Building a Cinema
Discussion
Hi Folks,
I am tanking a cellar in order to turn it into a cinema. What is the best set up I should go for within a 12k budget? Ideally want a full on 85" TV screen (not keen on pull down) but then what? Never had one before so trying to figure out what is best.
Also, good companies to go to if anyone has recommendations. I am based in the west midlands, Hereford/Worcs/Shropshire border.
Thanks in advance.
I am tanking a cellar in order to turn it into a cinema. What is the best set up I should go for within a 12k budget? Ideally want a full on 85" TV screen (not keen on pull down) but then what? Never had one before so trying to figure out what is best.
Also, good companies to go to if anyone has recommendations. I am based in the west midlands, Hereford/Worcs/Shropshire border.
Thanks in advance.
That's a very open ended question and impossible to give specifics without knowing more details about the room size / configuration, any existing gear etc.
However, if you have a dedicated room then I would definitely prewire for 7.2.4 if the room configuration allows, even if you don't buy all the speakers and/or amping at this point.
Do you want a projector or a TV screen? Is your £12k budget just for the AV gear or should it cover building works, wiring/labour etc. What sources will you be using? Do you want any kind of control system so you don't have to juggle 5 remotes? Do you have any existing AV gear to reuse? Do you want to buy all new or would you consider second hand for key elements? What kind of speakers do you favour - floorstanders, in-wall, on wall?
So many questions...however with a dedicated room and a £12k budget you should be able to get a really good result.
However, if you have a dedicated room then I would definitely prewire for 7.2.4 if the room configuration allows, even if you don't buy all the speakers and/or amping at this point.
Do you want a projector or a TV screen? Is your £12k budget just for the AV gear or should it cover building works, wiring/labour etc. What sources will you be using? Do you want any kind of control system so you don't have to juggle 5 remotes? Do you have any existing AV gear to reuse? Do you want to buy all new or would you consider second hand for key elements? What kind of speakers do you favour - floorstanders, in-wall, on wall?
So many questions...however with a dedicated room and a £12k budget you should be able to get a really good result.
Agreed, with a 12k budget and all new kit you should be able to get a pseudo 4K projector and suitable screen, Dolby Atmos Processor and 5.1.2 or 5.2.2 Speaker package and have someone install it all for you.
You would be able to step that up further if you went for 2nd Kit from the likes of AVForums and / or did it yourself.
HTH
V.
You would be able to step that up further if you went for 2nd Kit from the likes of AVForums and / or did it yourself.
HTH
V.
I'd be looking at a projector and a screen bigger than 100" (assuming the room is big enough). Most people need a screen this big to feel the big screen experience. If 85" is the maximum that will fit then I'd go for a 75" TV instead.
AVForums might be good for inspiration and looking for second hand kit but ignore the "professionals" on there. You wont get anything like impartial advice.
Why not do some research and planning and post up here? There are a few of us who do this kind of thing for a living.
AVForums might be good for inspiration and looking for second hand kit but ignore the "professionals" on there. You wont get anything like impartial advice.
Why not do some research and planning and post up here? There are a few of us who do this kind of thing for a living.
Tom8 said:
Hi Folks,
I am tanking a cellar in order to turn it into a cinema. What is the best set up I should go for within a 12k budget? Ideally want a full on 85" TV screen (not keen on pull down) but then what? Never had one before so trying to figure out what is best.
Also, good companies to go to if anyone has recommendations. I am based in the west midlands, Hereford/Worcs/Shropshire border.
Thanks in advance.
Blip me a PM I may be able to put you in touch with someone you can discuss this with. I am tanking a cellar in order to turn it into a cinema. What is the best set up I should go for within a 12k budget? Ideally want a full on 85" TV screen (not keen on pull down) but then what? Never had one before so trying to figure out what is best.
Also, good companies to go to if anyone has recommendations. I am based in the west midlands, Hereford/Worcs/Shropshire border.
Thanks in advance.
He is well know in the industry and well regarded. He has been the technical director at Oppo for the last few years but as Oppo feel the hardware market is no longer viable he will be leaving shortly and is thinking about going back into installs etc.
