Ultima Turbo install - tips - lessons learned

[chuntington101]

UltimaCH said:

ROWDYRENAULT said:

I don't know about the LS9 BUT THE LT4 is out because you can not mount the intake on backwards due to the position of the high pressure pump. turning the air intake away from the bodywork on a ultima could be done but you will have a gigantic impediment to airflow when your done and even turning it around in this manner will put your intake in close proximity to the headers. Lee

No need to flip the intake manifold on the LT4. Just some small mods needed like AutoBionics do perfectly.

And that's good job because you can't flip any of the OEM blowers on either the LS or LT engines! They are all front feed front drive units.

Would be nice to see the newer TVS 2650 on a LS engine in the old school confit (front drive rear feed).

[anonymous-user]

chuntington101 said:

Would be nice to see the newer TVS 2650 on a LS engine

I've yet to see anyone (e.g Magnuson) make a case for 2650 rotors that fit an LSx engine. Hope they do, copying the heartbeat intercooler design.

[Boosted LS1]

Evolution-ism said:

I will not be buying a pre-built engine (but thanks for the tips)

I am building the engine from the ground up, doing it with my son. He wanted to see how it is done.

A good start might be an LSA block and crank, with ls9 heads. You can fit a set of SBC steel rods and forged pistons.

[anonymous-user]

Boosted LS1 said:

A good start might be an LSA block and crank, with ls9 heads. You can fit a set of SBC steel rods and forged pistons.

I agree although only difference between LS9 and LSA heads is 12mm vs 11mm studs. I stuck with a LSA block with CNC LSA heads and forged rods/pistons. Good for 1000+ hp but what I really need is a pair of turbos.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 21st June 20:40

[chuntington101]

wormus said:

chuntington101 said:

Would be nice to see the newer TVS 2650 on a LS engine

I've yet to see anyone (e.g Magnuson) make a case for 2650 rotors that fit an LSx engine. Hope they do, copying the heartbeat intercooler design.

Nothing on the market yet but check out Harrops kit. Looks like it will bolt directly up to the manifold they are using. Could make for a killer combo on a corvette!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B-b6K_KplYc

[xrtim]

Evolution-ism said:

I will not be buying a pre-built engine (but thanks for the tips)

I am building the engine from the ground up, doing it with my son. He wanted to see how it is done.

Summit are doing a great deal on new 4.8/5.3 ls1 blocks, that's what I have gone for, you can pick and choose what steel parts to fit. Standard used engine (bottom end) plus aftermarket heads turbos etc made 1300hp on the dyno (truckin magazine big bang) what more do you need.

[chuntington101]

xrtim said:

Evolution-ism said:

I will not be buying a pre-built engine (but thanks for the tips)

I am building the engine from the ground up, doing it with my son. He wanted to see how it is done.

Summit are doing a great deal on new 4.8/5.3 ls1 blocks, that's what I have gone for, you can pick and choose what steel parts to fit. Standard used engine (bottom end) plus aftermarket heads turbos etc made 1300hp on the dyno (truckin magazine big bang) what more do you need.

It's crazy the power people are getting out of stock LS engines. However you have to ask how long they will last. Not so bad in the US where there are plenty of spare blocks sitting around but would be harder to get one over here. Also worth noting the engine was on a full race fuel which would have made making that much power a lot easier than on normal stuff from Tesco! Lol

[Boosted LS1]

An ls1 block has to be at least 15 years old and they can't be rebored. Have summit found stock of surplus stock from that far back. If so, I'll have a casing to put my spare MID liners in :-)

[xrtim]

Ordered mine expecting it to be the block with all equal head bolt lengths but when it got to the UK it was the older spec with different length head bolts ( glad I didn't order the stud kit until I checked it ) mine has the 4.8 stroke and everything I need to make a few more rpm time and time again. I will be running methanol injection to make up for the race fuel

[Boosted LS1]

^ Was it a brand new block? Early die cast blocks are said to be stronger then the sand cast items. You probably got the better block. :-)

[tjlees]

I looked at the turbo and it's a no from me, mainly because of the heat, power delivery, muffled V8 sound and packaging... but if you want to go that way Jeff Schwartz and banks power will give you some good ideas.

