On-the-Road cost of an Ultima GTR with LS7 engine - info.
Discussion
I would like to thanks Pilbeam_mp62 for publishing his cost figures 
. It has been very helpful as I am a wanabee Ultima Owner. With the latest prices I have from the Factory for a LS7 you are looking in the 70 to 74k range at today's prices, if you follow a factory self build imo. As soon as you go off piste with items such as the interior and body work then costs can get out of control. If the results are not good then second hand value suffers and time it takes to sell is prolonged. You just have to look at classifieds over the last year to see examples of that.
. It has been very helpful as I am a wanabee Ultima Owner. With the latest prices I have from the Factory for a LS7 you are looking in the 70 to 74k range at today's prices, if you follow a factory self build imo. As soon as you go off piste with items such as the interior and body work then costs can get out of control. If the results are not good then second hand value suffers and time it takes to sell is prolonged. You just have to look at classifieds over the last year to see examples of that. Edited by Ult-Jim on Tuesday 7th August 17:48
Yep. My build was around £62k for a ls7 installation. Probably cheaper because of the engine and gearbox choice and differing options ( pre deciding to change things though!) Only thing to add is the catch can Factory option if you are intending to put it on track. It will lose 3-4oz over the course of the day.
btw the ls7 installation ( or at least mine) passes strict noise test and drive by on track days. The marshalls expected v8s to fail if they haven't got the extra muffler! Well done Gail at AS!
btw the ls7 installation ( or at least mine) passes strict noise test and drive by on track days. The marshalls expected v8s to fail if they haven't got the extra muffler! Well done Gail at AS!
Beware of being swayed towards those nice little extras.
My leather interior (which is quite simple) was over £5k.
Paint (with me doing most of the prep) over £4k by the time I had the front clip done again.
Don't even mention all the SS extras I simply had to have.
I hate to admit it but the total is probably over £70k with the purchase price I paid Robin.
However, money well spent as I have enjoyed the experience.
Paul
My leather interior (which is quite simple) was over £5k.
Paint (with me doing most of the prep) over £4k by the time I had the front clip done again.
Don't even mention all the SS extras I simply had to have.
I hate to admit it but the total is probably over £70k with the purchase price I paid Robin.
However, money well spent as I have enjoyed the experience.
Paul
It's 2 years since I sold my Ultima, but I still like to read this forum and I was interested to see that my "Cost of an LS7 Ultima" thread had been resurrected.
There are some interesting comments there, but the bottom line for any wannabee Ultima owner is to decide between the two main routes to ownership:-
Route (1) - You want a hobby that will take you several hundred hours but at the end of it, will give you an enormous sense of satisfaction for (hopefully) a job well done. I spent a lot of time and care over my "Factory-Spec" build, and in order to ensure that I ended up with a high quality result, there were one or two jobs that I had the factory do for me - They must have thought I had done a good build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fRfBdz0_7Q because they asked me if they could display my car on their stand at Stoneleigh in 2010.
You MUST go into Route (1) with your eyes open... the instant the car is finished and IVA'd, if you choose to sell the car, it is highly unlikely that you will get back the money that you have put into the car - hobbies cost money, and I treated it as a hobby that would cost me money .... and it did !!
Of course, if you decide to keep your Ultima for many years, you will still suffer depreciation, but it will be over a period of time, and may not be as painful..
Route (2)- You want to own an Ultima but you are conscious of the money aspect. In this scenario, you may be better off looking for a car that is being sold by a builder who has maybe let the costs get away from him and needs to sell the car. He will have suffered that first bite of depreciation.
I will give you an opinion about the engine and exhaust as well - I bought the engine (and the wiring loom and ECU) from American Speed, because it was guaranteed to fit into the engine bay and guaranteed to work first time, and guaranteed to pass IVA emmissions - and it did. I bought the exhaust from the factory because it was guaranteed to pass the IVA noise test - and it did.
I have read so many threads on here where people are asking about emissions or noise....of course if you want the grief and the challenge, then go ahead.... but I always say.. "you buy cheap, you buy twice"
There are plenty of "box-shifters" out there who, on the face of it, are selling cheaper - but they are not selling the complete package so you are not comparing like-with-like. There may be an opportunity for someone to replicate, here in the UK, what American Speed are doing, and supply a package for the Utima that is complete, and guaranteed to fit and work.... I said this on here a couple of years ago, and to my knowledge no-one is doing it...yet.
