Hi res audio - newbie questions
Discussion
I'm looking to dip my toe into the world of hi res audio. The reason being that despite having a sizeable cd/vinyl collection I rarely find myself listening to any of it at home and I can't actually remember the last time I bought a cd (still buy the odd vinyl tho). I've come to the conclusion that I should focus on digitising my cd library and create a system based around a central HD repository which I can listen to at home and copy across for portable use.
The thing is I don't really know where to start. I used to have a lot of music on iTunes but lost it all and so effectively starting from scratch. I don't want to be tied to Apple so am open to any and all suggestions and advice.
I would like to be able to store music in one location which can be played on my living room hifi. The storage location should also be able to be easily accessed to be able to copy files over to a portable player.
For the portable side I've pretty much decided on a chord mojo and a pair of hifiman 400i magnaplanar cans. The former as it is so universally revered and the latter because I used to love my grado sr60s many moons ago (reviews seem comparable) and they're only $250 on amazon right now. To begin with I will prob use my iPhone as the transport running the onkyo HD player.
As for the 'central library' I have no idea where to start. Current hifi is standard separates with AirPort Extreme for streaming from the iPhone and my Mac mini is also plumbed into the amp for audio out. The tv audio also runs through the amp. Tv is used as a monitor for the mac but not connected to an aerial. All our viewing is Netflix or DVDs. Hence I'm used to having to boot up hifi and computer to listen or watch. Tbh having the mac running into the hifi was what caused my cd listening to decline as it's mainly Spotify or 6music for me these days.
I like the idea of ditching the current system (decent but bought in my student days on a budget) for something like the new naim uniti but they don't seem to be available yet despite glowing reviews over a year old! I would like to be able to rip from cd and have a really easy to use interface. The Mac mini is 2nd gen and getting slow so could be replaced.
So: priority no1 is sound quality ( I like an open, airy sound like you get from open backed cans ). Priority no2 is an easy to use library which is easily accessed at home and for portable devices.
Budget is open to suggestion. The initial outlay for the mojo and 400is will be about $750 and I could save/spend that each month no issue. I'd like to start with the library and build up from there.
Thoughts?
The thing is I don't really know where to start. I used to have a lot of music on iTunes but lost it all and so effectively starting from scratch. I don't want to be tied to Apple so am open to any and all suggestions and advice.
I would like to be able to store music in one location which can be played on my living room hifi. The storage location should also be able to be easily accessed to be able to copy files over to a portable player.
For the portable side I've pretty much decided on a chord mojo and a pair of hifiman 400i magnaplanar cans. The former as it is so universally revered and the latter because I used to love my grado sr60s many moons ago (reviews seem comparable) and they're only $250 on amazon right now. To begin with I will prob use my iPhone as the transport running the onkyo HD player.
As for the 'central library' I have no idea where to start. Current hifi is standard separates with AirPort Extreme for streaming from the iPhone and my Mac mini is also plumbed into the amp for audio out. The tv audio also runs through the amp. Tv is used as a monitor for the mac but not connected to an aerial. All our viewing is Netflix or DVDs. Hence I'm used to having to boot up hifi and computer to listen or watch. Tbh having the mac running into the hifi was what caused my cd listening to decline as it's mainly Spotify or 6music for me these days.
I like the idea of ditching the current system (decent but bought in my student days on a budget) for something like the new naim uniti but they don't seem to be available yet despite glowing reviews over a year old! I would like to be able to rip from cd and have a really easy to use interface. The Mac mini is 2nd gen and getting slow so could be replaced.
So: priority no1 is sound quality ( I like an open, airy sound like you get from open backed cans ). Priority no2 is an easy to use library which is easily accessed at home and for portable devices.
Budget is open to suggestion. The initial outlay for the mojo and 400is will be about $750 and I could save/spend that each month no issue. I'd like to start with the library and build up from there.
Thoughts?
Edited by shirt on Wednesday 28th June 22:29
Cocktail Audio are worth a look. http://www.cocktailaudio.com/overview_x35.php
I've been using one of their X12s for a few years; easy ripping of CDs & Vinyl, good streamer, versatile digital and analogue pre amps, capable of running multi room, decent on board amp and high quality digital outputs etc.
I've been using one of their X12s for a few years; easy ripping of CDs & Vinyl, good streamer, versatile digital and analogue pre amps, capable of running multi room, decent on board amp and high quality digital outputs etc.
I would like at subscribing to Tidal, lossless and MQA for $19 a month.
You will find so much new music and haven't got to worry about losing all your ripped stuff or ripping it.
Every single person I know who has made the move says they wished they had done it sooner.
I use a Rasberry Pi with a Meridian Explorer 2 headphone DAC for Tidal. I use it with headphones and in another room with a Quad 405 amp and ESL988 electrostatic speakers, and another room with Quad S2 ribbon speakers and a Rel sub. Both sound divine.
I like the Mojo, but not sure about lack of MQA going forward, some of the MQA I have experienced is eerily realistic and very addictive.
