Electric Ultima
Discussion
What about an electric Ultima?
Before you all call me a heretic that needs to hand in his PH card, I love a good V8 as much as the next man.
I am also not thinking of electric as replacement to petrol, but rather one more option in the range. (Still supprised that a hybrid system has not made an appearance yet).
We have all seen what Tesla has achieved starting from a Lotus platform. It seems to me that the Ultima platform could be perfectly suited for a new generation of electric supercar.
We all know what an Ultima looks like without an engine, gearbox, fuel tanks and all the other parts needed. What would it take to convert to electric?
The motors use by Tesla seem to be a good starting point, although four-wheel-drive has obvious benefits.
Battery wise I would imagine that it would be very useful to have something that could be swapped out quickly. A Touring battery for distance and a performance battery for track days would be obvious options.
I would imagine that the end result would be something very different. Quiet, more 'modern' and 'environmentally friendly'. An automatic or semiautomatic box would make more sense, as would advanced traction control.
It is not to say that one would not necessarily be better than the other, but rather it would be the beginnings of a car that was forward-looking.
Something smaller -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXqYbNEiW0Y
Something bigger -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_cRqcbXAs4
Before you all call me a heretic that needs to hand in his PH card, I love a good V8 as much as the next man.
I am also not thinking of electric as replacement to petrol, but rather one more option in the range. (Still supprised that a hybrid system has not made an appearance yet).
We have all seen what Tesla has achieved starting from a Lotus platform. It seems to me that the Ultima platform could be perfectly suited for a new generation of electric supercar.
We all know what an Ultima looks like without an engine, gearbox, fuel tanks and all the other parts needed. What would it take to convert to electric?
The motors use by Tesla seem to be a good starting point, although four-wheel-drive has obvious benefits.
Battery wise I would imagine that it would be very useful to have something that could be swapped out quickly. A Touring battery for distance and a performance battery for track days would be obvious options.
I would imagine that the end result would be something very different. Quiet, more 'modern' and 'environmentally friendly'. An automatic or semiautomatic box would make more sense, as would advanced traction control.
It is not to say that one would not necessarily be better than the other, but rather it would be the beginnings of a car that was forward-looking.
Something smaller -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXqYbNEiW0Y
Something bigger -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_cRqcbXAs4
Edited by Olivero on Saturday 16th July 19:38
Why do it with an Ultima?
You would need a totally new chassis to start with. It would need to be lighter and the battery pack would need to be structural too.
The Lotus (Colin Chapman) approach of 'added lightness' is what is needed.
The reason you have not seen an electric Ultima as there is still a lot to learn with the technology and it is still expensive.
Oh, and the other reason is Ultima owners want to make as much noise as possible and love the smell of hydrocarbons!!!!
Paul
You would need a totally new chassis to start with. It would need to be lighter and the battery pack would need to be structural too.
The Lotus (Colin Chapman) approach of 'added lightness' is what is needed.
The reason you have not seen an electric Ultima as there is still a lot to learn with the technology and it is still expensive.
Oh, and the other reason is Ultima owners want to make as much noise as possible and love the smell of hydrocarbons!!!!
Paul
Storer said:
Why do it with an Ultima?
Well, I think the dimentions are good. Aero is well tested as is handeling.
- It made for a good mule for McLaren, so good for pretty much anything thrown at it power wise.
You would need a totally new chassis to start with. It would need to be lighter and the battery pack would need to be structural too.
- Not sure if I would need to go much lighter. The full cage does a good job as is...
Would the battery pack need to be structrial? I am guessing (and it is just a guess) that even if the enginge/gearbox is structrial, the load would be very different with electric power, so shouldn't be a problem.
The Lotus (Colin Chapman) approach of 'added lightness' is what is needed.
- Light is always good, but at what (financial) cost?
The reason you have not seen an electric Ultima as there is still a lot to learn with the technology and it is still expensive.
- Got to start somewhere...
Oh, and the other reason is Ultima owners want to make as much noise as possible and love the smell of hydrocarbons!!!!
- I would love to have the choise. Also opens up sales in countries where there are restrictions on big petrol engines.
Paul
Well, I think the dimentions are good. Aero is well tested as is handeling.
- It made for a good mule for McLaren, so good for pretty much anything thrown at it power wise.
You would need a totally new chassis to start with. It would need to be lighter and the battery pack would need to be structural too.
- Not sure if I would need to go much lighter. The full cage does a good job as is...
Would the battery pack need to be structrial? I am guessing (and it is just a guess) that even if the enginge/gearbox is structrial, the load would be very different with electric power, so shouldn't be a problem.
The Lotus (Colin Chapman) approach of 'added lightness' is what is needed.
- Light is always good, but at what (financial) cost?
