Power cables (for amp)

[mgv8]

I ended up making my own up, but for people who like me believe it dose make a difference what make and model of power cable did you choice?

[Monty Python]

This sort of thing always makes me wonder why the manufacturer of said amplifier doesn't do this in the first place (especially if the difference is that obvious).

[deckster]

I have a good selection. They're behind the rack of pre-burnt-in directional speaker cables and the clearance box of volume knobs made from frozen unicorn tears.

[S6PNJ]

I'd suggest that whatever you use for the last 2-3 ft connection to your amp is as good as the 20-30 ft (or more) of wiring you have from your socket back plate to your consumer unit, so probably 2.5mm T+E. If you are going to upgrade your amp power cable, why stop there and why not do the rest of the distance to your CU?

[mgv8]

S6PNJ said:

I'd suggest that whatever you use for the last 2-3 ft connection to your amp is as good as the 20-30 ft (or more) of wiring you have from your socket back plate to your consumer unit, so probably 2.5mm T+E. If you are going to upgrade your amp power cable, why stop there and why not do the rest of the distance to your CU?

That is the plan so the AMP will have its own power cable from the supply.

The cable is not add anything but can take it away, so if you have got low quality connectors and thin cable then the supplied cable can be changing things. It will also depend on a lot on the system. The main point is if you don't think it matters then just don't spend the money. For me I gave it go as you could see the cable and the new one looked a lot better. There was not expectation for sound improvement, but there was.

[WinstonWolf]

Just checking in

[mgv8]

Monty Python said:

This sort of thing always makes me wonder why the manufacturer of said amplifier doesn't do this in the first place (especially if the difference is that obvious).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fxsc8P4jdY

[996owner]

mgv8 said:

S6PNJ said:

I'd suggest that whatever you use for the last 2-3 ft connection to your amp is as good as the 20-30 ft (or more) of wiring you have from your socket back plate to your consumer unit, so probably 2.5mm T+E. If you are going to upgrade your amp power cable, why stop there and why not do the rest of the distance to your CU?

That is the plan so the AMP will have its own power cable from the supply.

The cable is not add anything but can take it away, so if you have got low quality connectors and thin cable then the supplied cable can be changing things. It will also depend on a lot on the system. The main point is if you don't think it matters then just don't spend the money. For me I gave it go as you could see the cable and the new one looked a lot better. There was not expectation for sound improvement, but there was.

Why not get the local electric company to run a fresh cable into your house too, via dedicated underground cables direct from the grid with your own sub station?

Mains cable makes ZERO difference.

Any amp will take mains in, drop it down to a usable level, turn it into DC and then smooth it out with capacitors. The power supply in the amp is most critical section with regards to sound quality. a cheaper alternative for you would be to get a mains isolating transformer or UPS if you with to "clean " the mains sypply.

each to their own thou

[mgv8]

996owner said:

Why not get the local electric company to run a fresh cable into your house too, via dedicated underground cables direct from the grid with your own sub station?

Mains cable makes ZERO difference.

Any amp will take mains in, drop it down to a usable level, turn it into DC and then smooth it out with capacitors. The power supply in the amp is most critical section with regards to sound quality. a cheaper alternative for you would be to get a mains isolating transformer or UPS if you with to "clean " the mains supply.

each to their own thou

Have a google of UPS for HiFi and you will see why that would not work. But yes you can get system to clean up the mains.

So a question for you, have you got a high end system and if so have you tried swapping out the power cable?

For me I have and yes there was a clear difference. As I have said you don't think there is then good for you enjoy your HiFi and the cash you have saved. For any one that has and found it did make a difference please tell me about your lead.

[996owner]

mgv8 said:

996owner said:

Why not get the local electric company to run a fresh cable into your house too, via dedicated underground cables direct from the grid with your own sub station?

Mains cable makes ZERO difference.

Any amp will take mains in, drop it down to a usable level, turn it into DC and then smooth it out with capacitors. The power supply in the amp is most critical section with regards to sound quality. a cheaper alternative for you would be to get a mains isolating transformer or UPS if you with to "clean " the mains supply.

each to their own thou

Have a google of UPS for HiFi and you will see why that would not work. But yes you can get system to clean up the mains.

So a question for you, have you got a high end system and if so have you tried swapping out the power cable?

For me I have and yes there was a clear difference. As I have said you don't think there is then good for you enjoy your HiFi and the cash you have saved. For any one that has and found it did make a difference please tell me about your lead.

I use to build radio studios for a living, broadcast engineer for 25 years :-)

Our studios were fed from "tech mains" via a UPS then into a generator. The reason, if the mains failed the UPS took over until the genny started, was there a quality difference NO. Why go via tech mains so in the event of a power cut we kept on broadcasting. Our systems were checked by the IBA (Independent Broadcast Authorities) They'd shut you down in a heartbeat if standards dropped.

Go trace your live mains connector (13 amp plug) from the amp back to the socket on the wall and back to the consumer board and it'll go via a trip breaker That trip will be fed by THE SAME live bus that comes from the meter, result NO difference.

To completely isolate yourself from "noise" on the mains you need to isolate yourself from all other equipment, hence a completely separate incoming clean mains supply.

For the record I worked on very high end kit Neve, Quad, DDA, Neumann, Spendor. Incoming mains was the last of our priorities when it came to quality issues.
But hey its your cash, just trying to save you a few £££

oh and yes my audio kit is top end thanks

[ATG]

996owner said:

use to build radio studios for a living, broadcast engineer for 25 years :-)

That makes you a lizard person whose sole objective is to deny humans decent stereophonic reproduction.