It would be well worth chatting with him as I saw the cinema he just did for someone else and to say it looked and sounded stunning is an understatement.
Thanks for responses.
Cellar is 17 ft by 14 ft. It is arched vaulted brick ceiling with maximum ceiling height in the middle of 6ft.
If you add tanking you loose a few mils in each direction. For the question of cost this is about 3k to tank but contractor advises buying my own hardboard for flooring and plaster skimming. SO say 5k for this size of cellar. By lining it you can then embed speakers in the walls.
Screen I have looked at projectors but do they give the right quality? Also would need a short throw as ceiling is too low to mount one and not sure of the quality.
12k budget is purely for the AV gear, building works we have covered.
Thanks again.
Cellar is 17 ft by 14 ft. It is arched vaulted brick ceiling with maximum ceiling height in the middle of 6ft.
If you add tanking you loose a few mils in each direction. For the question of cost this is about 3k to tank but contractor advises buying my own hardboard for flooring and plaster skimming. SO say 5k for this size of cellar. By lining it you can then embed speakers in the walls.
Screen I have looked at projectors but do they give the right quality? Also would need a short throw as ceiling is too low to mount one and not sure of the quality.
12k budget is purely for the AV gear, building works we have covered.
Thanks again.
Tom8 said:
Thanks for responses.
Cellar is 17 ft by 14 ft. It is arched vaulted brick ceiling with maximum ceiling height in the middle of 6ft.
If you add tanking you loose a few mils in each direction. For the question of cost this is about 3k to tank but contractor advises buying my own hardboard for flooring and plaster skimming. SO say 5k for this size of cellar. By lining it you can then embed speakers in the walls.
Screen I have looked at projectors but do they give the right quality? Also would need a short throw as ceiling is too low to mount one and not sure of the quality.
12k budget is purely for the AV gear, building works we have covered.
Thanks again.
OK, you are going to get a great system with that room and that budget. Disclosure: I'm just a keen hobbyist who is now putting together my fourth room, so I've been around the loop a few times. My current project (detailed on AV forums under "Tricky Basement Installation") is very similar: basement room, tanked out, 5.5m x 4m before tanking.Cellar is 17 ft by 14 ft. It is arched vaulted brick ceiling with maximum ceiling height in the middle of 6ft.
If you add tanking you loose a few mils in each direction. For the question of cost this is about 3k to tank but contractor advises buying my own hardboard for flooring and plaster skimming. SO say 5k for this size of cellar. By lining it you can then embed speakers in the walls.
Screen I have looked at projectors but do they give the right quality? Also would need a short throw as ceiling is too low to mount one and not sure of the quality.
12k budget is purely for the AV gear, building works we have covered.
Thanks again.
For the AV gear you will need to split your budget between:
- display device (TV / projector + screen)
- AV receiver
- amping
- speakers
- sources
I am assuming you are doing the prewire as part of the tanking exercise, because that way it will be negligible.
Firstly, if you are going to have a dedicated room, get a projector if you can. It is much more of a cinematic experience, and IMO they do a better job of upscaling lower definition sources - but we'll get back to that. You can also have a physical screen which has cinematic proportions e.g. 2.35:1 rather than the usual widescreen 16:9. The higher end projectors let you flip between the lens so that the image fills the screen depending on the source aspect ratio. In your room you could easily have a 3m wide screen, possibly even wider though it would depend on the throw of your projector. You can get mounts which hold the projector tight up against the ceiling if necessary - just how low are your ceilings?
In terms of image quality - don't worry about it, a good projector will blow your socks off. For a projector you also need to budget for a screen, having speakers positioned behind the screen can give a really good experience but then you need an acoustically transparent screen and the good ones cost a lot - probably taking too much of your budget, so you might want to consider the front 3 (LCR) around the screen rather than behind.
