On-the-Road cost of an Ultima GTR with LS7 engine - info.

On-the-Road cost of an Ultima GTR with LS7 engine - info.

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pilbeam_mp62

Original Poster:

952 posts

129 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
Prospective Ultima builders may find this information useful :-

This is what it will cost you to buy the parts required to build an Ultima GTR with an American Speed LS7 engine, to the factory specification.

This list includes EVERYTHING to get the car on-the-road, except your labour to build it.

(My car cost me a little bit more than this, as I used the excellent skills of the factory team to do a few jobs that I could not handle myself)

I am sure there are some items where money could possibly be saved, if you have additional time, skill, knowledge etc.

Chassis £3,368
Full roll cage £1,058
Alloy panel kit £282
Alloy double skin kit £217
Pedal set £223
LS7 accelerator pedal fitting kit £55
Master cylinders £246
Wishbones £626
Front suspension upper and lower ball joints. £97
Rear uprights £554
Rear toe in adjusters including rose joints and fixing bolts. £147
Front uprights £554
Front hubs and bearings £273
Rear hubs and bearings £429
Handbrake lever and cables £113
Brake line kit £221
Steering column £248
Steering rack £561
Cooling system £845
Gear linkage G50 rod £420
Petrol tank left £531
Petrol tank right £531
Intrax dampers £1,297
Drive shafts £759
Wiring loom £331
GTR body £4,790
Hinges and locks £591
GTR windscreen and sidescreens £651
Side window helicopter vents pair £22
Windscreen bonding kit £40
Gas strut kit for rear canopy £68
Front clip stay £29
GT spec mid mounted rear wing £1,898
Set of body grills in black anodised expanded alloy £219
Ultima electric door mirrors pair £338
Sealed side luggage containers £161
Luggage container covers in carbon fibre £138
12.7" brake kit £2,616
Handbrake calipers £316
Fuel system for LS7 engine £936
Braided stainless steel clutch pipe and fittings £75
Re-packable xhaust system in mild steel with cats. £2,905
Ceramic coating to exhaust system in silver £552
Oil cooler kit £458
Silicon water hose kit £181
Transaxle invert kit (mountings and breather kit) £228
Engine/transaxle adapter Chevy/Porsche. G50 £552
Clutch kit (cover, plate, thrust bearing and bolts) £569
Porsche starter ring gear £109
Slave cylinder £88
Clutch fork, pin & bearings £202
Starter motors gear reduction type £322
Speedo sensor £75
LS7 engine mounting kit £186
Dry sump kit for LS7 engine £917
Aluminised alloy cloth canopy heat protection £69
Steering wheel 320mm leather road £113
Steering wheel boss with deformable structure £44
Solid alloy gear knob £24
Leather dashboard trim kit £449
Leather Ultima seats - pair £918
Lumber support (pneumatic)- pair £97
Seat runners pair £64
Six point fixing seatbelts £299
Air conditioning kit including heater £1,374
Rear Bulkhead carpet £92
Side lights £351
Triple headlight kit £481
Relays and fuses. £90
Switches (rocker type) £79
Pantograph wiper and washer kit £278
Battery cables £53
Battery (Odyssey Extreme 40) £167
Battery fixing clamp £21
Ultima instruments £661
Headlamp flash relay £40
Horn £12
LS7 loom fitting kit £78
13" x 18" & 9" x 18" split rim wheels £2,293
335/30/ZR/18 tyres pair £771
245/35/ZR/18 tyres pair £454
AS Engine (including shipping and VAT) £18,347
G50/03 gearbox (recon - from factory) £3,680
Unleaded fuel restrictor (2 off) £30
Cat 2 Immobiliser £161
Charge Air Con system £92
Lubricants (oil, antifreeze, gearbox oil) £158
IVA Test fee £518
Registration + 6 mths Road Tax £183
Fill with fuel £92
Tax disc holder, number plates, screen visor £36


Grand Total (ON THE ROAD) £66,884




EDITED :- I had mistakenly added VAT twice on the engine costs, so I have now redone the list with VAT included in each item.


Edited by pilbeam_mp62 on Tuesday 27th October 10:53

spatz

1,783 posts

114 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
that sounds very reasonable for a LS7 build, still there is another 2000-4000 pounds in smaller bits and tools that I would calculate in , I needed approx 12 tubes of sealant and there are some specail tools you need that not even I had already and I would say I am quite well equipped.

pilbeam_mp62

Original Poster:

952 posts

129 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
spatz said:
that sounds very reasonable for a LS7 build, still there is another 2000-4000 pounds in smaller bits and tools that I would calculate in , I needed approx 12 tubes of sealant and there are some specail tools you need that not even I had already and I would say I am quite well equipped.
Perhaps you would be good enough to give us all a comprehensive list of these "smaller bits and tools" together with their prices so that prospective builders can see where this extra "2000-4000 pounds" comes from.

