Buying an Ultima
Discussion
Very soon I'll be looking seriously for a new car this year. My shortlist is a Viper, Exige or Ultima. I have a nice Westy that I'm thinking of selling if I get the latter two as I like doing track days.
So what to look out for? Aircon a must, 550hp+.
Budget is £45k tops, preferably under 40k.
I'm back in the UK Feb/Mar, sure to see a few more on the market by then hopefully.
So what to look out for? Aircon a must, 550hp+.
Budget is £45k tops, preferably under 40k.
I'm back in the UK Feb/Mar, sure to see a few more on the market by then hopefully.
An Ultima built for the road will show it's deficiencies quite quickly on track. One built for the track will be a lot better, but it still lacks the cornering and braking of a similarly fast race car.
If you want a track only car then buy a race car.
If you want a road car that can do tracks then an Ultima could fit the bill. But a race car will still embarrass you on track.
Paul
845ste said:
...I do not think any of us here would sell her gtr for only £ 45k ....;)
ha! completely irrelevant, but thanks! Plenty for sale at the moment in my budget, i should think there will be a few more on the market in the coming months also. The yellow Can-Am would have fitted the bill nicely but he's got a buyer lined up and i'm currently overseas.That aside, any tips of things to look out for when i do get back? i've read storers rebuild thread which gave a few pointers on the things he found.
My other shortlists are the Viper and Exige. The Ultima is no doubt more capable, but it is still a kit car at the end of the day. I've seen a few quotes about there being some rough examples out there, cost savings and shortcuts made on builds which may be more evident. The red one got pulled apart for no air-con so i guess that's a must, the "right brakes" were mentioned for other cars.
I can accept some low rent compromises at my budget level, i'm not expecting carbonfibre wings and canbus milspec looms, but a few tips would be welcome.
You might get into a reasonable Ult for 45k if you catch someone at the right time, the odds are long against it though. The other cars you mention are great I am sure but, on the road wouldn't draw a glance if parked near an Ult. For me they are a sense of drama on the road, if I just wanted speed on the street/track I'd never have got one. If you never seen one in the flesh go to the factory and take a look, just leave your debit card at home, as you will end up buying one!!
I actually live in Hinckley and took the nephew down there. Tried to strike up a conversation with a guy who was pushing one into the workshop but he just fobbed me off basically, I was in the Porsche so not sure if that was good or bad, though I think someone who works there might actually own one too, sure it had a funny number plate like turbo or something.
Sent an email few months back on specs and options and got no reply, I got more info from a build thread on here after someone posted his costs.
I'm sure they'll be more welcoming when I need parts mind, if I get one of course, but factory experience wasn't particularly great.
Sent an email few months back on specs and options and got no reply, I got more info from a build thread on here after someone posted his costs.
I'm sure they'll be more welcoming when I need parts mind, if I get one of course, but factory experience wasn't particularly great.
In all honesty you pays your money...you take your choice....just remember there is no bargains in these cars....just quality....low end you will spend a fortune getting it right....I bought a can-am and now have a gtr too.. personally the prices for good quality builds overseen with the factory are a premium.
Viper doesn't even come close on the wow factor..and sheer speed. But it does have central locking.
Viper doesn't even come close on the wow factor..and sheer speed. But it does have central locking.
e8_pack said:
Out of the 9 Ultima's current for sale on PH:
5 are <40k.
2 are 45k, one offering exchange for a Westfield
2 are 60k+ with no air con
Are the 5 <40k dogs? More on eBay too.
The 5 <40k are older cars and either Can-Am or iron block engines. The black one used to be red and has been for sale since God was a boy, I did try to go see it when I was looking but the guy was extremely difficult to get hold of.5 are <40k.
2 are 45k, one offering exchange for a Westfield
2 are 60k+ with no air con
Are the 5 <40k dogs? More on eBay too.
The >60k are dealers, one of the cars is supercharged, still an old iron block engine though and the other is an LS7 engine unregistered car.
Of the 3 cars you listed, exige, viper, and ultima, have you spent any seat time in them? They are pretty different beasts. The exige is small, loud, and a bit rough on long drives (but a lot of fun on the track). The viper is a gt car, more comfortable on the road, plagued with oiling issues in the heads (you must be a man's man to drive these quickly on the track). In my experience so far, the ultima w/ sway bars still rides softer on the road and is more capable than the other cars on the track (but to get the most out of it you really need to be an experienced driver.