Speakers. This area will exercise you the most, because there are so many options at such a huge number of prices. First thing is to decide on your layout - given the room size, definitely prewire for 7.1.4 or 7.2.4 in an Atmos configuration as the other object-based formats don't seem to be getting as much traction. You don't need to go for the full range at the moment, but to be honest I would. You don't need to spend a huge chunk of your budget on the surround options. You'll need to throw some budget at the front 3 LCR and allow for a subwoofer. Next you'll need to decide on the speaker format - freestanding, in-wall or on-wall. With your tanking and stud partitions you might want to consider in-walls for the surrounds as they make for a very tidy look to the room. If choosing in-walls for the fronts you'll probably want something with a backbox and a bit of depth for the best results - it's very common to build a fake stud wall to hold them.
Amping. The only issue with installing 7.x.4 is that only a few integrated AV receiver/amps actually have enough amplifier circuits on-board to drive all 11 channels. Denon do one at around £1700. You may prefer to go with an amp that has fewer on-board channels but has pre-outs for a secondary power amp - you can get good results this way for less money. The other aspect to consider with your receiver is the room equalisation - Audyssey is fairly basic by comparison with most other formats. Dirac and Anthem's own EQ are the best and a well calibrated system can make a dramatic difference to how the room sounds.
Sources. This is where it gets a bit contentious - 4K or not 4K? Some say you need a true 4K projector now, but they are thin on the ground. A lot more projectors do pseudo-4K by shifting the image by half a pixel for the extra information that the native panel can't project. In reality they come very close to apparent 4K but they can also sometimes do a better job of displaying HD and DVD sources. Remember that a true 4K projector will be guessing at 15 out of 16 pixels it displays from a DVD...
Personally, I have a large backlog of DVD material, a growing collection of HD and no UHD sources. Some of the "4K" streaming sources might be 4K in resolution but not 4K in quality due to bandwidth limitations. I rip all my discs to uncompressed MKV format and playback via Kodi, and it's only just become possible to rip UHD - topped with the fact that UHD discs are typically 50% more expensive than HD *and* sometimes weren't even filmed in 4K (and are therefore being upscaled to 4K by the studio) and I wouldn't get much value from a 4K projector, so I went for the best HD projector I could afford.
Finally - consider second hand for some key components. Projectors and power amps are particular areas for this - someone might be offloading their old projector to go 4K and you could get a bargain. Multi-channel power amps to drive surround channels are also a good option for relative buttons.
As a last thought you should consider some kind of control system so you're not juggling 4 remote controls to turn on the projector, switch amp to source, control source(s), dim the lights etc...they can give the room much more of a WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor).
Of your £12k budget, I would allocate it somewhere around this:
£5000 projector & screen (e.g. £4000 JVC DLC-X5900 (HD) or £5500 Sony VPL-VW260ES (4K))
£2500 receiver + amping for 11 channels (e.g. Arcam AVR390 + ebay 4-channel power amp, or Marantz SR8012)
£2000 LCR speakers (e.g. XTZ Cinema series M6)
£1500 surround (2), rear (2) and height (4) speakers (brand may depend on install in-wall vs on-wall)
£500 subwoofer (e.g. XTZ 10.17)
£500 control system (e.g. RTI or Control4)
£500 ancilliaries (projector mount, cables etc).
But many, many other options exist and most would give very good results. Just remember that the smaller your LCR speakers, the harder your sub needs to work.
Wow, what a response. Thank you. Some very interesting thoughts and ideas in there. Yes we are wiring up around the tanking. Height is an issue as the top is about 6 ft 2 now so with the tank 6 ft max. I will have a read of your other project too but will look into what you have suggested.
Thanks again
PhilboSE said:
OK, you are going to get a great system with that room and that budget. Disclosure: I'm just a keen hobbyist who is now putting together my fourth room, so I've been around the loop a few times. My current project (detailed on AV forums under "Tricky Basement Installation") is very similar: basement room, tanked out, 5.5m x 4m before tanking.
For the AV gear you will need to split your budget between:
- display device (TV / projector + screen)
- AV receiver
- amping
- speakers
- sources
I am assuming you are doing the prewire as part of the tanking exercise, because that way it will be negligible.