The reason you have not seen an electric Ultima as there is still a lot to learn with the technology and it is still expensive.
- Got to start somewhere...
Oh, and the other reason is Ultima owners want to make as much noise as possible and love the smell of hydrocarbons!!!!
- I would love to have the choise. Also opens up sales in countries where there are restrictions on big petrol engines.
Paul
Personally I hate these electric cars. They have as much visceral enjoyment as a Hoover.
An Ultima, or noble or Caterham or Ariel or Radical etc is as much about this type of enjoyment as the performance.
I couldn't give a monkeys find electric motor gives a million lb ft of torque, it's just boring.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
No offence, but electric in an ultima or any other high performance kit car, is just pointless
An Ultima, or noble or Caterham or Ariel or Radical etc is as much about this type of enjoyment as the performance.
I couldn't give a monkeys find electric motor gives a million lb ft of torque, it's just boring.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
No offence, but electric in an ultima or any other high performance kit car, is just pointless
Well the World(/Ultima) is your oyster, so in the end it is your decision.
Nevertheless, one question comes to mind - not "why in an Ultima?", but rather "why at all?"
In the end, NO battery electric car will ever realistically achieve anything wrt to protecting the environment or green house effect per se.
Today, internal combustion engines reach some 40% of efficiency. Doesn't sound much - but in comparison: in most power plants, you are already below that efficiency level before the energy even leaves the plant's premises - not taking into account the downstream losses of the grid, the storage, the electrical motor / battery to wheel, etc. Admittedly - if you belong to the sort of folks that have a wind energy converter in their backyard and/or a photovoltaic array on their roof, things might look different. But if you are using anything close to the average Joe's energy mix from the power outlet, then you would be actually sc***ing mother nature more with an electric Ultima than with the V8-equipped version with a proper catalyst and a particulate filter.
So in the end - more than anything else - battery electric cars are a tool for big corporations to increase turnover in a time of decreasing sales due to increasing energy efficiency. The current Volkswagen(, Fiat, Opel, Jeep, ... plus many other...) scandal proves one thing: the "green" perception that industry is selling and reality are two very, very different things.
If you now wonder what would actually be a true step forward in terms of "engines of the future" - bioethanol is much more useful in the long run. It was very interesting to see the massive fear-mongering campaign of the automotive (and oil) industry when lawmakers introduced E10 ("5% more ethanol than what you have been using so far will make your engine explode"); curiously, the exact same companies (Volkswagen, to name one) have been selling E85 (so "80% more ethanol") cars for decades elsewhere (e.g. in Argentina) - with little changes compared to the standard gasoline models... and no explosions.
The summary of a German government-funded study on biofuels a few years back admitted that with the right (so-called "C4") plants as source, fuel output per hectare is dramatically higher than what is reached today (with canola, corn, sugar cane, etc.) - but "looking at these C4 plants was not within the commissioned scope of the study". And yes - V8s run with bioethanol just fine, ask e.g. Jay Leno...
If bio-ethanol is not hi-tech enough - try something like direct methanol/ethanol fuel cells. But please stay away from bad/bat cars!
Nevertheless, one question comes to mind - not "why in an Ultima?", but rather "why at all?"
In the end, NO battery electric car will ever realistically achieve anything wrt to protecting the environment or green house effect per se.
Today, internal combustion engines reach some 40% of efficiency. Doesn't sound much - but in comparison: in most power plants, you are already below that efficiency level before the energy even leaves the plant's premises - not taking into account the downstream losses of the grid, the storage, the electrical motor / battery to wheel, etc. Admittedly - if you belong to the sort of folks that have a wind energy converter in their backyard and/or a photovoltaic array on their roof, things might look different. But if you are using anything close to the average Joe's energy mix from the power outlet, then you would be actually sc***ing mother nature more with an electric Ultima than with the V8-equipped version with a proper catalyst and a particulate filter.
So in the end - more than anything else - battery electric cars are a tool for big corporations to increase turnover in a time of decreasing sales due to increasing energy efficiency. The current Volkswagen(, Fiat, Opel, Jeep, ... plus many other...) scandal proves one thing: the "green" perception that industry is selling and reality are two very, very different things.
If you now wonder what would actually be a true step forward in terms of "engines of the future" - bioethanol is much more useful in the long run. It was very interesting to see the massive fear-mongering campaign of the automotive (and oil) industry when lawmakers introduced E10 ("5% more ethanol than what you have been using so far will make your engine explode"); curiously, the exact same companies (Volkswagen, to name one) have been selling E85 (so "80% more ethanol") cars for decades elsewhere (e.g. in Argentina) - with little changes compared to the standard gasoline models... and no explosions.
