New MSUK track limits proposals

New MSUK track limits proposals

Author
Discussion

Dan BSCS

Original Poster:

1,173 posts

235 months

Friday 3rd February 2023
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Interesting new proposals for track limits regulations and penalties.

https://www.motorsportuk.org/wp-content/uploads/20...

Dynion Araf Uchaf

4,424 posts

222 months

Friday 3rd February 2023
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IRTA - you can't protest another competitor if you think they have gained an advantage by exceeding track limits.
All breaches of track limits now have a penalty applied - so the only concern is if one is missed by an official and you therefore lose out.
You can appeal a track limit penalty if it has been applied to you v the C OF C. I guess using your on board camera footage as evidence.

bumskins

1,334 posts

14 months

Friday 3rd February 2023
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I miss the good old days when the 'limit' of the circuit was delineated by the edge of the tarmac blending in to grass, and thereby exceeding the track limits didn't offer an advantage.

Dan BSCS

Original Poster:

1,173 posts

235 months

Friday 3rd February 2023
quotequote all
bumskins said:
I miss the good old days when the 'limit' of the circuit was delineated by the edge of the tarmac blending in to grass, and thereby exceeding the track limits didn't offer an advantage.
That was only true on the exit of corners. You could cut the apex across the grass and gain an advantage. Like the old hairpin at Donington.

LukeBrown66

4,479 posts

45 months

Friday 3rd February 2023
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I have never really understood the track limits rulings.

This seems to say to me that any part of the tyre going completely over the white line on a kerb or grass where an advantage is gained, (ie not because of a spin/mistake) is over track limits.

In lots of series you can put the outside wheels over the track extremity/white line and exceeding is deemed as if the outers are already over the inners can be within track limits if the inside tyre is still within the white line.

This seems to say outer.

geeks

9,121 posts

138 months

Friday 3rd February 2023
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I support the track limits stuff, I do think you should be allowed one free pass, everyone makes mistakes but it really is quite simple, the track is the bit between the white lines and the parts painted red and white, the rest is not the track, not hard is it?

drmotorsport

739 posts

242 months

Friday 3rd February 2023
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Quite a clampdown impending. All seems good except for the 1 second penatly on the first offense which seems a bit harsh for what is likely to be a mistake. Will certainly keep timekeepers and marshalls busy.

geeks

9,121 posts

138 months

Friday 3rd February 2023
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A simple diagram that can be kept outside the clerks office


Steve H

5,224 posts

194 months

Friday 3rd February 2023
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Totally agree with geeks and DR, there’s no reason why track limits need to be a problem but too many penalties could mean almost every race is no longer decided by the chequered flag.


DemonDriverDan

86 posts

149 months

Friday 3rd February 2023
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The stewards seemed to struggle keeping up with the old rules let alone the new ones. I'm sure we've all seen plenty of people going over track limits when racing that weren't penalised.

Given the strength of the new punishments it would probably cause me to be a little more cautious but what happens if the car in front doesn't and goes over the limits with no penalty?

Also if you make a small mistake, say going through Paddock, and run wide you should immediately be penalised even for the first time? Seems a bit strong.

NoBrakesWC

391 posts

48 months

Friday 3rd February 2023
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They do it in karting where sometimes your not allowed to use the kerb seems like it could be same in MSUK as well.

Drumroll

3,738 posts

119 months

Friday 3rd February 2023
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DemonDriverDan said:
The stewards seemed to struggle keeping up with the old rules let alone the new ones. I'm sure we've all seen plenty of people going over track limits when racing that weren't penalised.
True but the angle you look at the track from as a driver is different to the marshals

Given the strength of the new punishments it would probably cause me to be a little more cautious but what happens if the car in front doesn't and goes over the limits with no penalty?
No real change from last year

Also if you make a small mistake, say going through Paddock, and run wide you should immediately be penalised even for the first time? Seems a bit strong.
the argument would be is you have had practice to sort that out

whp1983

1,168 posts

138 months

Friday 3rd February 2023
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I assume this doesn’t apply to BTCC?

As for rest of us, I don’t see why making one mistake needs punishing…. It is amateur racing. I think as long as it is well
Policed and fair for all it’s fine. Let’s see how it goes.