Firstly, if you are going to have a dedicated room, get a projector if you can. It is much more of a cinematic experience, and IMO they do a better job of upscaling lower definition sources - but we'll get back to that. You can also have a physical screen which has cinematic proportions e.g. 2.35:1 rather than the usual widescreen 16:9. The higher end projectors let you flip between the lens so that the image fills the screen depending on the source aspect ratio. In your room you could easily have a 3m wide screen, possibly even wider though it would depend on the throw of your projector. You can get mounts which hold the projector tight up against the ceiling if necessary - just how low are your ceilings?
In terms of image quality - don't worry about it, a good projector will blow your socks off. For a projector you also need to budget for a screen, having speakers positioned behind the screen can give a really good experience but then you need an acoustically transparent screen and the good ones cost a lot - probably taking too much of your budget, so you might want to consider the front 3 (LCR) around the screen rather than behind.
Speakers. This area will exercise you the most, because there are so many options at such a huge number of prices. First thing is to decide on your layout - given the room size, definitely prewire for 7.1.4 or 7.2.4 in an Atmos configuration as the other object-based formats don't seem to be getting as much traction. You don't need to go for the full range at the moment, but to be honest I would. You don't need to spend a huge chunk of your budget on the surround options. You'll need to throw some budget at the front 3 LCR and allow for a subwoofer. Next you'll need to decide on the speaker format - freestanding, in-wall or on-wall. With your tanking and stud partitions you might want to consider in-walls for the surrounds as they make for a very tidy look to the room. If choosing in-walls for the fronts you'll probably want something with a backbox and a bit of depth for the best results - it's very common to build a fake stud wall to hold them.
Amping. The only issue with installing 7.x.4 is that only a few integrated AV receiver/amps actually have enough amplifier circuits on-board to drive all 11 channels. Denon do one at around £1700. You may prefer to go with an amp that has fewer on-board channels but has pre-outs for a secondary power amp - you can get good results this way for less money. The other aspect to consider with your receiver is the room equalisation - Audyssey is fairly basic by comparison with most other formats. Dirac and Anthem's own EQ are the best and a well calibrated system can make a dramatic difference to how the room sounds.
Sources. This is where it gets a bit contentious - 4K or not 4K? Some say you need a true 4K projector now, but they are thin on the ground. A lot more projectors do pseudo-4K by shifting the image by half a pixel for the extra information that the native panel can't project. In reality they come very close to apparent 4K but they can also sometimes do a better job of displaying HD and DVD sources. Remember that a true 4K projector will be guessing at 15 out of 16 pixels it displays from a DVD...
Personally, I have a large backlog of DVD material, a growing collection of HD and no UHD sources. Some of the "4K" streaming sources might be 4K in resolution but not 4K in quality due to bandwidth limitations. I rip all my discs to uncompressed MKV format and playback via Kodi, and it's only just become possible to rip UHD - topped with the fact that UHD discs are typically 50% more expensive than HD *and* sometimes weren't even filmed in 4K (and are therefore being upscaled to 4K by the studio) and I wouldn't get much value from a 4K projector, so I went for the best HD projector I could afford.
Finally - consider second hand for some key components. Projectors and power amps are particular areas for this - someone might be offloading their old projector to go 4K and you could get a bargain. Multi-channel power amps to drive surround channels are also a good option for relative buttons.
As a last thought you should consider some kind of control system so you're not juggling 4 remote controls to turn on the projector, switch amp to source, control source(s), dim the lights etc...they can give the room much more of a WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor).
Of your £12k budget, I would allocate it somewhere around this:
£5000 projector & screen (e.g. £4000 JVC DLC-X5900 (HD) or £5500 Sony VPL-VW260ES (4K))
£2500 receiver + amping for 11 channels (e.g. Arcam AVR390 + ebay 4-channel power amp, or Marantz SR8012)
£2000 LCR speakers (e.g. XTZ Cinema series M6)
£1500 surround (2), rear (2) and height (4) speakers (brand may depend on install in-wall vs on-wall)
£500 subwoofer (e.g. XTZ 10.17)
£500 control system (e.g. RTI or Control4)
£500 ancilliaries (projector mount, cables etc).
