Uprated 996 box? Sequential?
Discussion
Guys,
I know alot of you Ultima Guys use the 996 boxes. We are all limited to power and torque unless we use the £££££ turbo box. Frustrating when using the LS. I run an LS3 Porsche 996 and am in the same boat.
I have spoken to Quaife and they are willing to help if there is enough interest.
Imagine a big hp motor and a sequential box?
Any interest?
I know alot of you Ultima Guys use the 996 boxes. We are all limited to power and torque unless we use the £££££ turbo box. Frustrating when using the LS. I run an LS3 Porsche 996 and am in the same boat.
I have spoken to Quaife and they are willing to help if there is enough interest.
Imagine a big hp motor and a sequential box?
Any interest?
Going for either a box that will cater for extra tourqe or a sequential box is going to cost. Auto Bionics have developed a Porsche Turbo PDK but the price hasn’t been revealed yet but I expect it to be at least £10k. It does include traction control as well as being sequential though and I think this will be the cheapest sequential option. Jonny Mac is the agent for Albins sequential gearboxs and you can get helical as well as straight cut gears (the noise option) and this was coming out at about £16k last time I checked. Quaife would build a box but just to give you an idea the Quaife box in my Radical RXC is north of £20k. Even with an order for 12, which is probably the minimum number they would build (correct me if I’m wrong) 12 people would have to commit with deposits etc.
If you pm Huzaifa in Dubai he would probably help you with the AB price as he has had the first one.
If you pm Huzaifa in Dubai he would probably help you with the AB price as he has had the first one.
Racingroj said:
Going for either a box that will cater for extra tourqe or a sequential box is going to cost. Auto Bionics have developed a Porsche Turbo PDK but the price hasn’t been revealed yet but I expect it to be at least £10k. It does include traction control as well as being sequential though and I think this will be the cheapest sequential option. Jonny Mac is the agent for Albins sequential gearboxs and you can get helical as well as straight cut gears (the noise option) and this was coming out at about £16k last time I checked. Quaife would build a box but just to give you an idea the Quaife box in my Radical RXC is north of £20k. Even with an order for 12, which is probably the minimum number they would build (correct me if I’m wrong) 12 people would have to commit with deposits etc.
If you pm Huzaifa in Dubai he would probably help you with the AB price as he has had the first one.
The AB kit is well over £50K there is an enormous amount of "kit" involved.If you pm Huzaifa in Dubai he would probably help you with the AB price as he has had the first one.
At the time I was quoted they could "only" handle a mildly tuned LS3. though they were working on a clutch pack to handle more torque.
I stepped out at this point as I really like the power delivery from my S/C engine.
Racingroj said:
£50k for just the gearbox?
Actually I think you could do it for £40k without some of the frills.The system is Plex controlled and needs a Plex dash and other "black box" items.
Looking at a complete kit there is a MASSIVE amount of research and development involved that I suspect will never be recouped in the real world.
That said I honestly think the package is a bargain at their price.
But then you really NEED to want a flappy G/box which to some on this type of car is sacrilege.
I'm on the fence but given there was a higher torque version in development I might just do the man maths on this.
I'll never get my money back but you are only here once!
All good points F.C. I know some prefer the car in basic form and that’s fine, everyone has choices in life. There are many who love the car but need or want driver aids and enhancements. But getting back to topic I’m sure the AB system as supplied is as usual as good as you can get in terms of quality but the price is as usual eye watering despite the development costs. At that price they will recoup in just 2 sales. I think Jonny Macs Albins gearbox with Helical gears is the one I would choose. Very strong quality box.
The PDK and Albins are totally different gearboxes. PDK is a dual clutch unit, Albins isn’t and still uses a stock plate type clutch. The PDK is a production quality sports gearbox where as the Albins is more race car even with the helical gears.
Albins does not need any control system but as it is a sequential, will it work with GM engine management for spark cut during shifts? I don’t think GM management does this so you then have to price up something like Motec or similar, all price adding and something people need to be aware of. I know for certain GM management will not throttle blip for the down shifts.
PDK will need the control system as these gearboxes have two gears engaged all the time with just the two clutches hydraulically clamping and unclamping to provide drive. The AB system does, I believe, use the Porsche gearbox controller and their own ECU software, this is the clever bit and I must admit they have moved this gearbox into the aftermarket arena now. I wish I had their skill and knowledge. Yes it going to be expensive and yes you have to want this option but who else is doing this?
So, both are very different, both will have their own necessary parts but both cannot be compared like for like. Chalk and cheese in my book, but there are now options whether it’s manual sequential or production type dual clutch for us to choose from.
Albins does not need any control system but as it is a sequential, will it work with GM engine management for spark cut during shifts? I don’t think GM management does this so you then have to price up something like Motec or similar, all price adding and something people need to be aware of. I know for certain GM management will not throttle blip for the down shifts.
PDK will need the control system as these gearboxes have two gears engaged all the time with just the two clutches hydraulically clamping and unclamping to provide drive. The AB system does, I believe, use the Porsche gearbox controller and their own ECU software, this is the clever bit and I must admit they have moved this gearbox into the aftermarket arena now. I wish I had their skill and knowledge. Yes it going to be expensive and yes you have to want this option but who else is doing this?
So, both are very different, both will have their own necessary parts but both cannot be compared like for like. Chalk and cheese in my book, but there are now options whether it’s manual sequential or production type dual clutch for us to choose from.
The price F.C. is quoting is vastly different to what I was told!
I would love one of their pdk packages for track, the manual gearbox is definitely a hindrance on track.
On road I’m on the fence. Pdk boxes are awesome, a road ultima with a pdk would be amazing, but I do like the old right hand shift, it suits the drama so well.