JoelH

167 posts

29 months

Saturday 4th February 2023
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LukeBrown66 said:
I have never really understood the track limits rulings.

This seems to say to me that any part of the tyre going completely over the white line on a kerb or grass where an advantage is gained, (ie not because of a spin/mistake) is over track limits.

In lots of series you can put the outside wheels over the track extremity/white line and exceeding is deemed as if the outers are already over the inners can be within track limits if the inside tyre is still within the white line.

This seems to say outer.
You're mixing up FIA track limit rules with MSUK rules. MSUK rules have been different for a number of years now. In FIA events only two wheels need to be within track limits. MSUK events all four wheels have to be within.

The change they are proposing is that all four wheels must be completely within the track now whereas the current situation is that if any part of the outer tyres are within the limit then it's fine.

Apologies if you already knew that but what you wrote came across to me as though you didn't realise the two bodies had different rules.

JoelH

167 posts

29 months

Saturday 4th February 2023
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NoBrakesWC said:
They do it in karting where sometimes your not allowed to use the kerb seems like it could be same in MSUK as well.
It's fine to use the kerb under the proposals as it's part of the race track. What you can't do is have half your outside wheel on the grass and half on the kerb as you can currently. The entire tyre has to be on the kerb under the proposals.

LukeBrown66

4,479 posts

45 months

Saturday 4th February 2023
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Utterly ridiculous to have different rules for different places. Those should be set out from the very top and be law everywhere, not different countries having their own interpretation, that is silly and disadvantages our younger career type drivers surely?

This is crazy and typical of MSUK, why plough their own furrow? You are preparing drivers to race all over the world not just in the UK.

I get why they are doing it and in all honesty this is how it should be everywhere, but until it is, why be so bloody contrary?

I tell you why, because track owners don't like people going on the grass do they Jonathan!!!!

geeks

9,121 posts

138 months

Saturday 4th February 2023
quotequote all
LukeBrown66 said:
Utterly ridiculous to have different rules for different places. Those should be set out from the very top and be law everywhere, not different countries having their own interpretation, that is silly and disadvantages our younger career type drivers surely?

This is crazy and typical of MSUK, why plough their own furrow? You are preparing drivers to race all over the world not just in the UK.

I get why they are doing it and in all honesty this is how it should be everywhere, but until it is, why be so bloody contrary?

I tell you why, because track owners don't like people going on the grass do they Jonathan!!!!
You really are utterly clueless

LukeBrown66

4,479 posts

45 months

Sunday 5th February 2023
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Great addition to the thread, is that the best you can do?

Explain to me very clearly how having different track limits rules for Britain and for the rest of the world is a good thing?

Oneball

842 posts

86 months

Sunday 5th February 2023
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LukeBrown66 said:
Utterly ridiculous to have different rules for different places. Those should be set out from the very top and be law everywhere, not different countries having their own interpretation, that is silly and disadvantages our younger career type drivers surely?

This is crazy and typical of MSUK, why plough their own furrow? You are preparing drivers to race all over the world not just in the UK.

I get why they are doing it and in all honesty this is how it should be everywhere, but until it is, why be so bloody contrary?

I tell you why, because track owners don't like people going on the grass do they Jonathan!!!!
If anything it is actually preparing young drivers. Different circuits have different rules even within the small sphere that is F1 and even from season to season, it’ll be in the final instructions/supplementaries, nothing out of the ordinary here.

Yazza54

18,464 posts

180 months

Sunday 5th February 2023
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Track limits are an absolute pain at club level where the policing of it is totally inconsistent.

I got done for it at croft (of all places!!) last year, everyone was doing the same thing as me. Provided onboard and live stream footage to the clerk's, no one was interested. I was the only person who got a penalty for it resulting in a time penalty forcing me to drop a position that I held onto for 20 minutes. Even had loads of screen grabs of the guy behind me doing the same thing and the guy in front, every lap!!

The problem is that with it being so inconsistent, if everyone is doing it and you aren't, that's a few tenths a lap...

Donington national we had a few individuals just smashing their car straight through the chicane over the new sausage kerbs, again, nothing happened to them.

At this point I feel like they would be better scrapping the rule altogether and just letting us use whatever is there to be used. I.e. anything but gravel or grass. (Obviously I'm simplifying massively here)