I think the reason you used 12 tubes of sealant is that you seemed unable to use contact adhesive on your rear canopy heat insulation mat - a problem that no other builder seeemd to have smile

I have spent a lot of time and effort on this list - what nobody needs is some casual reply which is completely unsubstantiated.


Regards

ivanj

203 posts

152 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
AS Engine (including shipping and VAT) £18,347

For a LS7????

Why is it so much?

pilbeam_mp62

Original Poster:

952 posts

129 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
ivanj said:
AS Engine (including shipping and VAT) £18,347

For a LS7????

Why is it so much?
Compared to what ??

Regards
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UltimaCH

3,048 posts

117 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
Hi Kelvin,
Your list is VERY interesting as this is the type of setup I have in mind yes Just a quick word regarding the cost of the AS LS7. You mention "shipping and Vat" with the price. Have you added up this price in you sub total then calculated VAT twice in the amount?

UltimaCH

3,048 posts

117 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
ivanj said:
AS Engine (including shipping and VAT) £18,347

For a LS7????

Why is it so much?
The LS7 is not a simple crate engine but a turnkey engine with all the parts needed to install in an Ultima ($25'550.- + shipping for the "standard" LS7 according to AS site).

pilbeam_mp62

Original Poster:

952 posts

129 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
UltimaCH said:
Hi Kelvin,
Your list is VERY interesting as this is the type of setup I have in mind yes Just a quick word regarding the cost of the AS LS7. You mention "shipping and Vat" with the price. Have you added up this price in you sub total then calculated VAT twice in the amount?
No, I didn't do that.

This is the total sterling equivalent price to me when the US$ cost of the engine was added to the GBP costs incurred by me when the engine arrived in the UK. Obviously, if you import the engine from USA, the exchange rate is highly relevant.

Regards

EDITED:- Sorry - I see what you mean

Yes - I mistakenly DID do that smile
I have now edited the OP
Edited by pilbeam_mp62 on Tuesday 27th October 10:19


Edited by pilbeam_mp62 on Tuesday 27th October 11:12

UltimaCH

3,048 posts

117 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
biggrin

pilbeam_mp62

Original Poster:

952 posts

129 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
UltimaCH said:
biggrin
My first post has now been amended - I had mistakenly added VAT twice on the engine costs.

It's now under 67 grand !!

Blimey - if it's that cheap, I am going to build another one !! smile

Regards

s62

433 posts

125 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
pilbeam_mp62 - thanks for a VERY USEFUL post

YIIHAA

331 posts

180 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
Very interesting. I never had the guts or inclination to add up the costs of my GTR (built back in 2001).

Still interested in why Ultima insist on saying "from £30,000" under the GTR720 spec on this page:
http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/Content.aspx?f=recor...

From £65k for an LS7 car still sounds like very good value and sounds more believable. I think the £30k number just lacks credibility and makes potential customers suspicious of hidden costs. Some people have said that Ultima publish all the costs, but from my own experience putting together a full list of what is required is a tricky job.

Why don't the factory just provide a menu pricing based on a few standard setups, all in? They can still publish the full price list for those who want to mix and match components.

pilbeam_mp62

Original Poster:

952 posts

129 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
YIIHAA said:
Why don't the factory just provide a menu pricing based on a few standard setups, all in? They can still publish the full price list for those who want to mix and match components.
As a starting point, an Ultima can be FAR cheaper than the cost of my build - You don't have to have a carbon wing, AP brakes, leather seats, Intrax dampers, double skin kit, full roll cage etc. etc. - There are thousands and thousands of pounds to be saved if you do your homework, and you source some parts yourself. I think it is a bit unfair to say that £30k "lacks credibility".

You don't NEED an LS7 (I chose one, but an LS3 would do a great job IMO) If you go with an LS3 you don't need the dry sump kit. You can go with a lower powered carburettor SBC if that suits your budget better.

I personally don't think it is appropriate for the factory to give "menu pricing" based on a few standard set-ups, because there will always be people who want to put their own stamp on the car.

Regards

spatz

1,783 posts

114 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
pilbeam_mp62 said:
spatz said:
that sounds very reasonable for a LS7 build, still there is another 2000-4000 pounds in smaller bits and tools that I would calculate in , I needed approx 12 tubes of sealant and there are some specail tools you need that not even I had already and I would say I am quite well equipped.
Perhaps you would be good enough to give us all a comprehensive list of these "smaller bits and tools" together with their prices so that prospective builders can see where this extra "2000-4000 pounds" comes from. Regards
Not sure how I should reply on this, makes me thinking if you really did build the car by yourself..........

