Supercharged Ultimas on race track
Discussion
Hi all,
this year on a track day, I was passed by a Porsche on the straight. This is of course completely unacceptable - I immediatly called my engine guy and we startet looking for a remedy. A bit silly i know, but thats how I got started on that new engine thing and I already had put a little mony aside, since I knew this day would come.
So - a new engine. My power target is in the range of 700-800 hp at the crank (currently around 500hp). I am looking at 2 options: lightweight and high revs or supercharged. A somewhat durable lightweight engine, that can take high revs on a racetrack is quite expensive (even more expensive than a crate LT4/LT5 with all the extras) - but it is possible and I know that we can make that work.
Supercharging on the other hand is more cost effective and needs less revs. But I am unsure about those rising intake temperatures that come with forced induction. I need to be able to complete a 30min. stint on a variety of tracks without heat soak on days as hot as 30°C. Does anybody have experience to share concerning supercharged Ultimas above 700hp, that are driven hard for 30min and longer on race tracks?
this year on a track day, I was passed by a Porsche on the straight. This is of course completely unacceptable - I immediatly called my engine guy and we startet looking for a remedy. A bit silly i know, but thats how I got started on that new engine thing and I already had put a little mony aside, since I knew this day would come.
So - a new engine. My power target is in the range of 700-800 hp at the crank (currently around 500hp). I am looking at 2 options: lightweight and high revs or supercharged. A somewhat durable lightweight engine, that can take high revs on a racetrack is quite expensive (even more expensive than a crate LT4/LT5 with all the extras) - but it is possible and I know that we can make that work.
Supercharging on the other hand is more cost effective and needs less revs. But I am unsure about those rising intake temperatures that come with forced induction. I need to be able to complete a 30min. stint on a variety of tracks without heat soak on days as hot as 30°C. Does anybody have experience to share concerning supercharged Ultimas above 700hp, that are driven hard for 30min and longer on race tracks?
jok said:
Hi all,
this year on a track day, I was passed by a Porsche on the straight. This is of course completely unacceptable - I immediatly called my engine guy and we startet looking for a remedy. A bit silly i know, but thats how I got started on that new engine thing and I already had put a little mony aside, since I knew this day would come.
So - a new engine. My power target is in the range of 700-800 hp at the crank (currently around 500hp). I am looking at 2 options: lightweight and high revs or supercharged. A somewhat durable lightweight engine, that can take high revs on a racetrack is quite expensive (even more expensive than a crate LT4/LT5 with all the extras) - but it is possible and I know that we can make that work.
Supercharging on the other hand is more cost effective and needs less revs. But I am unsure about those rising intake temperatures that come with forced induction. I need to be able to complete a 30min. stint on a variety of tracks without heat soak on days as hot as 30°C. Does anybody have experience to share concerning supercharged Ultimas above 700hp, that are driven hard for 30min and longer on race tracks?
How long was the straight and what gearbox do you have i.e. what's it geared for, for top speed?this year on a track day, I was passed by a Porsche on the straight. This is of course completely unacceptable - I immediatly called my engine guy and we startet looking for a remedy. A bit silly i know, but thats how I got started on that new engine thing and I already had put a little mony aside, since I knew this day would come.
So - a new engine. My power target is in the range of 700-800 hp at the crank (currently around 500hp). I am looking at 2 options: lightweight and high revs or supercharged. A somewhat durable lightweight engine, that can take high revs on a racetrack is quite expensive (even more expensive than a crate LT4/LT5 with all the extras) - but it is possible and I know that we can make that work.
Supercharging on the other hand is more cost effective and needs less revs. But I am unsure about those rising intake temperatures that come with forced induction. I need to be able to complete a 30min. stint on a variety of tracks without heat soak on days as hot as 30°C. Does anybody have experience to share concerning supercharged Ultimas above 700hp, that are driven hard for 30min and longer on race tracks?
Oh and what model Porsche?
What F.C. said.
What engine do you currently have?
It’s “easy” to make a Porsche turbo quicker and faster in a straight line than a 500hp Ultima.
Current turbo S does 0-100 in a smudge over 6 secs so also quicker than most 500hp quoted Ultimas.
I think lots of ow era over estimate their power btw.
What engine do you currently have?
It’s “easy” to make a Porsche turbo quicker and faster in a straight line than a 500hp Ultima.
Current turbo S does 0-100 in a smudge over 6 secs so also quicker than most 500hp quoted Ultimas.
I think lots of ow era over estimate their power btw.
The Porsche was a 991 GT3 RS MK2. Driven properly, these things are ridiculusly fast.
Currently I have a built 6l SBC with 23° heads and a 750 QuickFuel carb. The transmission is a custom built Porsche G64/20 2. I know for sure that the new engine will be EFI and I am leaning more and more to NA. So far I have been unable to find a FI setup for my Ultima that does not incorporate some major compromises in terms of body modification or AC delete, etc.