I have no connection with anyone mentioned in this thread - it's all just my opinion.
Best of luck to all prospective builders/owners.
Regards
There are some interesting comments there, but the bottom line for any wannabee Ultima owner is to decide between the two main routes to ownership:-
Route (1) - You want a hobby that will take you several hundred hours but at the end of it, will give you an enormous sense of satisfaction for (hopefully) a job well done. I spent a lot of time and care over my "Factory-Spec" build, and in order to ensure that I ended up with a high quality result, there were one or two jobs that I had the factory do for me - They must have thought I had done a good build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fRfBdz0_7Q because they asked me if they could display my car on their stand at Stoneleigh in 2010.
You MUST go into Route (1) with your eyes open... the instant the car is finished and IVA'd, if you choose to sell the car, it is highly unlikely that you will get back the money that you have put into the car - hobbies cost money, and I treated it as a hobby that would cost me money .... and it did !!
Of course, if you decide to keep your Ultima for many years, you will still suffer depreciation, but it will be over a period of time, and may not be as painful..
Route (2)- You want to own an Ultima but you are conscious of the money aspect. In this scenario, you may be better off looking for a car that is being sold by a builder who has maybe let the costs get away from him and needs to sell the car. He will have suffered that first bite of depreciation.
I will give you an opinion about the engine and exhaust as well - I bought the engine (and the wiring loom and ECU) from American Speed, because it was guaranteed to fit into the engine bay and guaranteed to work first time, and guaranteed to pass IVA emmissions - and it did. I bought the exhaust from the factory because it was guaranteed to pass the IVA noise test - and it did.
I have read so many threads on here where people are asking about emissions or noise....of course if you want the grief and the challenge, then go ahead.... but I always say.. "you buy cheap, you buy twice"
There are plenty of "box-shifters" out there who, on the face of it, are selling cheaper - but they are not selling the complete package so you are not comparing like-with-like. There may be an opportunity for someone to replicate, here in the UK, what American Speed are doing, and supply a package for the Utima that is complete, and guaranteed to fit and work.... I said this on here a couple of years ago, and to my knowledge no-one is doing it...yet.
I have no connection with anyone mentioned in this thread - it's all just my opinion.
Best of luck to all prospective builders/owners.
Regards
Kevin
I understand your points above.
However, (you were expecting a "However", weren't you!) part of the enjoyment is doing it different, for some of us. The challenge of creating an Ultima that is unique to you gives a great deal of pleasure.
No matter how you justify the purchase of an Ultima is is still a "hobby" even if factory built, just more so if you build and modify it yourself.
There is no doubt that if you intend to build and sell,it is essential to go the Factory standard route. You will loose money, just less.
I do struggle to understand why you would want to sell something you have built with your own sweat and tears. It is like selling a child.
The money I have spent on the Ultima is still a fraction of what it cost me to get each of my children to the point where they can fund themselves. Come to think of it I am still funding 1.5 of the 3 of them!!!!!!!!
Paul
I understand your points above.
However, (you were expecting a "However", weren't you!) part of the enjoyment is doing it different, for some of us. The challenge of creating an Ultima that is unique to you gives a great deal of pleasure.
No matter how you justify the purchase of an Ultima is is still a "hobby" even if factory built, just more so if you build and modify it yourself.
There is no doubt that if you intend to build and sell,it is essential to go the Factory standard route. You will loose money, just less.
I do struggle to understand why you would want to sell something you have built with your own sweat and tears. It is like selling a child.
The money I have spent on the Ultima is still a fraction of what it cost me to get each of my children to the point where they can fund themselves. Come to think of it I am still funding 1.5 of the 3 of them!!!!!!!!
Paul
Standard (ish!) build for me. It keeps the costs and weight down. The inside also looks clean and simple especially with stac instrument set!
Driving the car gives me the greatest pleasure - not sure about the build bit. Some people like the building challenge and then sell shortly after for the next challenge. Two of my friends did exactly that. The main thing is getting pleasure from your Ultima however you boat floats. Apart from buying second hand, a good part build can prove cheaper as well and still allow you to spend lots ... I mean individualise..
Good luck to all prospective builders. IMHO you buying into the best track car for the money
Driving the car gives me the greatest pleasure - not sure about the build bit. Some people like the building challenge and then sell shortly after for the next challenge. Two of my friends did exactly that. The main thing is getting pleasure from your Ultima however you boat floats. Apart from buying second hand, a good part build can prove cheaper as well and still allow you to spend lots ... I mean individualise..