You will find so much new music and haven't got to worry about losing all your ripped stuff or ripping it.
Every single person I know who has made the move says they wished they had done it sooner.
I use a Rasberry Pi with a Meridian Explorer 2 headphone DAC for Tidal. I use it with headphones and in another room with a Quad 405 amp and ESL988 electrostatic speakers, and another room with Quad S2 ribbon speakers and a Rel sub. Both sound divine.
I like the Mojo, but not sure about lack of MQA going forward, some of the MQA I have experienced is eerily realistic and very addictive.
Maybe have a look at Archimago's Musings? Lots of good info here: http://archimago.blogspot.co.uk/
I didn't realise the distinction between formats. Ideally I'd like to not be limited to a particular one. I guess I mean uncompressed files in as high a quality as possible. I'm not one to be discussing endless technical details when it comes to music but I'd like to start with the best quality source material.
MQA is interesting from what I read have just read briefly. what you mean by eerily realistic? I googles your meridian dac then ended up looking at the sooloos system and older DSP 3200 speakers. I know things have come on a lot in the last 5 yrs but an older complete meridian system is looking tempting. the cocktail system is also interesting. one thing about high res is that it seems to be new players leading the way so that's one more I hadn't heard of.
just bought the hifiman he-400i cans, $295 delivered which I couldn't say no to. there's a local dealer for the chord mojo so will audition that in person with iphone vs a standalone astell kern ak70 before making a decision on the portable solution.
lots to read about. good thing is that the digital approach seems well designed and less boxes, so an easy one to get past the mrs without her noticing what it costs
MQA is interesting from what I read have just read briefly. what you mean by eerily realistic? I googles your meridian dac then ended up looking at the sooloos system and older DSP 3200 speakers. I know things have come on a lot in the last 5 yrs but an older complete meridian system is looking tempting. the cocktail system is also interesting. one thing about high res is that it seems to be new players leading the way so that's one more I hadn't heard of.
just bought the hifiman he-400i cans, $295 delivered which I couldn't say no to. there's a local dealer for the chord mojo so will audition that in person with iphone vs a standalone astell kern ak70 before making a decision on the portable solution.
lots to read about. good thing is that the digital approach seems well designed and less boxes, so an easy one to get past the mrs without her noticing what it costs
If you have a reliable internet connection, I agree that there's little point in ripping your existing media these days, as there's a good choice of streaming services.
I use 320kbps Spotify through my main HiFi using both a Squeezebox Touch and a Chromecast Audio. The sound quality is very good - I'd pay a bit extra to get lossless if/when Spotify support it, but there's nothing obviously wrong with the 320kbps version.
If you do want to rip your existing collection, I'd recommend using dbpoweramp, and ripping to FLAC format, which is lossless. There are many other ways of doing this though...
With the integrated devices like Cocktail Audio, you have to worry a bit about what happens when the hard disk dies, do you lose all your content ?
I use 320kbps Spotify through my main HiFi using both a Squeezebox Touch and a Chromecast Audio. The sound quality is very good - I'd pay a bit extra to get lossless if/when Spotify support it, but there's nothing obviously wrong with the 320kbps version.
If you do want to rip your existing collection, I'd recommend using dbpoweramp, and ripping to FLAC format, which is lossless. There are many other ways of doing this though...
With the integrated devices like Cocktail Audio, you have to worry a bit about what happens when the hard disk dies, do you lose all your content ?
Edited by outnumbered on Friday 30th June 17:00
outnumbered said:
If you have a reliable internet connection, I agree that there's little point in ripping your existing media these days, as there's a good choice of streaming services.
I use 320kbps Spotify through my main HiFi using both a Squeezebox Touch and a Chromecast Audio. The sound quality is very good - I'd pay a bit extra to get lossless if/when Spotify support it, but there's nothing obviously wrong with the 320kbps version.
I do the same via a Sonos Amp and a pair of quality Tannoy speakers. More than happy with the results.I use 320kbps Spotify through my main HiFi using both a Squeezebox Touch and a Chromecast Audio. The sound quality is very good - I'd pay a bit extra to get lossless if/when Spotify support it, but there's nothing obviously wrong with the 320kbps version.
Spumfry said:
Maybe have a look at Archimago's Musings? Lots of good info here: http://archimago.blogspot.co.uk/
Indeed - his views on MQA in particular are really quite revelealing (which is more than can be said for MQA evidently!).
SACD is still ticking along, but it depends what you're after as not everything gets released on the format.
I have all my SD music on a computer that streams to a Pioneer N50A streamer which has a nice DAC in and sounds quite decent, it's only a budget deck but it serves a purpose, much better than the little Apple Airplay boxes and similar.
I buy a lot of music from Bandcamp which usually has an HD version to download.
Not a fan of streaming services like Spotify and whatnot as there's a lot of ambiguity as to how much money the people who actually made the music gets paid, if it's commercial chart music then they have big marketing companies behind them to ensure thousands of plays but your average indie band is going to struggle, so it depends what you listen to.