But absolutely, a pdk equipped car would be quicker everywhere in every situation imo.
Wish I had deep enough pockets for a pair lol
I would love one of their pdk packages for track, the manual gearbox is definitely a hindrance on track.
On road I’m on the fence. Pdk boxes are awesome, a road ultima with a pdk would be amazing, but I do like the old right hand shift, it suits the drama so well.
But absolutely, a pdk equipped car would be quicker everywhere in every situation imo.
Wish I had deep enough pockets for a pair lol
deadscoob said:
The price F.C. is quoting is vastly different to what I was told!
I would love one of their pdk packages for track, the manual gearbox is definitely a hindrance on track.
On road I’m on the fence. Pdk boxes are awesome, a road ultima with a pdk would be amazing, but I do like the old right hand shift, it suits the drama so well.
But absolutely, a pdk equipped car would be quicker everywhere in every situation imo.
Wish I had deep enough pockets for a pair lol
I have a written quotation.I would love one of their pdk packages for track, the manual gearbox is definitely a hindrance on track.
On road I’m on the fence. Pdk boxes are awesome, a road ultima with a pdk would be amazing, but I do like the old right hand shift, it suits the drama so well.
But absolutely, a pdk equipped car would be quicker everywhere in every situation imo.
Wish I had deep enough pockets for a pair lol
Just out of curiosity I looked at the ratios in the Caral box versus the G50-03 that was in my first GTR. The G50 works out to 12-1 7-1 and 5-1 thru the first three gears. The Caral box is 13.45-1, 8-1 and 5.91-1 1st thru 3rd gear. For those of you looking at transaxels for an L.S. powered Ultima I will tell you that the G50-3 box is geared to low and the Caral box is even worse. In my first GTR first gear was only good for gardening chores such as pulling out tree stumps. Perhaps the Caral box could be equipped with optional gears. The G50-3 is equipped with a 3.44 final drive and a 3.5 first gear which works out to a 12-1 ratio. My new GTR has a 996 gt2 transmission which has the same 3.44 final but unfortunately has a 3.89 first gear stock, this would have been even worse than the stock G50. California Motorsports have changed the first two ratios in the GT2 box to 3.15, 2.05, and third remains the same 1.41 but all three of these gears are physically stronger than the stock GT2 gears.
I know this is a bit in the weeds, but this issue has a lot to do with the character of the driving experience of the car. Also at 82kg 180 lbs American the Caral box is heavier than both Porsche boxes. Lee
I know this is a bit in the weeds, but this issue has a lot to do with the character of the driving experience of the car. Also at 82kg 180 lbs American the Caral box is heavier than both Porsche boxes. Lee
The guy I spoke to at the Kit Car show from Caral said there was another version of the gearbox that was geared for 250mph at 7k so would presume that it would have taller gears throughout, he also mentioned that there is a helical or straight cut gear set can't remember which available for racing as I switched of at the £20k price for the gearset. With the prices of the Porsche boxes going higher 2nd hand it might be a really good option for a new gearbox
If your wanting a 996 sequential box then I have just the thing.
A couple of years ago I accidentally purchased a SQS sequential shifter for the 996 GT2/3 gearbox, it was used in a GT3 racer and they said it saved them 4 seconds a lap round silverstone over using the same box manually... i bought it second hand so its second hand price rather than the £4.5k they are new
I also have a 996 GT3 Cup racer box with steel syncros etc and a custom final drive made by Califonia motorsport specifically for a 6500-7000rpm redline with a 200+mph.
For those wanting a much cheaper project box I also have a GT2 box, the casing is cracked so it will need welding and the internals checking. I thought it was worth a punt as it would be £8k in perfect condition.
I don't think Im going to need a mid engine box for many years as the GTT is on hold while I build something I currently find far more interesting.
A couple of years ago I accidentally purchased a SQS sequential shifter for the 996 GT2/3 gearbox, it was used in a GT3 racer and they said it saved them 4 seconds a lap round silverstone over using the same box manually... i bought it second hand so its second hand price rather than the £4.5k they are new
I also have a 996 GT3 Cup racer box with steel syncros etc and a custom final drive made by Califonia motorsport specifically for a 6500-7000rpm redline with a 200+mph.
For those wanting a much cheaper project box I also have a GT2 box, the casing is cracked so it will need welding and the internals checking. I thought it was worth a punt as it would be £8k in perfect condition.
I don't think Im going to need a mid engine box for many years as the GTT is on hold while I build something I currently find far more interesting.
I'll toss in another vote for the beefier g96-50/g97-50 turbo transaxles. There's a reason they're more expensive and they can take the torque that big LS motors can put down. I've got a factory g96-50.20 with the gt2 bell housing, and my LS7 combo is pumping out 695hp/624tq(846nm) at the crank, which is more than 30% over the rated capacity of the Caral box. You will most likely spend more for a Quaife, Mendeola, Griffin, Ricardo, or Graziano than you would on a built g96 or g97, especially if you want it to stand up to LS power.
Will
Will
humble said:
I'll toss in another vote for the beefier g96-50/g97-50 turbo transaxles. There's a reason they're more expensive and they can take the torque that big LS motors can put down. I've got a factory g96-50.20 with the gt2 bell housing, and my LS7 combo is pumping out 695hp/624tq(846nm) at the crank, which is more than 30% over the rated capacity of the Caral box. You will most likely spend more for a Quaife, Mendeola, Griffin, Ricardo, or Graziano than you would on a built g96 or g97, especially if you want it to stand up to LS power.
Will
The Ricardo box out of the ford GT is capable of taking the abuse, hangs out the back a little but works just fine on a fully built twin turbo Chevy SBC.Will
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