Good luck to all prospective builders. IMHO you buying into the best track car for the money
Hi all , been reading this very interesting thread , and the over all vibe im getting is one of people sugesting an Ultima can or should be built cheap / cheaper , surely this is not what the car is about , if your tempted by any extras go for it , the ultima is a top car and i dont think it should be built down to a price ," the price is long forgotten when the quality is still being appreciated " , any prospective owner / builder should know its an expensive car ( a bloody fast exciting expesive car ) and if ya cant stand the heat etc etc , remember your only here once
dal2litrefrogeye said:
Hi all , been reading this very interesting thread , and the over all vibe im getting is one of people sugesting an Ultima can or should be built cheap / cheaper , surely this is not what the car is about , if your tempted by any extras go for it , the ultima is a top car and i dont think it should be built down to a price ," the price is long forgotten when the quality is still being appreciated " , any prospective owner / builder should know its an expensive car ( a bloody fast exciting expesive car ) and if ya cant stand the heat etc etc , remember your only here once
Totally agree that's why I am saving and begging, pay peanuts get a monkey. Only the best will do for my motor. tending towards a factory 720 spec, proven over and over agai ! Then going AWOL with my own ideas at my own stupid expense. Edited by Ult-Jim on Friday 10th August 08:13
Ult-Jim said:
Totally agree that's why I am saving and begging, pay peanuts get a monkey. Only the best will do for my motor. tending towards a factory 720 spec, proven over and over agai ! Then going AWOL with my own ideas at my own stupid expense.
£62k to £67k plus inflation over 3ish years will get you a very high spec car ( intrax shocks, ap racing brakes, high bhp ls7 or sbc, etc). The quality of the standard build is also high.Edited by Ult-Jim on Friday 10th August 08:13
From previous posts, you easily can spend 5k on the interior or thousands going off recommended build components. It makes it individual but the car is pretty special with the standard interior and recommended components. Autobionics (www.autobionics.co.uk) give an alternative range of components that are reasonably priced if you want to go this way...
... Also used Justin at http://www.gleamingkleen.co.uk/ (now exclusive Car care) to detail car which made the biggest difference to the look of the car!
tjlees said:
£62k to £67k plus inflation over 3ish years will get you a very high spec car
62k at 3% inflation average for 3 years = 67.7k today 67k at 3% inflation average for 3 years = 73.2k today
Not far out from the 70 to 74k I quoted above, especially if you add tools and a few mishaps, mistakes, miscellaneous expenses and increased taxes along the way. Thanks tjlees for your figures. Controlling and understanding the costs involved in my field of work is vital, so naturally I am doing the same for my own projects in life
Have ready many positive reviews and photos shown on the Pistonhead detailing forum about Gleamingkleen.
Ult-Jim said:
62k at 3% inflation average for 3 years = 67.7k today
67k at 3% inflation average for 3 years = 73.2k today
Not far out from the 70 to 74k I quoted above, especially if you add tools and a few mishaps, mistakes, miscellaneous expenses and increased taxes along the way. Thanks tjlees for your figures. Controlling and understanding the costs involved in my field of work is vital, so naturally I am doing the same for my own projects in life
Have ready many positive reviews and photos shown on the Pistonhead detailing forum about Gleamingkleen.
Here is mine after Justin from Gleaming kleen had finished with it ....67k at 3% inflation average for 3 years = 73.2k today
Not far out from the 70 to 74k I quoted above, especially if you add tools and a few mishaps, mistakes, miscellaneous expenses and increased taxes along the way. Thanks tjlees for your figures. Controlling and understanding the costs involved in my field of work is vital, so naturally I am doing the same for my own projects in life
Have ready many positive reviews and photos shown on the Pistonhead detailing forum about Gleamingkleen.
.. best upgrade option ever
... and just to show it does make a difference
Apologies for the thread resurrection, but this seems to be the most appropriate place to post.
I've reached that certain age where less financial commitments would allow me to take on a big project like this. I've done a few from a bike-engine Sylva Striker to restoring an old Landy and would expect to do all the work myself as hobby.
The minor updates to the Evolution, such as the new wheels, LED lighting and gearshift mechanism look great and the prospect of a good finish from gelcoat alone is interesting.