Tonight I'm mostly refrigerating my CDs to reduce their thermal noise.

[996owner]

ATG said:

996owner said:

use to build radio studios for a living, broadcast engineer for 25 years :-)

That makes you a lizard person whose sole objective is to deny humans decent stereophonic reproduction.

.

Iye deffo I always hated the amount of processing the programmes insisted we had on our output. Make it louder they say !

[Tony1963]

It’s a funny old subject, mains leads for hifi. It’s your money, and if you can afford to experiment, why not do it?

But first, make sure all existing connections are good. For example, a slightly loose connection into the rear of a wall socket isn’t a good idea, so get it tightened.

I have a four-headed Graham’s Hydra for my Naim Gear. That made quite a difference, and was only £75 secondhand.

I’ve tried a home build IEC lead with flashy fittings on thick twin and earth, heard no difference.

I know a few engineers of differing backgrounds, and as much as they can apply exacting engineering reasons why certain things in hifi should NOT work, they’re happy when they do.

We are not talking about laboratory test boxes here, just electronics etc to help us enjoy reproduced music.

[urquattroGus]

These guys (MCRU) do a good selection of mains cables for sensible ish prices. https://www.mcru.co.uk

Happy with what I bought, went for angled Furutech connectors so that I could place my components closer to a wall too (they are in an alcove)

[deckster]

£15 for a fuse? £70 for kettle lead? £85 for a multi-strip?

Sensibly priced indeed.

[Tony1963]

deckster said:

£15 for a fuse? £70 for kettle lead? £85 for a multi-strip?

Sensibly priced indeed.

To an extent, I agree. However, if you tried something at home on a free trial, and it improved the sound (to you, nobody else matters) would you be tempted? After all, under £100 for an improvement in a hifi system is a bargain. And I’m sure some here can quickly post links to similar items costing hundreds, and into thousands of pounds.

[ATG]

They don't make any difference to the sound, objectively or subjectively, to the owner or anyone else. Signal source, amps, speakers, the speakers' location and the rest of the room they're in. These make a big difference.

[Tony1963]

ATG said:

They don't make any difference to the sound, objectively or subjectively, to the owner or anyone else. Signal source, amps, speakers, the speakers' location and the rest of the room they're in. These make a big difference.

I’m sure this will have been discussed many times on PistonHeads and every other forum that covers hifi. And yet even the most cynical forum member sometimes gives a new mains lead a go, and can’t believe what he’s hearing. Is he wrong? Is he wrong to try it for a month, swap back, and still prefer the new one?

Naim used to only sell the IEC mains leads that were supplied with their amps etc. Pretty standard, nothing flash at all. Then they introduced the PowerLine, after years of declaring there was nothing to be gained. They’re now £600 each, and not only do they sell, but the used market in them is bouyant.

Ok, fuses I’d struggle with, but I’d try. Mains multisocket strips? Definitely worth a go if you need to buy one anyway.

As ever, buyer beware, and keep things within budget.

[ruggedscotty]

Those that buy an expensive power lead are deluded. if it made a difference then your original was goosed and should have been replaced repaired anyways....

The mains is exactly that a power supply that supplies a number of consumers, and as such any thing connected to the grid could have an effect on the supply quality. a power lead is passive. and to have an effect on 230v 50hz would take some doing. A power lead should be designed to be able to carry the required amperage without generating voltage drop, so if your amplifier takes 30A from the mains and your lead has a resistance of 1 ohm then you would be dropping 30v... so you see its about the resistance of the lead and this should be as low as possible with some decent tight terminals where there are terminals... this includes all the terminals right back to the generators lol.

Your supply can be affected in a few ways, harmonics. as we have embraced electronics this has had an effect, dimmers cookers phone chargers anything that uses power electronics to alter the mains has a habit of superimposing harmonics of different orders on the mains waveform. If that's the case your lead wont wake a difference. You will need to have some active mains conditioning. An on line UPS unit is the best ive come across for that, mains is brought in and stepped down rectified and smoothed into DC where it then charges and keeps charged a set of batteries. This DC bus made up from the rectified filtered low voltage dc obtained from the mains and the battery is then inverted to pure 50Hz and stepped back up to 230v 50Hz. because there is a buffer in the form of the batteries and also a pure 50Hz sinewave generated and stepped up there will be minimal disruption on the power being outputted.

Now this output is then required to be kept away from other mains cables and forms of electrical interference, don't run it past any arc furnaces or other high current or high frequency influencers. Proper screening and careful consideration of any earth loops. If you were serious about HiFi then you would be looking to create your own totally separate power supply and then create your own earth farm and keep that separated.

So it starts to the amount of setting up just to remove the external influences of the incoming power and its got nothing to do with a lead. but a lot more involved than just a cable due to influences that are nothing to do with the cable.

Edited by ruggedscotty on Sunday 2nd February 18:14

[deckster]

Tony1963 said:

Naim used to only sell the IEC mains leads that were supplied with their amps etc. Pretty standard, nothing flash at all. Then they introduced the PowerLine, after years of declaring there was nothing to be gained. They’re now £600 each, and not only do they sell, but the used market in them is bouyant.

Wow. I can think of absolutely no reason why Naim would sell these. Nosiree, no idea.

I get the "It's my money and I think it sounds better" argument, and I really am not telling anybody how to spend their own money. But without reliable, consistent, repeatable double-blind tests it's not even subjective: it's just snake oil sold at quite astonishing mark-ups by shysters that are completely unable to back up their claims with either empiric evidence or scientific reasoning.