"If you own the car, and get someone to run it, the advantage is that should you damage the car, you don't have to immediately fix it, although you may want to. That helps with cash flow. However the person assigned to run your car will only put up with it sitting in his workshop not earning him money for so long before he asks you to take it away."
This is the preferred method by most of the teams I Know that run cars. You bring your car to them and they prep it pre race, take it to the track, run you at the meeting and go through the car after each race and prep it ready for the next.
Then if you blow an engine or stuff the car they are not after you for money, it also means tyre budget etc are up to you, although some teams will not look favourably on you if you slow, running old tyres and no testing. Most dont mind if your not fast as long as your trying, and improving.
As said also has the advantage that if you do blow something or stuff it you can decide when and how its repaired and your not beholden to them.
So my advice would be start looking at cars and teams, talk to the teams and help them find you the right car and so a deal where they run it.
Unless you really like getting your hands dirty and working on the car having someone run you allows you to concentrate on just the nut behind the wheel.
This is the preferred method by most of the teams I Know that run cars. You bring your car to them and they prep it pre race, take it to the track, run you at the meeting and go through the car after each race and prep it ready for the next.
Then if you blow an engine or stuff the car they are not after you for money, it also means tyre budget etc are up to you, although some teams will not look favourably on you if you slow, running old tyres and no testing. Most dont mind if your not fast as long as your trying, and improving.
As said also has the advantage that if you do blow something or stuff it you can decide when and how its repaired and your not beholden to them.
So my advice would be start looking at cars and teams, talk to the teams and help them find you the right car and so a deal where they run it.
Unless you really like getting your hands dirty and working on the car having someone run you allows you to concentrate on just the nut behind the wheel.
whp1983 said:
In most series there will be some teams running cars. So deciding what series you want to race in is first step then speak to people in that series that are team run. Generally you’ll find the arrive and drive teams will also offer team support on your own car too.
For example I’ve raced in type R trophy and Roadsports with full team support from Motion Motorsport who are absolutely incredible. The car has never missed a beat and not only that they ensure the set up is correct for specific tracks, weather conditions etc etc.
Whilst spannering your own can be fun unless you are properly good at it having team support can get you to sharp end of the grid much more easily. You’d also be surprised how much care race cars need to stay at their best.
My team also store and transport the car for me which is helpful.
As others have said getting first race license is relatively simple so no need for MSV costs as well.
I do something similar however I have what’s called “Emergency support”. In short the team stores my car, transports it (I don’t have a garage or space for a trailer where I live) and at the race weekend have mechanics available in case of emergency: so far I’ve only needed it at two events, one for a badly wired in transponder ( car electrics obviously not my forte) and where I had a broken A-frame (Caterham) which then shook loose a wheel arch. I pay for any parts but it’s fixed there and then for no additional cost. The caveats are I need to keep my car in good condition and so I have a mix of a pre-race check/ service by the team and myself and my brother spannering at the circuit. The other benefits are ready advice, their hospitality and knowing you’re not doing anything incorrectly. For example I’ve raced in type R trophy and Roadsports with full team support from Motion Motorsport who are absolutely incredible. The car has never missed a beat and not only that they ensure the set up is correct for specific tracks, weather conditions etc etc.
Whilst spannering your own can be fun unless you are properly good at it having team support can get you to sharp end of the grid much more easily. You’d also be surprised how much care race cars need to stay at their best.
My team also store and transport the car for me which is helpful.
As others have said getting first race license is relatively simple so no need for MSV costs as well.
It also helps with making sure you’re in the right place at the right time.
Ultimately whilst it’s not cheap it’s actually not that much more than owning / renting a trailer, I’d have to pay for storage and the biggest thing is time: a race ‘weekend’ starts on Thursday evening/ before dawn on Friday and ends late on a Sunday. That’s without sorting, loading and collecting the car from wherever it’s living.
I did that for my first event at Silverstone with a friend’s kindly loaned trailer and van and (I’m sure for some it’s no big deal) it does add on quite a lot of time.
I suspect if it’s in your garage at home it’s a little different though.
I asked a couple of people about this at MSD Live, just to get an idea of costs. With one team, for MX-5s, it was around £1500 to hire their car for a weekend or £1000 if they look after yours (including storage, transport, servicing, etc.). You have to pay for your own consumables on top of that.
Grant.C said:
I asked a couple of people about this at MSD Live, just to get an idea of costs. With one team, for MX-5s, it was around £1500 to hire their car for a weekend or £1000 if they look after yours (including storage, transport, servicing, etc.). You have to pay for your own consumables on top of that.
i just find that level of cost to simply hire a car with a pro team still an insane amount of money for what you get. I totally understand if you dont have a garage to store the car and space for a trailer, in that instance you don't have any choice but to hire...so i get it. And if that's you (not you personally but in general!) and you think it's worth it then who am i to argue.