I've driven the wheels off an exige 240s and 260s w/ upgraded exhaust, and they are really only fun when the road is twisty. I'll note here that if you're a bigger guy (I'm 6' 230#) you'll never look sexy getting in or out of an exige. The viper is fun too, but the oiling issues kind of over shadow it. For as great as the ultima is, it's low polar moment will take some getting used to, a Porsche Cayman makes good training wheels if you can get some seat time in one. The caveat on the ultima and exige is they won't be quiet inside and earmuff noise attenuation is a must.
I've driven the wheels off an exige 240s and 260s w/ upgraded exhaust, and they are really only fun when the road is twisty. I'll note here that if you're a bigger guy (I'm 6' 230#) you'll never look sexy getting in or out of an exige. The viper is fun too, but the oiling issues kind of over shadow it. For as great as the ultima is, it's low polar moment will take some getting used to, a Porsche Cayman makes good training wheels if you can get some seat time in one. The caveat on the ultima and exige is they won't be quiet inside and earmuff noise attenuation is a must.
At the bottom end of that budget, and if you haven't already had one, I would go for an Exige and keep the change to be honest. I have had 3 of them and the pick of the bunch was a 190bhp k-series S1 model. It was cramped, hot, compromised, loud and rattly. It spat flames, wiffed of unburnt petrol, looked super-cool and was a far more accomplished road and track car than I was a driver.
It's also probably the closest to a slightly scaled down Ultima that you can get, it isn't really too far from Lotus's kit-car roots and is likely to give you depreciation-free motoring until such time as you decide to move it on.
Like most folk on PH I play the "what would I buy" game and in terms of Ultima, I would probably want to start off with closer to £50k and work my way up or down from there. That's not to say there aren't nice ones for a lot less but you could spend a lot of time waiting for the right one and looking at a lot of poorer ones. Maybe a "Wanted" ad is the way to go?
It's also probably the closest to a slightly scaled down Ultima that you can get, it isn't really too far from Lotus's kit-car roots and is likely to give you depreciation-free motoring until such time as you decide to move it on.
Like most folk on PH I play the "what would I buy" game and in terms of Ultima, I would probably want to start off with closer to £50k and work my way up or down from there. That's not to say there aren't nice ones for a lot less but you could spend a lot of time waiting for the right one and looking at a lot of poorer ones. Maybe a "Wanted" ad is the way to go?
Edited by renmure on Tuesday 27th December 17:24
They are highly customized cars: you can also spend over 150k, but it depends on what parts installed.
I after 4 years I have completely rebuilt (disassembled "at iron" ...), improved and modified in almost everything, more reliable, more power, the best finish of the bodywork and interior, and in the end I spent another 60k .....
many many man-hours of garage
you must follow it very often if you use it often and continuously track-day
Here in Italy I know 3 gtr who had to spend much more later to make it "go right well".....
It depends on what you want:
Brembo / Ap brakes?
air con?
Original post carbon spoiler?
engine type?
how hp?
type gear?
wheels?
interior materials?
electrical system?
and a thousand other details / components
you can have a gtr from 50k up to 150k .....It does not exist a gtr equal to another
I'm happy for you if you spend 50k, but I am sure that you will spend many more to customize it to your preferences and use .
I after 4 years I have completely rebuilt (disassembled "at iron" ...), improved and modified in almost everything, more reliable, more power, the best finish of the bodywork and interior, and in the end I spent another 60k .....
many many man-hours of garage
you must follow it very often if you use it often and continuously track-day
Here in Italy I know 3 gtr who had to spend much more later to make it "go right well".....
It depends on what you want:
Brembo / Ap brakes?
air con?
Original post carbon spoiler?
engine type?
how hp?
type gear?
wheels?
interior materials?
electrical system?
and a thousand other details / components
you can have a gtr from 50k up to 150k .....It does not exist a gtr equal to another
I'm happy for you if you spend 50k, but I am sure that you will spend many more to customize it to your preferences and use .
Edited by 845ste on Tuesday 27th December 20:52
Edited by 845ste on Wednesday 28th December 06:54
50k gets you an awful lot of genuinely fast road cars with ac/sat nav etc and still use able on track.
New v6 exige with 350+bhp, Traction control etc.
