Higher end hi fi
Discussion
With the shift to digital and everyone using the same sonos setups hi fi is becoming a white goods product for many households.
We have our fair share of sonos and it produces adequate sound though we do get the occasional drop in the network.
I recently upgraded the main hi fi amp and had time to lusten to music again..the difference between sonos and a good hi fi is enormous it's not at all something you have to be an audiophile to appreciate and makes music far more emotive. This is how more people used to enjoy music.
Makes me think how we were going down the white goods hifi and streamer setup what chance do our kids have.
We have our fair share of sonos and it produces adequate sound though we do get the occasional drop in the network.
I recently upgraded the main hi fi amp and had time to lusten to music again..the difference between sonos and a good hi fi is enormous it's not at all something you have to be an audiophile to appreciate and makes music far more emotive. This is how more people used to enjoy music.
Makes me think how we were going down the white goods hifi and streamer setup what chance do our kids have.
I agree completely.
The higher end streamers have a far better DAC and Amp stages which give a massive step up in quality.
Last year we did a project with sonos, chord mojo DAC, Naim Amp and Golden Ear Triton 1 active floor standers. The sound quality and your inclusion in the music was stunning.
So much so I have started to replicate the set up here.
V.
The higher end streamers have a far better DAC and Amp stages which give a massive step up in quality.
Last year we did a project with sonos, chord mojo DAC, Naim Amp and Golden Ear Triton 1 active floor standers. The sound quality and your inclusion in the music was stunning.
So much so I have started to replicate the set up here.
V.
A lot depends on the definition of higher end.
Its certainly not hard to improve on Sonos' sound quality but their gear is easy to use and the apps are good; many are fine with that level of performance. Sonos amps are fine but I think their speakers are average at best. If you you're looking for 'higher end' sound and ease of use I'd use a Connect amp and feed something like this http://www.avihifi.co.uk/products.html#dm10
IMHO Hi-end gear should be capable of full bandwidth ( 15Hz to 20Khz ) reproduction and at realistic volume levels. There are very few commercial systems capable of playing the bottom octave properly or producing 118-120dB levels and fewer still capable of doing it at the same time. The ones that can ( ATC, PMC etc ) are necessarily huge and beyond what most want to pay for their Hi-Fi.
Its certainly not hard to improve on Sonos' sound quality but their gear is easy to use and the apps are good; many are fine with that level of performance. Sonos amps are fine but I think their speakers are average at best. If you you're looking for 'higher end' sound and ease of use I'd use a Connect amp and feed something like this http://www.avihifi.co.uk/products.html#dm10
IMHO Hi-end gear should be capable of full bandwidth ( 15Hz to 20Khz ) reproduction and at realistic volume levels. There are very few commercial systems capable of playing the bottom octave properly or producing 118-120dB levels and fewer still capable of doing it at the same time. The ones that can ( ATC, PMC etc ) are necessarily huge and beyond what most want to pay for their Hi-Fi.
Edited by Crackie on Friday 23 June 06:48
Couple of other things compounding the issue
-People don't sit and listen to music anymore, it's often a background thing, or used in environments where high end hi-fi would be wasted.
-Mainstream music in the last 25 years is generally awful quality, it sounds awful on high end stuff too
I think the second point is the sadder one, both the quality of the music itself and sound mixing means whole generations miss out on good music.
-People don't sit and listen to music anymore, it's often a background thing, or used in environments where high end hi-fi would be wasted.
-Mainstream music in the last 25 years is generally awful quality, it sounds awful on high end stuff too
I think the second point is the sadder one, both the quality of the music itself and sound mixing means whole generations miss out on good music.
I think HiFi is coming back.
Many I know are getting rid of their surround systems and going back to two channel again, and with that their Sonos gear is no longer sounding as good in comparison.
With services like Tidal offering lossless and MQA a decent system is getting more and more worthwhile again.
Also, with a pair of Play 5's now costing a grand, I think you are far better to buy yourself a decent amp and speakers, even buy a Sonos Connect or Bluesound Node with say a Marantz amp and a pair of Quad speakers or similar.
Many I know are getting rid of their surround systems and going back to two channel again, and with that their Sonos gear is no longer sounding as good in comparison.
With services like Tidal offering lossless and MQA a decent system is getting more and more worthwhile again.
Also, with a pair of Play 5's now costing a grand, I think you are far better to buy yourself a decent amp and speakers, even buy a Sonos Connect or Bluesound Node with say a Marantz amp and a pair of Quad speakers or similar.
Crackie said:
A lot depends on the definition of higher end.