But many, many other options exist and most would give very good results. Just remember that the smaller your LCR speakers, the harder your sub needs to work.
For the AV gear you will need to split your budget between:
- display device (TV / projector + screen)
- AV receiver
- amping
- speakers
- sources
I am assuming you are doing the prewire as part of the tanking exercise, because that way it will be negligible.
Firstly, if you are going to have a dedicated room, get a projector if you can. It is much more of a cinematic experience, and IMO they do a better job of upscaling lower definition sources - but we'll get back to that. You can also have a physical screen which has cinematic proportions e.g. 2.35:1 rather than the usual widescreen 16:9. The higher end projectors let you flip between the lens so that the image fills the screen depending on the source aspect ratio. In your room you could easily have a 3m wide screen, possibly even wider though it would depend on the throw of your projector. You can get mounts which hold the projector tight up against the ceiling if necessary - just how low are your ceilings?
In terms of image quality - don't worry about it, a good projector will blow your socks off. For a projector you also need to budget for a screen, having speakers positioned behind the screen can give a really good experience but then you need an acoustically transparent screen and the good ones cost a lot - probably taking too much of your budget, so you might want to consider the front 3 (LCR) around the screen rather than behind.
Speakers. This area will exercise you the most, because there are so many options at such a huge number of prices. First thing is to decide on your layout - given the room size, definitely prewire for 7.1.4 or 7.2.4 in an Atmos configuration as the other object-based formats don't seem to be getting as much traction. You don't need to go for the full range at the moment, but to be honest I would. You don't need to spend a huge chunk of your budget on the surround options. You'll need to throw some budget at the front 3 LCR and allow for a subwoofer. Next you'll need to decide on the speaker format - freestanding, in-wall or on-wall. With your tanking and stud partitions you might want to consider in-walls for the surrounds as they make for a very tidy look to the room. If choosing in-walls for the fronts you'll probably want something with a backbox and a bit of depth for the best results - it's very common to build a fake stud wall to hold them.
Amping. The only issue with installing 7.x.4 is that only a few integrated AV receiver/amps actually have enough amplifier circuits on-board to drive all 11 channels. Denon do one at around £1700. You may prefer to go with an amp that has fewer on-board channels but has pre-outs for a secondary power amp - you can get good results this way for less money. The other aspect to consider with your receiver is the room equalisation - Audyssey is fairly basic by comparison with most other formats. Dirac and Anthem's own EQ are the best and a well calibrated system can make a dramatic difference to how the room sounds.
Sources. This is where it gets a bit contentious - 4K or not 4K? Some say you need a true 4K projector now, but they are thin on the ground. A lot more projectors do pseudo-4K by shifting the image by half a pixel for the extra information that the native panel can't project. In reality they come very close to apparent 4K but they can also sometimes do a better job of displaying HD and DVD sources. Remember that a true 4K projector will be guessing at 15 out of 16 pixels it displays from a DVD...
Personally, I have a large backlog of DVD material, a growing collection of HD and no UHD sources. Some of the "4K" streaming sources might be 4K in resolution but not 4K in quality due to bandwidth limitations. I rip all my discs to uncompressed MKV format and playback via Kodi, and it's only just become possible to rip UHD - topped with the fact that UHD discs are typically 50% more expensive than HD *and* sometimes weren't even filmed in 4K (and are therefore being upscaled to 4K by the studio) and I wouldn't get much value from a 4K projector, so I went for the best HD projector I could afford.
Finally - consider second hand for some key components. Projectors and power amps are particular areas for this - someone might be offloading their old projector to go 4K and you could get a bargain. Multi-channel power amps to drive surround channels are also a good option for relative buttons.
As a last thought you should consider some kind of control system so you're not juggling 4 remote controls to turn on the projector, switch amp to source, control source(s), dim the lights etc...they can give the room much more of a WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor).