The summary of a German government-funded study on biofuels a few years back admitted that with the right (so-called "C4") plants as source, fuel output per hectare is dramatically higher than what is reached today (with canola, corn, sugar cane, etc.) - but "looking at these C4 plants was not within the commissioned scope of the study". And yes - V8s run with bioethanol just fine, ask e.g. Jay Leno...
If bio-ethanol is not hi-tech enough - try something like direct methanol/ethanol fuel cells. But please stay away from bad/bat cars!
Edited by UltimaPanthera on Sunday 17th July 08:49
Olivero said:
What about an electric Ultima?
Something smaller -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXqYbNEiW0Y
Something bigger -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_cRqcbXAs4
Check out the history of the company "AC Propulsion" and their experimental "TZero" which that time delivered the powertrain for the Tesla-Lotus (also for the Wright Speed X1).Something smaller -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXqYbNEiW0Y
Something bigger -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_cRqcbXAs4
http://www.acpropulsion.com/
Edited by AndreasW on Sunday 17th July 08:41
Olivero said:
Something bigger -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_cRqcbXAs4
Actually this one is quite interesting, as it is pretty much identical to an Ultima in most parameters including engine power, albeit at some 135kg more mass according to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_cRqcbXAs4
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/5072/Lola-Drays...
So in essence, one cannot even complete two rounds on the Nürburgring with it... without emptying the battery?!?
I was thinking some time back using a Hydrogen fuel cell and electric power. Unfortunately when I saw the estimated price, I nearly did a second heart attack. So guess it's back to V8 power for the moment.
However the concept could be the next major technical break through in the not so distant future...
http://www.greengt.com/en/index.php
http://www.greengt.com/attachments/news/green_gt-l...
However the concept could be the next major technical break through in the not so distant future...
http://www.greengt.com/en/index.php
http://www.greengt.com/attachments/news/green_gt-l...
I think the only method of giving an Ultima sufficient green energy would be nuclear power!
The issue may be weight from the reactor shielding though!!!
On my way back from The Hotel de France after the Le Mans Classic I had to fill up 4 times after a bit of a detour. Takes 10 mins. Doubt I could do the journey in a day on electricity.
Paul
The issue may be weight from the reactor shielding though!!!
On my way back from The Hotel de France after the Le Mans Classic I had to fill up 4 times after a bit of a detour. Takes 10 mins. Doubt I could do the journey in a day on electricity.
Paul
Dom
I go via the tunnel. Quick and easy. With flexiplus ticket it is about 45 mins from arriving at Folkestone to getting off in Calais. Also, I'm not the best sailor in rough weather!!!!
I did about 1500 miles total over the trip. I never work out fuel consumption. I just don't want to think about it.
Paul
I go via the tunnel. Quick and easy. With flexiplus ticket it is about 45 mins from arriving at Folkestone to getting off in Calais. Also, I'm not the best sailor in rough weather!!!!
I did about 1500 miles total over the trip. I never work out fuel consumption. I just don't want to think about it.
Paul
I have always had a soft spot for racing Porsches, so intrigued to see something electric - http://newatlas.com/kreisel-electric-porsche-910/4...
This site has a range of interesting electric vehicles -http://electrovelocity.com
This site has a range of interesting electric vehicles -http://electrovelocity.com
Storer said:
Why do it with an Ultima?
You would need a totally new chassis to start with. It would need to be lighter and the battery pack would need to be structural too.
The Lotus (Colin Chapman) approach of 'added lightness' is what is needed.
The reason you have not seen an electric Ultima as there is still a lot to learn with the technology and it is still expensive.
Oh, and the other reason is Ultima owners want to make as much noise as possible and love the smell of hydrocarbons!!!!
Paul
You would need a totally new chassis to start with. It would need to be lighter and the battery pack would need to be structural too.
The Lotus (Colin Chapman) approach of 'added lightness' is what is needed.
The reason you have not seen an electric Ultima as there is still a lot to learn with the technology and it is still expensive.
Oh, and the other reason is Ultima owners want to make as much noise as possible and love the smell of hydrocarbons!!!!
Paul
V8Dom said:
it will come one day soon
within 2-3 years we will have electric hyper cars
at the Geneva show i saw the 240 mph 1200hp full electric supercar that has a range of 350 miles per cahrge
petrol im afraid is the thing of the past soon, so an ultima will be the way forwards
Dom, I have to agree that petrol will be (soon?) a thing of the past. However if alternative power like electricity sounds excellent, the size and the weight of the batteries need to be downsized, otherwise our Ults will become a tank. Also, it may take some more years until the Factory address this issue IMHO.within 2-3 years we will have electric hyper cars
at the Geneva show i saw the 240 mph 1200hp full electric supercar that has a range of 350 miles per cahrge
petrol im afraid is the thing of the past soon, so an ultima will be the way forwards
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