Its certainly not hard to improve on Sonos' sound quality but their gear is easy to use and the apps are good; many are fine with that level of performance. Sonos amps are fine but I think their speakers are average at best. If you you're looking for 'higher end' sound and ease of use I'd use a Connect amp and feed something like this http://www.avihifi.co.uk/products.html#dm10
IMHO Hi-end gear should be capable of full bandwidth ( 15Hz to 20Khz ) reproduction and at realistic volume levels. There are very few hi-fi systems capable of playing the bottom octave properly or producing 118-120dB levels and fewer still capable of doing it at the same time. The ones that can ( ATC, PMC etc ) are expensive to engineer......
Agree Sonos amp can be a lot better than the 1 box solutions with some decent speakers. Its certainly not hard to improve on Sonos' sound quality but their gear is easy to use and the apps are good; many are fine with that level of performance. Sonos amps are fine but I think their speakers are average at best. If you you're looking for 'higher end' sound and ease of use I'd use a Connect amp and feed something like this http://www.avihifi.co.uk/products.html#dm10
IMHO Hi-end gear should be capable of full bandwidth ( 15Hz to 20Khz ) reproduction and at realistic volume levels. There are very few hi-fi systems capable of playing the bottom octave properly or producing 118-120dB levels and fewer still capable of doing it at the same time. The ones that can ( ATC, PMC etc ) are expensive to engineer......
Edited by Crackie on Thursday 22 June 23:03
I don't think you need those kind of levels when can you really listen to music at 118b? The system I use is 804D speakers Db1 sub and a NAIM NAP 300 DR power amp, this has good enough dynamic range for me but its the feel of the music that is the standout - you can have a devielet based system which while technical good lacks emotion for me
TheGuru said:
Mainstream music in the last 25 years is generally awful quality, it sounds awful on high end stuff too
I can concur with this.I like listening to modern dance music and buy a lot of the compilation cd's that you see in the supermarket or HMV.
Depending on the quality of the production, some sound better than others and even the same track can sound different between cd's.
Some of them sound very compressed; it's like having the loudness button on all of the time.
I've also been told that a lot of modern pop music is produced to sound better through headphones as that's how most people listen to music these days.
It's ironic that you spend a lot of money on high end kit which then highlights how poor quality some of the cd's are.
dvshannow said:
I recently upgraded the main hi fi amp and had time to lusten to music again..the difference between sonos and a good hi fi is enormous it's not at all something you have to be an audiophile to appreciate and makes music far more emotive. This is how more people used to enjoy music.
So what were you using as a source on the main hifi - still Sonos or separate streamer/CD player?I'm taking it that the general thrust of the thread is that Sonos isn't great if you're using it including the Sonos speakers, and Sonos amp, in which case I'd completely agree? Having listened to the Sonos Play 3 and 5 or whatever they are, both myself and my OH were very underwhelmed.
We have "Sonos" in 4 rooms, but all 4 use only the Sonos Connect, 2 use RCA out and 2 have external DACs.
Kitchen the RCA output goes into an AE 2+1 with a couple of satellite speakers and a small sub. It's ok for the kitchen but not hifi.
One room upstairs has the RCA output into our "old" hifi - 80's pre/monoblock power amps and mid-sized speakers.
Back room has digital out from the Sonos Connect into external Eastern Electric DAC, ATC Stereo Integrated Amp and Spendor Floorstanders.
Front room Sonos Connect digital out to Audiolab MDAC Plus, to Integrated Valve amp, then stand mounted Neat Iotas and Rel Sub.
To me, especially the ones with external DAC, it sounds every bit as good (and I feel actually better) than using an equivalent system with a decent CD player, but with the added bonus of the Sonos functionality. Most of the source material is from FLACs on local NAS, supplemented occasionally with something from Spotify via Sonos if we want to listen to something we don't already have (although quality isn't the same as FLACs). We'll also sit down and listen to vinyl from time to time, which is admittedly a different and enjoyable experience.
Also agree that it's somewhat depressing the quality of recording/production of much music released these days.
Decent HIFi around the house ? You can stream it in Super CD. And it's British !!
https://www.meridian-audio.com/
https://www.meridian-audio.com/
dvshannow said:
Your ears won't last long
Pardon ?I appreciate 118 - 120 is extremely loud but real instruments generate extremely loud SPLs. If the music is performed / recorded loud then the goal should be to reproduce and listen to it accurately.
Edited by Crackie on Saturday 24th June 12:40
robinessex said:
Decent HIFi around the house ? You can stream it in Super CD. And it's British !!
https://www.meridian-audio.com/
That's what I have been using for years. Cracking gear. https://www.meridian-audio.com/
However, Roon is better than their Sooloos.
Also, with Roon you can add £100 endpoints which sound just as good as the Meridian endpoints at £1500.
Whilst I have sonos play speakers around the house for general background audio (usually bbc radio 4/5 live), i ageer about the improvements you can get with a connect and a decent DAC. I run a connect into my arcam amp via a chord 2qute and the improvement over the DAC in the connect is very noticeable.