2012 era GTR with a genuine 570bhp every day of the week.
Supercharged Exige (going up in value) and 20k cash for beer, holidays, tat. :-)
R8 low miles 4.2 or a higher miles 5.2 with 520bhp minimum.
New v6 exige with 350+bhp, Traction control etc.
2012 era GTR with a genuine 570bhp every day of the week.
Supercharged Exige (going up in value) and 20k cash for beer, holidays, tat. :-)
R8 low miles 4.2 or a higher miles 5.2 with 520bhp minimum.
200Plus Club said:
50k gets you an awful lot of genuinely fast road cars with ac/sat nav etc and still use able on track.
New v6 exige with 350+bhp, Traction control etc.
2012 era GTR with a genuine 570bhp every day of the week.
Supercharged Exige (going up in value) and 20k cash for beer, holidays, tat. :-)
R8 low miles 4.2 or a higher miles 5.2 with 520bhp minimum.
You are comparing eggs with chickens an Ultima is nothing like any of those cars and I've had a GTR S/C Exige and R8.New v6 exige with 350+bhp, Traction control etc.
2012 era GTR with a genuine 570bhp every day of the week.
Supercharged Exige (going up in value) and 20k cash for beer, holidays, tat. :-)
R8 low miles 4.2 or a higher miles 5.2 with 520bhp minimum.
If you are looking for refinement an Ultima is NOT the place for you, the point of an Ultima is it dispenses with traction control, power steering, Sat Nav etc. even the Exige was luxury compared to an Ultima, (though a lot of fun).
RWD cossie wil said:
What are the main deficiencys of an Ultima then? Why does the Can-am not get much love? Does the Evo sort out most of the issues?
Still longing for one, just considering if it's worth buying a secondhand one, or building a new one over 3/4 years?
Hey Will, you thinking of one too then? chopping in the turbo or just keep it?Still longing for one, just considering if it's worth buying a secondhand one, or building a new one over 3/4 years?
RWD cossie wil said:
just considering if it's worth buying a secondhand one, or building a new one over 3/4 years?
The advantage of building is that you will get exactly what you wanted from the get go. The disadvantage of building is that you will spend more since like any kit car, the builder pays for the depreciation then the value stays fairly static.RWD cossie wil said:
What are the main deficiencys of an Ultima then? Why does the Can-am not get much love? Does the Evo sort out most of the issues?
Still longing for one, just considering if it's worth buying a secondhand one, or building a new one over 3/4 years?
Your question is a little subjective but if comparing with mainstream then noise (road and mechanical) the cabin is tight, When I first got mine I thought I had made a mistake as it is a little claustrophobic, you need the right engine AND gearbox combination. there's nothing worse than building a stonking motor and then finding your ratios are wrong and the car tops out at 170 meaning motorway driving is a pain because you are revving too high at 70 mph on motorway runs, I have a G50/52 Turbo box that gives approx. 210 @ 7200 rpm, I am still thinking of changing out 6th for a higher geared option that would give 240+ theoretical but the point is a much more relaxed motorway overdrive gear.Still longing for one, just considering if it's worth buying a secondhand one, or building a new one over 3/4 years?
water ingression when you open the doors (design).
No driver aids or comforts, some people have built Ultimas and fitted all manner of equipment to try and bring it up to mainstream sports car spec, only to find what they really wanted was a Porsche GT3, this is a real example the red car just bought by someone on here was an attempt at just that and the owner admitted that he should have spent his money on a Porsche.
The EVO is much the same they will have the later stiffer chassis but on the whole the same rawness, which is what these cars are about IMO.
I would look at second hand cars first, I'm glad I did, at least you have the time to get the "feel" of the car, imagine building one after 3/4 years only to find you don't like it as much as you thought you would.
If you do like it you have two options, improve the one you bought or sell and build one yourself.
One thing is for sure you won't get your money back on a new build.
Remember once you have an Ultima you will have joined the dark side and the path back to "normal" cars is a difficult one, I have looked long and hard for a replacement experience and come up lacking. I have had my car for over 5 years now having changed my "weekend toy" on a near yearly basis up until the Ultima.
ETS the CanAm is a capable car, just there is no "proper" roof solution.
Oh and some on here say they are for hairdressers only
Edited by F.C. on Wednesday 28th December 09:41
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