I have all my SD music on a computer that streams to a Pioneer N50A streamer which has a nice DAC in and sounds quite decent, it's only a budget deck but it serves a purpose, much better than the little Apple Airplay boxes and similar.
I buy a lot of music from Bandcamp which usually has an HD version to download.
Not a fan of streaming services like Spotify and whatnot as there's a lot of ambiguity as to how much money the people who actually made the music gets paid, if it's commercial chart music then they have big marketing companies behind them to ensure thousands of plays but your average indie band is going to struggle, so it depends what you listen to.
TonyRPH said:
Indeed - his views on MQA in particular are really quite revelealing (which is more than can be said for MQA evidently!)
.
The problem is he is a 'measurer'. .
He measures everything and then decides what is good and what is not.
The problem with that is....is he measuring the right things?
MQA was not about compressing/uncompressing hi res into a small container, it was about removing the timing errors introduced at various stages of digital conversion.
That is what has impressed me the most about 'some' MQA, it is the first time I have found it sounding as good as the best analogue, and I believe that is due to removing those timing errors.
I don't think hi res is all that, why is it that analogue/vinyl with its restricted bandwidth still sounds better most of the time?
Same with speakers, I had been demoing some Focal 1028be with a 40Khz bandwidth with some DSD files vs some Quad Z3 ribbons and some 15 year old Quad 988 Electrostatics (based on a 30 year old ESL63) that start to roll off at 12Khz and are around 15db down at 15Khz, yet it was still the old quads that sounded the most lifelike, again, with the wafer thin driver that can move faster than any cone it is, imho, all about reducing timing errors.
In 30 years time we will probably look back at the measurements we take today and think "What idiots we were".
gizlaroc said:
The problem is he is a 'measurer'.
He measures everything and then decides what is good and what is not.
The problem with that is....is he measuring the right things?
<snip>
He has also auditioned MQA along with measurements.He measures everything and then decides what is good and what is not.
The problem with that is....is he measuring the right things?
<snip>
Additionally - there are other 'audio commentators' out there who have found that MQA has nothing to offer even in pure listening terms.
I strongly suspect it's going to go the same way as SACD / HDCD as they have apparently already made concessions by offering a software decoder, presumably due to lack of hardware uptake.
It certainly doesn't help their cause when the makers reject blind testing of their product.
gizlaroc said:
MQA was not about compressing/uncompressing hi res into a small container, it was about removing the timing errors introduced at various stages of digital conversion.
That is what has impressed me the most about 'some' MQA, it is the first time I have found it sounding as good as the best analogue, and I believe that is due to removing those timing errors.
If timing errors are so important, how does vinyl compare as its timing errors are orders of magnitude greater than digital? Is it due to the errors in digital sounding unpleasant, whereas with vinyl the distortion is considered pleasant (ie "warmth")?That is what has impressed me the most about 'some' MQA, it is the first time I have found it sounding as good as the best analogue, and I believe that is due to removing those timing errors.
Edited by scovette on Sunday 2nd July 17:53
scovette said:
If timing errors are so important, how does vinyl compare as its timing errors are orders of magnitude greater than digital?
No they're not. It is the timing errors in the analogue to digital conversion that it is trying to remove.
You guys need to listen on a decent system and see what you think.
Would I build my system round MQA? No.
Has some of it impressed me? yeah.
I am staying open minded about it.
scovette said:
Oh come on - you can't be serious about the timing errors inherent in vinyl? Unless you have a perfectly-pressed record, and a turntable that plays at exactly 33rpm....
Plays at 33rpm? You talking about speed/pitch?
Have a read of this....
http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/mqa-time-do...
The errors in speed/pitch introduce, as that article calls them, ringing tails, and more gross errors. So what I'm wondering is why vinyl's errors sound pleasant, and digital's sound harsh?
It goes back to what you were saying about those measurements measuring the wrong things - measurements for accuracy are all well and good, but many people don't seem to like accurate.
(Myself included - I heard enough truly accurate systems back when I worked in post-production to have something totally different at home.)
It goes back to what you were saying about those measurements measuring the wrong things - measurements for accuracy are all well and good, but many people don't seem to like accurate.
(Myself included - I heard enough truly accurate systems back when I worked in post-production to have something totally different at home.)
gizlaroc said:
If you read through Archimago's blog, you will find that most of the claims in the above link have been debunked.I just think that we are only just starting to understand what is important in 'digital' and what is not.
I think Bob Stewart has found something very special with MQA, I just think that it might be MQA+ before it is accepted. I think in 2012 when he was working on it, compressed was more important than it is now, when we see *MQA+ which is not compressed I think people will start to really get what it is doing.
I think Bob Stewart has found something very special with MQA, I just think that it might be MQA+ before it is accepted. I think in 2012 when he was working on it, compressed was more important than it is now, when we see *MQA+ which is not compressed I think people will start to really get what it is doing.
- Not sure if we will ever see that, but I think that is what is needed.
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