The Ultima factory/Gail LS7 whipple supercharger solution is a better way to go imho - if really want that type of power.

[xrtim]

Yes brand new block and finished honed with cam bearings , engine code would be LM7 or LR4 thick wall 3.780 bore, summit also bore this block to LS1 bore size 3.898 for more money . I was expecting to do something machining wise on the block because it the price but checked it out and it is ready to go,. Absolute bargain

[Boosted LS1]

^ That explains it. Those are truck blocks. They must have 'proper' liners in them to. Nice find.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Friday 23 June 08:46

[Storer]

I read lots of these threads where people want big power in their Ultima, at one point I did too.

When I was deciding on an engine 750hp was about as high as engines went in an Ultima. Since then things have got silly mainly to keep up with the hypercars from Porsche, Ferrari or McLaren et al.

I use my standard tune LS7 (better breathing and exhaust only) quite a bit or all types of road. When it really gets into it's stride, rev wise, you find it struggling for grip on dry, warm roads in third at licence removal speeds

It will concentrate your mind just keeping the car on the road (especially in the UK with our crap roads) even with 600 engine hp.
Maybe a bit more would help get to 200mph at Bruntingthorpe but for normal road driving there is no need for more. You can see off most cars on a decent road and more power will not help on a bumpy country road where a Subaru XYZ will leave you behind.

Hypercars are going down the all-wheel-drive route (with electric motors) so have rapid take-off. An Ultima has weight (the lack of it) on it's side. More power via turbos or superchargers adds weight and you can't deploy the extra power effectively, so what is the point?


Paul

[xrtim]

Storer said:

I read lots of these threads where people want big power in their Ultima, at one point I did too.

When I was deciding on an engine 750hp was about as high as engines went in an Ultima. Since then things have got silly mainly to keep up with the hypercars from Porsche, Ferrari or McLaren et al.

I use my standard tune LS7 (better breathing and exhaust only) quite a bit or all types of road. When it really gets into it's stride, rev wise, you find it struggling for grip on dry, warm roads in third at licence removal speeds

It will concentrate your mind just keeping the car on the road (especially in the UK with our crap roads) even with 600 engine hp.
Maybe a bit more would help get to 200mph at Bruntingthorpe but for normal road driving there is no need for more. You can see off most cars on a decent road and more power will not help on a bumpy country road where a Subaru XYZ will leave you behind.

Hypercars are going down the all-wheel-drive route (with electric motors) so have rapid take-off. An Ultima has weight (the lack of it) on it's side. More power via turbos or superchargers adds weight and you can't deploy the extra power effectively, so what is the point?


Paul

I have no experience of what an Ultima is like to drive never mind a turbo charged Ultima, I have only been on the Ted drive prior to placing my order. All of what I am doing is based on research that I have done so I don't feel that I can comment on how effectively the extra power can be deployed. What I'm planning to have is a completely usable car whether pottering around or if I want my hair on fire, the technology is available to achieve this. Its a good job I'm not starting my build now knowing what I do about high frequency electric motors as that is where I would be going now. The point is there is no point, cars like the Ultima shouldn't exist but thankfully they do so I'm going to enjoy my build and the drive to come,

Regards Tim

[Boosted LS1]

Nobody forces you to use the boost and you can always set a low limit some of the time :-)

[neal1980]

xrtim said:

I have no experience of what an Ultima is like to drive never mind a turbo charged Ultima, I have only been on the Ted drive prior to placing my order. All of what I am doing is based on research that I have done so I don't feel that I can comment on how effectively the extra power can be deployed. What I'm planning to have is a completely usable car whether pottering around or if I want my hair on fire, the technology is available to achieve this. Its a good job I'm not starting my build now knowing what I do about high frequency electric motors as that is where I would be going now. The point is there is no point, cars like the Ultima shouldn't exist but thankfully they do so I'm going to enjoy my build and the drive to come,

Regards Tim

I have a TVR which has an LS6.3 with twin turbos and it it ridiculous to drive, violent wheel spin over 100mph with ease.