For me personally, i could not see the value in hiring. Luckily i have a single garage with just about enough space for a 4.1m long car, and enough driveway space for a trailer. Buying the car and trailer (mixture of savings and personal loan) made far more sense to me, as generally the car will hold its value and can be sold relatively quickly either to other drivers or teams, if i ever find myself in a pickle financially.
i dont get how they are charging that much simply to hire an MX5; if i look at the 750MC results at Donington earlier this year, they got a qualifying (11 laps) then 3x 11 lap races = around 60 minutes of track time.
That'll be at the most lets say £80 of fuel.
Wear and tear on brakes/tyres/consumables would be absolutely minimal.Lets be generous and say this is another £300.
Call it £500 all in to run the car over the race weekend, if you're swapping for new tyres and pads in the middle of the day (unlikely).
You're then paying a minimum £500 premium for a mechanics time across 60 minutes...........that is absurd. £200, i could live with. £500..........No.
An MX5 will be an absolute doddle to maintain/run, it's not a complex car and any hobbyist with the most rudimentary DIY skills would be able to prep it at home, change pads and discs, basic fixes to wiring etc.... luckily with youtube and forums/internet you can find out pretty much anything.
What these teams are bringing to the table is experience, and knowledge of how to fix niggling issues quickly, specific to the car, that's about it. All stuff which you can learn on your own through practice on track days (which you would almost certainly be doing rather than turning up to a race meeting cold).
I think a lot of these teams charge what they know people are willling to pay and good luck to them, that's the market....i just cannot see where the value is personally.
I guess it depends how much you value your own personal time....if you're pretty loaded and paying a team £1.5k/weekend for 8 weekends to jump in and drive with zero hassle, then fine.
(i was there at MSD live on the Saturday running my black radical completely on my own so i know the work and suffering required......totally worth it when you get on track though, and saving myself £2k in the process, which is an eye watering amount!)
Edited by wioifoiee on Friday 11th November 12:40
wioifoiee said:
i just find that level of cost to simply hire a car with a pro team still an insane amount of money for what you get.
I totally understand if you dont have a garage to store the car and space for a trailer, in that instance you don't have any choice but to hire...so i get it. And if that's you (not you personally but in general!) and you think it's worth it then who am i to argue.
For me personally, i could not see the value in hiring. Luckily i have a single garage with just about enough space for a 4.1m long car, and enough driveway space for a trailer. Buying the car and trailer (mixture of savings and personal loan) made far more sense to me, as generally the car will hold its value and can be sold relatively quickly either to other drivers or teams, if i ever find myself in a pickle financially.
i dont get how they are charging that much simply to hire an MX5; if i look at the 750MC results at Donington earlier this year, they got a qualifying (11 laps) then 3x 11 lap races = around 60 minutes of track time.
That'll be at the most lets say £80 of fuel.
Wear and tear on brakes/tyres/consumables would be absolutely minimal.Lets be generous and say this is another £300.
Call it £500 all in to run the car over the race weekend, if you're swapping for new tyres and pads in the middle of the day (unlikely).
You're then paying a minimum £500 premium for a mechanics time across 60 minutes...........that is absurd. £200, i could live with. £500..........No.
An MX5 will be an absolute doddle to maintain/run, it's not a complex car and any hobbyist with the most rudimentary DIY skills would be able to prep it at home, change pads and discs, basic fixes to wiring etc.... luckily with youtube and forums/internet you can find out pretty much anything.
What these teams are bringing to the table is experience, and knowledge of how to fix niggling issues quickly, specific to the car, that's about it. All stuff which you can learn on your own through practice on track days (which you would almost certainly be doing rather than turning up to a race meeting cold).
I think a lot of these teams charge what they know people are willling to pay and good luck to them, that's the market....i just cannot see where the value is personally.
I guess it depends how much you value your own personal time....if you're pretty loaded and paying a team £1.5k/weekend for 8 weekends to jump in and drive with zero hassle, then fine.
(i was there at MSD live on the Saturday running my black radical completely on my own so i know the work and suffering required......totally worth it when you get on track though, and saving myself £2k in the process, which is an eye watering amount!)
I largely agree with this. The cost of hiring is eye watering. Especially when, if you are running a car your self, you know what the costs are. BTW fairly certain those fees don't include the entry.I totally understand if you dont have a garage to store the car and space for a trailer, in that instance you don't have any choice but to hire...so i get it. And if that's you (not you personally but in general!) and you think it's worth it then who am i to argue.
For me personally, i could not see the value in hiring. Luckily i have a single garage with just about enough space for a 4.1m long car, and enough driveway space for a trailer. Buying the car and trailer (mixture of savings and personal loan) made far more sense to me, as generally the car will hold its value and can be sold relatively quickly either to other drivers or teams, if i ever find myself in a pickle financially.
i dont get how they are charging that much simply to hire an MX5; if i look at the 750MC results at Donington earlier this year, they got a qualifying (11 laps) then 3x 11 lap races = around 60 minutes of track time.
That'll be at the most lets say £80 of fuel.
Wear and tear on brakes/tyres/consumables would be absolutely minimal.Lets be generous and say this is another £300.
Call it £500 all in to run the car over the race weekend, if you're swapping for new tyres and pads in the middle of the day (unlikely).
You're then paying a minimum £500 premium for a mechanics time across 60 minutes...........that is absurd. £200, i could live with. £500..........No.