However I can't square the claim on the website that "You can build your own new Ultima EVO supercar for around the same ballpark price as a mundane new BMW M2" (from £46K) with the breakdown of costs posted at the top of this thread. None of the items listed appear unnecessary or excessive and unless the Evo suddenly became much less expensive than the GTR then it seems to be setting false expectations. Adjusting for the LS3 engine doesn't get down to the same ballpark price. I am quite familiar with the reality that all projects cost more and take more time than you first expect, because he have no notion of all the bits you will end up needing but isn't this well known by Ultima? There must be a list of all essential, bog-standard parts that can be ordered plus options? Caterham provide an exhaustive price and specification list on their website should I be considering one of those.
Everything I have done so far has ended up being worth at least as much as it cost me (ignoring my time). I'd expect it to be worth close to the sum of its parts if it really was sub £50K and I did a half-decent job of it, allowing for some mark-up of the parts from the factory. Whether it represents good value compared to another supercar is not particularly relevant; probably more useful to compare with other high-end kits.
I guess that I am not the first or the last to pop up on here with the notion of building an Ultima to a budget. I've seen reference to it on other posts. Maybe I should visit the factory, but it would seem a waste of my time and theirs if they immediately fess up and say that I actually need at least £60K (1/3 more) if I buy everything, new from them and don't want to spoil it by compromising on the essential mechanical bits.
I've reached that certain age where less financial commitments would allow me to take on a big project like this. I've done a few from a bike-engine Sylva Striker to restoring an old Landy and would expect to do all the work myself as hobby.
The minor updates to the Evolution, such as the new wheels, LED lighting and gearshift mechanism look great and the prospect of a good finish from gelcoat alone is interesting.
However I can't square the claim on the website that "You can build your own new Ultima EVO supercar for around the same ballpark price as a mundane new BMW M2" (from £46K) with the breakdown of costs posted at the top of this thread. None of the items listed appear unnecessary or excessive and unless the Evo suddenly became much less expensive than the GTR then it seems to be setting false expectations. Adjusting for the LS3 engine doesn't get down to the same ballpark price. I am quite familiar with the reality that all projects cost more and take more time than you first expect, because he have no notion of all the bits you will end up needing but isn't this well known by Ultima? There must be a list of all essential, bog-standard parts that can be ordered plus options? Caterham provide an exhaustive price and specification list on their website should I be considering one of those.
Everything I have done so far has ended up being worth at least as much as it cost me (ignoring my time). I'd expect it to be worth close to the sum of its parts if it really was sub £50K and I did a half-decent job of it, allowing for some mark-up of the parts from the factory. Whether it represents good value compared to another supercar is not particularly relevant; probably more useful to compare with other high-end kits.
I guess that I am not the first or the last to pop up on here with the notion of building an Ultima to a budget. I've seen reference to it on other posts. Maybe I should visit the factory, but it would seem a waste of my time and theirs if they immediately fess up and say that I actually need at least £60K (1/3 more) if I buy everything, new from them and don't want to spoil it by compromising on the essential mechanical bits.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 8th November 13:16
Most would agree that sticking rigidily to a factory spec you will find the cost to be between £70 and £80k. Deviate from that and the cost will normally go up. Having said that you will have a car that is like nothing else for that money, it’s still really good value. I don’t know any owner who thinks that it was not money well spent. See Ultima Owners on Facebook as well.
Edited by Racingroj on Wednesday 8th November 15:38
milesr3 said:
£70K to £80K for a factory spec LS3? Blimey that's a whole ballpark away from a ballpark M2 price.
Somehow I have a figure of 95k-100k in my head for a factory built one with the biggest engine - not so relevant for you, but then 70-80k for a self-built one with cheaper engine sounds a tad pricey ... I might be misremembering though as I asked in Aprilmilesr3 said:
£70K to £80K for a factory spec LS3? Blimey that's a whole ballpark away from a ballpark M2 price.
If you are worried about the resale value of an Ultima, that you have built, I would suggest you are building for the wrong reason.The Factory will build you an Ultima but they know exactly how to do it quickly and right first time. Their margin is built into the kit price so they have a margin/profit built in.
Builders usually do so to obtain a car with great performance/£ spent. They do it "because they can" and want to.
It is a hobby and most hobbies cost. If you build the cheapest car you can, then expect to struggle to sell it!
I think £75k is not far out for the cost of building a good specification car.
It may make £65K if you sell as new.
I know some of my friends spend about £10k a year game shooting. Just another enjoyable hobby.......
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