I did think I've taken this car too far as the biggest section tyres I can run is 255!

I then fitted racelogic TC (now discontinued) but any good ECU can do this along with launch control and flat shift and the difference is NIGHT and DAY!

Put you foot down and now its gone no worry about the back jumping out and it will give me as much power to the ground as the tyres can take in any gear and any road conditions.

i'm now thinking of adding even more boost because the electronics just take care of everything and keep you on the road.

Will try and get it on the rollers next week but honestly I think if you get the right electronics in the Ultima with your big 335 section tyres that car would be un-believable!

Looking forward to seeing the LS turbo Ultima that is currently being built

[xrtim]

neal1980 said:

I have a TVR which has an LS6.3 with twin turbos and it it ridiculous to drive, violent wheel spin over 100mph with ease.

I did think I've taken this car too far as the biggest section tyres I can run is 255!

I then fitted racelogic TC (now discontinued) but any good ECU can do this along with launch control and flat shift and the difference is NIGHT and DAY!

Put you foot down and now its gone no worry about the back jumping out and it will give me as much power to the ground as the tyres can take in any gear and any road conditions.

i'm now thinking of adding even more boost because the electronics just take care of everything and keep you on the road.

Will try and get it on the rollers next week but honestly I think if you get the right electronics in the Ultima with your big 335 section tyres that car would be un-believable!

Looking forward to seeing the LS turbo Ultima that is currently being built


Thanks for the information, sounds like you have an awesome machine there. Nice to know what I think is possible can be achieved. What ECU are you running ? I'm looking at the Megasquirt MS3 Ultimate.it has everything that I need at a decent price
Regards Tim

[anonymous-user]

neal1980 said:

I have a TVR which has an LS6.3 with twin turbos and it it ridiculous to drive, violent wheel spin over 100mph with ease.

I did think I've taken this car too far as the biggest section tyres I can run is 255!

I then fitted racelogic TC (now discontinued) but any good ECU can do this along with launch control and flat shift and the difference is NIGHT and DAY!

Put you foot down and now its gone no worry about the back jumping out and it will give me as much power to the ground as the tyres can take in any gear and any road conditions.

i'm now thinking of adding even more boost because the electronics just take care of everything and keep you on the road.

Will try and get it on the rollers next week but honestly I think if you get the right electronics in the Ultima with your big 335 section tyres that car would be un-believable!

Looking forward to seeing the LS turbo Ultima that is currently being built

Sounds nuts! What HP/boost is that? I have an LSA Monaro with a TVS2300 supercharger making about 820HP. Modified rear end to take 285 tyres and mine too has RLTC (amazing tool). Mine's a fair bit heavier than your TVR and traction limited, even in the dry but the traction control comes into its own in the wet. No point adding more power (as much as I want to) as it will just make the electronics work harder. As you say, 100mph wheelspin is neither fun or useful.

I'd love a Sagaris with an LS7 though

[neal1980]

xrtim said:

Thanks for the information, sounds like you have an awesome machine there. Nice to know what I think is possible can be achieved. What ECU are you running ? I'm looking at the Megasquirt MS3 Ultimate.it has everything that I need at a decent price
Regards Tim

Hi Tim,

Been following your build on here I keep sneaking on having a look will be fantastic

I still have the MS2, I was going to change to MS3X to use all the extras including traction control but I stumbled upon a 8CYL racelogic brand new so fitted that. Will still probably upgrade eventually to get more inputs as want as many sensors as possible being datalogged.

Ms3 will be perfect to use very very capable!

I'm no driving god lol but its nice to hold it on launch control popping and spitting then literally catapult down the road its very addictive.

Before I had the traction I couldn't enjoy the car but sounds like you are going about it the correct way. With the MS3 you can also do some form of boost control, boost by speed/gear etc etc

Keep us posted on progress