So here a probably not complete list:


Air riveter, universal hand riveter for rivnuts and pop rivets, 90 degree angle drill, a complete set of drills and sinking grinders, electric nibbler, soldering iron, air compressor, crane for lifting the engine, build trolley, tools for american nuts and dash connectors, multimeter.......just to mention the most important. Not to mention brake cleaner, masking tape and all the other consumables you will need building the car.

LIST of important things that are missing in the factory setup:


main switch, cold air intake box, stalks, satnav, fresh air intake, external oil filters, fuel catch tank, feeder pump for the catch tank, pevkoil valves,

pilbeam_mp62 said:
I think the reason you used 12 tubes of sealant is that you seemed unable to use contact adhesive on your rear canopy heat insulation mat - a problem that no other builder seeemd to have smile
I am sure I am quite a bit abler than you because I did not need the factory to complete my car and if you look at my build site you probably can learn something instead of telling me that BS with the heat shield attachement.
And just for the record I installed an alien engine in the car with an alien ECU and my choice of lambda controllers my own designed fuel system and from what I hear it does work quite well compared to the known troublefree turnkey engine suppliers.

pilbeam_mp62 said:
I have spent a lot of time and effort on this list - what nobody needs is some casual reply which is completely unsubstantiated.
My reply was not casual and I had not intention to stump on your feet, however it is an incomplete list and I am pretty sure that all my small bits apart
from what you have stated above easily have been 5000 EUROs.

AND MOST IMPORTANT


MY CAR HAS NO CORVETTE COVERS !


Edited by spatz on Tuesday 27th October 12:20

metung

26 posts

204 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
ouch my ears

UltimaCH

3,048 posts

117 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
eek mad cow disease? Spatz, you are hard. I wonder if the tools you need to build the car should be included in the build costs. You could have a good tool kit with some extra accesories which will cost you a not too great amount which you could also use later (or have before) if you are in DIY. You could also have a full out work shop with CNC driven machinery, but then probably could could start your own car building company. You could also count in the build the use of your garage and workshop: electricity, mortgage costs, insurance, etc. You could also figure in the cost of the hours spent on the build ansd also those trying to find a solution to things.
I think Kelvin's list is a good example of how much a build costs, so that potential buyers have a good "ballpark" figure, nothing more.

brem

187 posts

212 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
@pilbeam_mp62,

I think the list is very good and it would be more or less the setup of my GTR.

Why do you need a "Dry sump kit for LS7 engine £917" as on the AS page all LS7 engines
are listed as dry sumped?

And what was the reason to choose the "standart" LS7 when you can get the 650HP for only $1000.-more?

Thanks and regards

Peter

spatz

1,783 posts

114 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
not at all, just wanted to point out that the shopping list for the parts mentioned above is merely complete and I am pretty sure that others will agree, so the additional cost as mentioned correctly varying a lot depending how well you are equipped. My impression is and was that there are tools necessary that cannot be found in a regular garage and only as an example the build trolley alone cost me 350 EUROS in material and a motor crane can easily be the same amount (used).
Read my first post I said it is a good summary but merely complete.


pilbeam_mp62

Original Poster:

952 posts

129 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
brem said:
@pilbeam_mp62,

I think the list is very good and it would be more or less the setup of my GTR.

Why do you need a "Dry sump kit for LS7 engine £917" as on the AS page all LS7 engines
are listed as dry sumped?

And what was the reason to choose the "standart" LS7 when you can get the 650HP for only $1000.-more?

Thanks and regards

Peter
Peter,

The engine is described as "dry-sumped" , just meaning it stores it's oil externally.

The dry sump kit from the factory consists of a tank to store the oil, brackets to attach it to the chassis, all the braided hose and fittings, and an oil thermostat - The engine that I have is plenty for my requirements - you have to draw the line somewhere with the budget !!

Regards

YIIHAA

331 posts

180 months

Tuesday 27th October 2009
quotequote all
pilbeam_mp62 said:
I think it is a bit unfair to say that £30k "lacks credibility".
The web page in question says "GTR720 Specification" then says "Price from £30k", still credible?

I think the cheapest GTR build was in a kit car magazine. I think even he managed to spend more than £30k, when his aim was to spend less than £30k. He went so far as cutting his own aluminium panels.

A menu price list could offer four options ranging from 350 crate engine with no wing, Granada brakes etc. up to LS7 with bells and whistles. It would at least give people an idea of what the various specs will cost them. Nothing to say they can't order parts individually and source parts from elsewhere.