Budget for track use

[Lunarr]

Hello,

My english is not perfect, sorry for that.



I look these cars for years.
Anyone on this forum could inquire me about the average track cost for an Ultima GTR/Evolution/RS with an LS7 640/700 hp and G50 transmission ?
The cost are similar compared with a Lotus Exige S3 cup 430 ?

And another question :
A factory built model is reliable for an occasionnal track use ( 10 to 15 trackdays per year ) ?

Thanks.

[Lunarr]

UP

[UltimaCH]

10 to 15 track days per year. That's a large definition of occasional IMO

[Lunarr]

Everything is relative .

[T-Rev]

If you want to do that many track days a year in an Ultima with 600+bhp, you're going to need a 'very' specialist built car, probably close to race spec!

Bear in mind the Ultima is a road car and great for occasional track use, say 2 or 3 times a year! So with a significant increase in the amount of track use, you'll be putting a lot of stress on everything? As such, you'll need a lot of mods for the car to cope!

If I were you with that amount of track use in mind, I'd be looking for a race spec Ultima, or at least after buying an Ultima, expect to rebuild/upgrade to race spec?

Check out https://www.macgracing.co.uk/ as Jonny runs a heavily modified Ultima GTR, called a Teranis in the Britcar British Endurance Championship.

[macgtech]

This is very dependant on how capable the driver is, the circuit, the power output of the car, the tyres used and how good the build is. An Exige etc would be a very capable car and with some sensible mods to ensure items like brakes are cooled, which is often overlooked, should be very reliable and would be a great option on track. Ultima running costs will be higher in terms of fuel for sure, and since its heavier and more powerful, would be harder on brakes etc.

[Lunarr]

Justly, the Ultima is normally a bit lighter than a Lotus Exige S3 ( 950kg dry vs 1 050 kg dry for the Lotus)

What are the weak points of a factory built Ultima Evolution /RS with 700 hp for track use ?

Approximatelvely what are the costs for obtain a relatively reliable trackday car (like a 911 GT3 or like a lotus Exige at least) ?

[deadscoob]

I’d take the dry weight with a punch of salt. Could it be 950kg dry? Yes. How many actually are? Not many…

You can’t compare an Ultima with a GT3. Porsche have spent 20+ years evolving and improving all aspects of GT cars, a current GT3 is over 1 minute quicker round the Nurburgring than the original 996. That performance increase hasn’t happened with Ultima. An Ultima RS will be quicker than an Evo/GTR on track due to its bodywork, but it doesn’t have any more mechanical grip or improvements to areas that will be common to Porsche. They’re very different cars, nowadays a 500hp 992 GT3 will be quicker on track than a std spec 500hp Ultima imo.

Posting this as a realist and a long term owner of both cars.

[Lunarr]

Not in the same proportion than the GT3 but the chassis of the Ultima has improved too.
The Evo chassis is a lot stiffer than the previous chassis of the Ultima GTR.

Another point is the improvement of the mecanical grip between a 992 and a 996 GT3 result principally of the improvement of the tires and suspensions for 25 years.

I agree that a GT3 is more reliable on track than a standard Ultima.
imho, An Ultima is more comparable to a Lotus Exige Cup.

[dandare]

deadscoob said:

I’d take the dry weight with a punch of salt. Could it be 950kg dry? Yes. How many actually are? Not many…

You can’t compare an Ultima with a GT3. Porsche have spent 20+ years evolving and improving all aspects of GT cars, a current GT3 is over 1 minute quicker round the Nurburgring than the original 996. That performance increase hasn’t happened with Ultima. An Ultima RS will be quicker than an Evo/GTR on track due to its bodywork, but it doesn’t have any more mechanical grip or improvements to areas that will be common to Porsche. They’re very different cars, nowadays a 500hp 992 GT3 will be quicker on track than a std spec 500hp Ultima imo.

Posting this as a realist and a long term owner of both cars.

Have you weighed your Ultima?
Have you ever driven either of your cars on the Nürburgring?
Regarding the Ultima not improving for a longish time: to be fair it did start out way ahead of any Porsche when it came out. (at least that's how it always seemed).
I'm genuinly interested if you know..

[Lunarr]

A 2007 Ultima GTR with 720 hp and 2007 road tires (with much less performance compared to the actual Cup2) lapped the top gear track in 1:12:80.
For now, there are no road car of Porsche that matched this laptime.

[ROWDYRENAULT]

I love it when folks drop " fact bombs" . Yes, the Ultima did do that and then 2 seconds faster on slicks. As far as reliability goes not only would I stack my home-built Ultima up against a factory Porsche but if I screwed up or simply broke something on the Ultima I can fix it for 40% of what the same cost would be on a P car. IMHO

[deadscoob]

dandare said:

Have you weighed your Ultima?
Have you ever driven either of your cars on the Nürburgring?
Regarding the Ultima not improving for a longish time: to be fair it did start out way ahead of any Porsche when it came out. (at least that's how it always seemed).
I'm genuinly interested if you know..

Yes it’s been weighed and properly cornered weighted.
Like most builds with AC, oil cooler etc it’s closer to 1100kg wet.
No to the NurburgRing, yes to other tracks. It’s not a like for like comparison as the RS is on pure road tyres the ultimate always on track tyres, but a broad generalisation is the ultima is straight line quick obviously, quicker in high speed corners and mid speed and a little slower slow speed. This is an old 997 RS though which as you probably know is a different kettle of fish from the 991 onwards GT3s and RS’s especially.
Don’t disagree on the Top Gear lap, it still remains mightily impressive even 10+ years later. However since then performance cars have taken a huge leap forward (if we use the Nurburgring as the measure) via technology and aero (a current GT3 is what, 40 seconds a lap quicker than a 997.2 version?).
That’s the point I was trying to make. Technology has improved cars in this area immensely, obviously you can also argue they’ve been ruined in others.
I have no desire for a 991+ era GT3 or RS for example, regardless of how accomplished they are with their tech.

[deadscoob]

ROWDYRENAULT said:

I love it when folks drop " fact bombs" . Yes, the Ultima did do that and then 2 seconds faster on slicks. As far as reliability goes not only would I stack my home-built Ultima up against a factory Porsche but if I screwed up or simply broke something on the Ultima I can fix it for 40% of what the same cost would be on a P car. IMHO

100%. Although fixing for 40% of the cost could sometimes be 5%! Bearings, driveshafts, bushes, coolant hoses etc are a fraction of the price.

[wannabe-racer]

In all my tracks days around the UK, I have never once seen an Ultima on track. They are like hens teeth which is a shame as I love them.

With that many track days you may want to consider a race car designed for that level of pounding. This is what I am doing, I sold my road car that can be taken on track to replace it with something designed for it's intended purpose.