Of your £12k budget, I would allocate it somewhere around this:
£5000 projector & screen (e.g. £4000 JVC DLC-X5900 (HD) or £5500 Sony VPL-VW260ES (4K))
£2500 receiver + amping for 11 channels (e.g. Arcam AVR390 + ebay 4-channel power amp, or Marantz SR8012)
£2000 LCR speakers (e.g. XTZ Cinema series M6)
£1500 surround (2), rear (2) and height (4) speakers (brand may depend on install in-wall vs on-wall)
£500 subwoofer (e.g. XTZ 10.17)
£500 control system (e.g. RTI or Control4)
£500 ancilliaries (projector mount, cables etc).
But many, many other options exist and most would give very good results. Just remember that the smaller your LCR speakers, the harder your sub needs to work.
One point I’ll add to the already good list posted above is room mapping.
Using a projector will require you to plan your viewing distance, depending on your screen size. I used this to locate where my projector would be sited as well as where I would sit.
I worked on the premise of them PJ being in its optimal state (no zoom etc) and being as far from the seats as possible to reduce extraneous noise from the fans.
The will help you form the room as well as site the speakers and the required cabling which can be installed in advance. Given the low ceiling height and arched design, this is a big consideration as it’s not a friendly shape for sound reproduction.
I also converted a basement area for mine (also on AV forums as The Subterranean Sinema) but it’s proven to be an excellent performing space.
Using a projector will require you to plan your viewing distance, depending on your screen size. I used this to locate where my projector would be sited as well as where I would sit.
I worked on the premise of them PJ being in its optimal state (no zoom etc) and being as far from the seats as possible to reduce extraneous noise from the fans.
The will help you form the room as well as site the speakers and the required cabling which can be installed in advance. Given the low ceiling height and arched design, this is a big consideration as it’s not a friendly shape for sound reproduction.
I also converted a basement area for mine (also on AV forums as The Subterranean Sinema) but it’s proven to be an excellent performing space.
I did a home cinema in my basement a year or two ago. For the screen, based on some recommendations, I made my own frame, bought filmex from Jag at EpicHomeCinema (£100 for enough material to make a 105" screen), edged in wood painted with blackboard paint. Looks amazing, quality is as good as any TV I've seen (a lot of people think its a TV at first).
Benefit of making my own was I could maximise the space available, and set speaks either side with no gaps.
Benefit of making my own was I could maximise the space available, and set speaks either side with no gaps.
I did this eight years ago in a smaller room and it still gets used all the time.
Equipment is obviously well out of date now and I had a smaller budget than you at the time (just gone through a divorce!).
I posted it on AVForums and there is a link here if you are interest. I've considered updating the equipment but every time I use it I just don't see the point!
I got everything from Richer Sounds (who did the instillation too).
Let's see some pictures!
https://www.avforums.com/threads/small-14-x-10-hom...
Equipment is obviously well out of date now and I had a smaller budget than you at the time (just gone through a divorce!).
I posted it on AVForums and there is a link here if you are interest. I've considered updating the equipment but every time I use it I just don't see the point!
I got everything from Richer Sounds (who did the instillation too).
Let's see some pictures!
https://www.avforums.com/threads/small-14-x-10-hom...
JulianPH said:
I did this eight years ago in a smaller room and it still gets used all the time.
Equipment is obviously well out of date now and I had a smaller budget than you at the time (just gone through a divorce!).
I posted it on AVForums and there is a link here if you are interest. I've considered updating the equipment but every time I use it I just don't see the point!
I got everything from Richer Sounds (who did the instillation too).
Let's see some pictures!
https://www.avforums.com/threads/small-14-x-10-hom...
Wow, that is very cool! I like that. Thanks for sharing.Equipment is obviously well out of date now and I had a smaller budget than you at the time (just gone through a divorce!).
I posted it on AVForums and there is a link here if you are interest. I've considered updating the equipment but every time I use it I just don't see the point!
I got everything from Richer Sounds (who did the instillation too).
Let's see some pictures!
https://www.avforums.com/threads/small-14-x-10-hom...
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