I'm also very pleased with how my little boy (3.5 years) will happily sit and listen to music and how much he enjoys listening to and helping me play vinyl
I'm also very pleased with how my little boy (3.5 years) will happily sit and listen to music and how much he enjoys listening to and helping me play vinyl
Slight hijack, so apologies but why are used Sonos speakers selling on EBay for nearly the same price you can buy them new?
You can buy play 1 speakers from Richer Sounds for £185 with all the benefits of being brand new yet unknown, used units rattle off EBay throughout the day at only a few pounds under that. I've even seen them closing above.
It seems utter madness or stupidity or am I being stupid and missing something obvious?
You can buy play 1 speakers from Richer Sounds for £185 with all the benefits of being brand new yet unknown, used units rattle off EBay throughout the day at only a few pounds under that. I've even seen them closing above.
It seems utter madness or stupidity or am I being stupid and missing something obvious?
gregs656 said:
Nah it's stupidity. I've had a surprising number of auctions end at over RRP.
It's hard to believe people are that dumb though. Doing something like that is pretty much medically retarded. If you look at Sonos 5 used prices they can be bought for less than a 3 and getting close to 1 used prices but only since the new version of the 5 came out so that seems to suggest a massive 'bling' premium on this stuff?
Last year I changed my surround amp - and while doing so, broke one of the cables which was connected to my Chord Hi-Fi amps. I suddenly had a "I want a simpler setup" moment and took the hi-fi amps out of the picture completely.
I'm debating whether to get the cable repaired or just leave it as it is. The sound quality is unquestionably better if I use my Hi-fi stuff - not just because of the Chord amps, but also because my music player outputs to my QBD76 DAC (I stream my music from FLAC files on a NAS).
But the reality is, in the last year I've started using Amazon music (the full subscription, not just prime) and I find I'm not generally buying CDs. I'm aware that I have several thousand pounds worth of amps which are no longer plugged in, and a DAC I paid a lot of money for which is currently not used - but I'm debating whether I will actually ever make use of them now. I really need to make a decision and either get my Chord cable repaired or put my hi-fi stuff up for sale I guess.
I'm debating whether to get the cable repaired or just leave it as it is. The sound quality is unquestionably better if I use my Hi-fi stuff - not just because of the Chord amps, but also because my music player outputs to my QBD76 DAC (I stream my music from FLAC files on a NAS).
But the reality is, in the last year I've started using Amazon music (the full subscription, not just prime) and I find I'm not generally buying CDs. I'm aware that I have several thousand pounds worth of amps which are no longer plugged in, and a DAC I paid a lot of money for which is currently not used - but I'm debating whether I will actually ever make use of them now. I really need to make a decision and either get my Chord cable repaired or put my hi-fi stuff up for sale I guess.
davek_964 said:
Last year I changed my surround amp - and while doing so, broke one of the cables which was connected to my Chord Hi-Fi amps. I suddenly had a "I want a simpler setup" moment and took the hi-fi amps out of the picture completely.
I'm debating whether to get the cable repaired or just leave it as it is. The sound quality is unquestionably better if I use my Hi-fi stuff - not just because of the Chord amps, but also because my music player outputs to my QBD76 DAC (I stream my music from FLAC files on a NAS).
But the reality is, in the last year I've started using Amazon music (the full subscription, not just prime) and I find I'm not generally buying CDs. I'm aware that I have several thousand pounds worth of amps which are no longer plugged in, and a DAC I paid a lot of money for which is currently not used - but I'm debating whether I will actually ever make use of them now. I really need to make a decision and either get my Chord cable repaired or put my hi-fi stuff up for sale I guess.
What are you playing your downloads from Amazon Music on?I'm debating whether to get the cable repaired or just leave it as it is. The sound quality is unquestionably better if I use my Hi-fi stuff - not just because of the Chord amps, but also because my music player outputs to my QBD76 DAC (I stream my music from FLAC files on a NAS).
But the reality is, in the last year I've started using Amazon music (the full subscription, not just prime) and I find I'm not generally buying CDs. I'm aware that I have several thousand pounds worth of amps which are no longer plugged in, and a DAC I paid a lot of money for which is currently not used - but I'm debating whether I will actually ever make use of them now. I really need to make a decision and either get my Chord cable repaired or put my hi-fi stuff up for sale I guess.
I've just Googled Amazon Music and from what I can see it's MP3 downloads.
Personally, having been brought up to appreciate decent hi-if, I can't stand the poor quality of a heavily compressed MP3 file.
I know what I'd be doing in your shoes, if your used to the quality reproduction of streaming FLAC files through a decent DAC and amps.
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