Currently I have a built 6l SBC with 23° heads and a 750 QuickFuel carb. The transmission is a custom built Porsche G64/20 2. I know for sure that the new engine will be EFI and I am leaning more and more to NA. So far I have been unable to find a FI setup for my Ultima that does not incorporate some major compromises in terms of body modification or AC delete, etc.
Maybe not the best example since mine just exploded at the track...
I run a lightly modded LS7 with stage 3.2 Texas-speed cam kit, upgraded springs/rockers, high capacity oil pump, and MSD intake, that was making just shy of 700hp through cats. With upgraded springs on the Ultima (600F, 850R) I could out corner and out run a 991.2 gt3. In fact the only car that made me work for a pass was a McLaren 720s with a talented driver and sticky tires. I would suggest a naturally aspirated setup over a supercharger mainly for heat management and and track reliability (even having just blown mine up). Better milage, easier fitment, and equal power for the same cost.
Will
I run a lightly modded LS7 with stage 3.2 Texas-speed cam kit, upgraded springs/rockers, high capacity oil pump, and MSD intake, that was making just shy of 700hp through cats. With upgraded springs on the Ultima (600F, 850R) I could out corner and out run a 991.2 gt3. In fact the only car that made me work for a pass was a McLaren 720s with a talented driver and sticky tires. I would suggest a naturally aspirated setup over a supercharger mainly for heat management and and track reliability (even having just blown mine up). Better milage, easier fitment, and equal power for the same cost.
Will
humble said:
...I would suggest a naturally aspirated setup over a supercharger mainly for heat management and and track reliability...
My thoughts exactly. Thank you for sharing! I have had a fire supression system in my GTR since i first took it to the track. Never needed it, and I hope I never will. I would recommend it to anybody doing trackdays though. I hope your repairs will be as quick and painless as possible!
humble said:
Maybe not the best example since mine just exploded at the track...
I run a lightly modded LS7 with stage 3.2 Texas-speed cam kit, upgraded springs/rockers, high capacity oil pump, and MSD intake, that was making just shy of 700hp through cats. With upgraded springs on the Ultima (600F, 850R) I could out corner and out run a 991.2 gt3. In fact the only car that made me work for a pass was a McLaren 720s with a talented driver and sticky tires. I would suggest a naturally aspirated setup over a supercharger mainly for heat management and and track reliability (even having just blown mine up). Better milage, easier fitment, and equal power for the same cost.
Will
Why did it blow up will? I run a lightly modded LS7 with stage 3.2 Texas-speed cam kit, upgraded springs/rockers, high capacity oil pump, and MSD intake, that was making just shy of 700hp through cats. With upgraded springs on the Ultima (600F, 850R) I could out corner and out run a 991.2 gt3. In fact the only car that made me work for a pass was a McLaren 720s with a talented driver and sticky tires. I would suggest a naturally aspirated setup over a supercharger mainly for heat management and and track reliability (even having just blown mine up). Better milage, easier fitment, and equal power for the same cost.
Will
let me guess. #1 and 2 Rod Bearings?
if so try Katech ARE dry sump oil pan (Stage 1 ok)
If the crank shaft is no longer serviceable try Callies LS Magnum XL (Ultra light weight and work of art)
About the same price as a new Chevrolet LS7 crank. (Need to chamfer the Ti Rods a bit due to the larger radius of the rod journal)
http://www.callies.com/catalog/product/magnum-xl-l...
if so try Katech ARE dry sump oil pan (Stage 1 ok)
If the crank shaft is no longer serviceable try Callies LS Magnum XL (Ultra light weight and work of art)
About the same price as a new Chevrolet LS7 crank. (Need to chamfer the Ti Rods a bit due to the larger radius of the rod journal)
http://www.callies.com/catalog/product/magnum-xl-l...
let me guess. #1 and 2 Rod Bearings?
if so try Katech ARE dry sump oil pan (Stage 1 ok)
If the crank shaft is no longer serviceable try Callies LS Magnum XL (Ultra light weight and work of art)
About the same price as a new Chevrolet LS7 crank. (Need to chamfer the Ti Rods a bit due to the larger radius of the rod journal)
http://www.callies.com/catalog/product/magnum-xl-l...
if so try Katech ARE dry sump oil pan (Stage 1 ok)
If the crank shaft is no longer serviceable try Callies LS Magnum XL (Ultra light weight and work of art)
About the same price as a new Chevrolet LS7 crank. (Need to chamfer the Ti Rods a bit due to the larger radius of the rod journal)
http://www.callies.com/catalog/product/magnum-xl-l...
Storer said:
Might be worth a chat with MacG Racing before you do anything.
They run a modified Ultima in the Britcar racing series with an LS7. It took them some time but they are now a front runner. They have discovered the way to make their car faster than Porsche and Ferrari.
Interesting, but looks like they had to put the Ultima through a multi year development programme and turn it into a different car to be competitive. A standard Ultima would be dreadful for any kind of serious competition use.They run a modified Ultima in the Britcar racing series with an LS7. It took them some time but they are now a front runner. They have discovered the way to make their car faster than Porsche and Ferrari.
humble said:
Maybe not the best example since mine just exploded at the track...