An MX5 will be an absolute doddle to maintain/run, it's not a complex car and any hobbyist with the most rudimentary DIY skills would be able to prep it at home, change pads and discs, basic fixes to wiring etc.... luckily with youtube and forums/internet you can find out pretty much anything.
What these teams are bringing to the table is experience, and knowledge of how to fix niggling issues quickly, specific to the car, that's about it. All stuff which you can learn on your own through practice on track days (which you would almost certainly be doing rather than turning up to a race meeting cold).
I think a lot of these teams charge what they know people are willling to pay and good luck to them, that's the market....i just cannot see where the value is personally.
I guess it depends how much you value your own personal time....if you're pretty loaded and paying a team £1.5k/weekend for 8 weekends to jump in and drive with zero hassle, then fine.
(i was there at MSD live on the Saturday running my black radical completely on my own so i know the work and suffering required......totally worth it when you get on track though, and saving myself £2k in the process, which is an eye watering amount!)
Edited by wioifoiee on Friday 11th November 12:40
SO it's closer to 2k.
Now if you know you could never afford faster car than the one you got, then maybe hiring one to scratch and itch or prove a point might be worthwhile, and indeed I am thinking of doing something like this for my special birthday in 2024. A team might argue that there's the build cost to pay for, mechanics time, and transport but taking your MX5 example id suggest a figure of £1200 all in is a fairer reflection.
£300 car hire
£300 mechanic hire
£300 pre race prep and travel costs
£300 entry fee.
And then you might have to insure it , or leave a not inconsiderable damage deposit.
Whereas I can do a race for £500-600 depending how far I have to travel. And budget maybe £500-1000 pa for spares which includes 2x tyres.
I don't hire a car however I can understand why they would charge a premium, if it gets bent they've got to fix or find another and prepare it. That's time, money and hassle however it is a door into the series where the driver may then wish to run their own car and have the team do some or all of the support so it makes sense as an offering and as a business an income.
That said, a couple of guys in the series I'm in (CGRC) only do a couple of weekends, neither have cars, one doesn't live in the UK so it suits them very well to pay for a fully prepared competitive car and all the confidence having mechanics who know what they are doing with the tools to do it brings. I don't know what the cost for this is however I doubt it's cheap.
That said, a couple of guys in the series I'm in (CGRC) only do a couple of weekends, neither have cars, one doesn't live in the UK so it suits them very well to pay for a fully prepared competitive car and all the confidence having mechanics who know what they are doing with the tools to do it brings. I don't know what the cost for this is however I doubt it's cheap.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
£300 pre race prep and travel costs
£300 entry fee.
I have my own car and I would be thrilled with those costs.£300 entry fee.
This isn't trying to pick holes, but genuinely which race series has a £300 entry?
It's been generally around £350 for a friday test day and then £550 for a two day race (practice / quali / two (occasionally three) races) weekend.
Crook said:
I have my own car and I would be thrilled with those costs.
This isn't trying to pick holes, but genuinely which race series has a £300 entry?
It's been generally around £350 for a friday test day and then £550 for a two day race (practice / quali / two (occasionally three) races) weekend.
approximate.This isn't trying to pick holes, but genuinely which race series has a £300 entry?
It's been generally around £350 for a friday test day and then £550 for a two day race (practice / quali / two (occasionally three) races) weekend.
Fairly certain the 750mc event at Anglesey was £290 although they are normally around the £360 mark. Also you must be doing endurance stuff. which is more expensive. I was thinking about sprint races 1x q 2x 15 min races
Edited by Dynion Araf Uchaf on Friday 11th November 15:41
I know its a bit different to an MX5, but when we were running F3 cars, part of the hire fee included an amount to go towards an future engine rebuild as you would expect to have a £ 10k engine refresh every 5000 miles - that works out at £ 2 per mile.
A race weekend of 4 x 30 min sessions and then possibly 4x 20 min race sessions could see you covering up to 400 miles in a weekend (these cars will fairly easily lap at an average speed of 100mph + per lap)
The engines consumed Sunoco FR control fuel at an average of 0.7 litres per minute, so for the same event of 200 minutes of track time, thats likely to be 140 litres. A 200 gallon drum of Sunoco FR is £ 856.00 + VAT.
We used to do about 15 hours of routine servicing and preparation between races
We would give the driver choices on tyres. Likely to be a new set for the races - £ 600 + VAT / set. If they'd raced with us previously, they may already have a part worn set for the test day.
A race weekend of 4 x 30 min sessions and then possibly 4x 20 min race sessions could see you covering up to 400 miles in a weekend (these cars will fairly easily lap at an average speed of 100mph + per lap)
The engines consumed Sunoco FR control fuel at an average of 0.7 litres per minute, so for the same event of 200 minutes of track time, thats likely to be 140 litres. A 200 gallon drum of Sunoco FR is £ 856.00 + VAT.
We used to do about 15 hours of routine servicing and preparation between races
We would give the driver choices on tyres. Likely to be a new set for the races - £ 600 + VAT / set. If they'd raced with us previously, they may already have a part worn set for the test day.
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