I run a lightly modded LS7 with stage 3.2 Texas-speed cam kit, upgraded springs/rockers, high capacity oil pump, and MSD intake, that was making just shy of 700hp through cats. With upgraded springs on the Ultima (600F, 850R) I could out corner and out run a 991.2 gt3. In fact the only car that made me work for a pass was a McLaren 720s with a talented driver and sticky tires. I would suggest a naturally aspirated setup over a supercharger mainly for heat management and and track reliability (even having just blown mine up). Better milage, easier fitment, and equal power for the same cost.
Will
I run a lightly modded LS7 with stage 3.2 Texas-speed cam kit, upgraded springs/rockers, high capacity oil pump, and MSD intake, that was making just shy of 700hp through cats. With upgraded springs on the Ultima (600F, 850R) I could out corner and out run a 991.2 gt3. In fact the only car that made me work for a pass was a McLaren 720s with a talented driver and sticky tires. I would suggest a naturally aspirated setup over a supercharger mainly for heat management and and track reliability (even having just blown mine up). Better milage, easier fitment, and equal power for the same cost.
Will
exploded?????
what happened?
jok said:
Hi all,
this year on a track day, I was passed by a Porsche on the straight. This is of course completely unacceptable - I immediatly called my engine guy and we startet looking for a remedy. A bit silly i know, but thats how I got started on that new engine thing and I already had put a little mony aside, since I knew this day would come.
So - a new engine. My power target is in the range of 700-800 hp at the crank (currently around 500hp). I am looking at 2 options: lightweight and high revs or supercharged. A somewhat durable lightweight engine, that can take high revs on a racetrack is quite expensive (even more expensive than a crate LT4/LT5 with all the extras) - but it is possible and I know that we can make that work.
Supercharging on the other hand is more cost effective and needs less revs. But I am unsure about those rising intake temperatures that come with forced induction. I need to be able to complete a 30min. stint on a variety of tracks without heat soak on days as hot as 30°C. Does anybody have experience to share concerning supercharged Ultimas above 700hp, that are driven hard for 30min and longer on race tracks?
this year on a track day, I was passed by a Porsche on the straight. This is of course completely unacceptable - I immediatly called my engine guy and we startet looking for a remedy. A bit silly i know, but thats how I got started on that new engine thing and I already had put a little mony aside, since I knew this day would come.
So - a new engine. My power target is in the range of 700-800 hp at the crank (currently around 500hp). I am looking at 2 options: lightweight and high revs or supercharged. A somewhat durable lightweight engine, that can take high revs on a racetrack is quite expensive (even more expensive than a crate LT4/LT5 with all the extras) - but it is possible and I know that we can make that work.
Supercharging on the other hand is more cost effective and needs less revs. But I am unsure about those rising intake temperatures that come with forced induction. I need to be able to complete a 30min. stint on a variety of tracks without heat soak on days as hot as 30°C. Does anybody have experience to share concerning supercharged Ultimas above 700hp, that are driven hard for 30min and longer on race tracks?
exactly the same as my prob.
I have a L98 (ls2 + ls3 head) heavily tuned.
I think 500 / 550whp, but with the gt3 991 there is no story !!!
they also have very good brakes even if they weigh 300kg more than my gtr (I have 6-pot kit brembo , 320mm).
anyway now I'm preparing an NA ls7 with about 700 / 750whp at 8000rpm (I hope ....) with an infinity of modifies to make it reliable for 1h on track !!!!!
forged cranck,,trickflow head, connecting rods, springs, pistons, etc.
I will pay if I will see 750 on dyno !!!
this is the agreement.
supercharger have prob with high temp (very much in gtr in summer specially) and i don't know if is realiable for a 1 h....
in any case, the 991 has a lot of electronic aids, starting with the pdk ....and much more
win easy .......
845ste said:
exactly the same as my prob.
I have a L98 (ls2 + ls3 head) heavily tuned.
I think 500 / 550whp, but with the gt3 991 there is no story !!!
they also have very good brakes even if they weigh 300kg more than my gtr (I have 6-pot kit brembo , 320mm).
anyway now I'm preparing an NA ls7 with about 700 / 750whp at 8000rpm (I hope ....) with an infinity of modifies to make it reliable for 1h on track !!!!!
forged cranck,,trickflow head, connecting rods, springs, pistons, etc.
I will pay if I will see 750 on dyno !!!
this is the agreement.
supercharger have prob with high temp (very much in gtr in summer specially) and i don't know if is realiable for a 1 h....
in any case, the 991 has a lot of electronic aids, starting with the pdk ....and much more
win easy .......
I have just started the build. We are going to use an SBC block with hybrid heads. The rest of the specs and targets are pretty much the same as yours.
I don't have a root cause yet, but my best guess right now is oil foaming/aeration, reduced lubricity and spun big end bearing that went as badly as it could go. Insurance has been slow because of the holidays, but I'm finally getting traction now, so I'll be able to tear the car down soon to see what actually happened.
Will
Will
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