Power cables (for amp)

[TonyRPH]

Tony1963 said:

Which is great if everything is exactly as designed. Often, especially with the years rolling by, or with used gear, things ain’t what they should be.

Even if all the fuses in the equipment had been bypassed / hardwired, in many cases the equipment would fail catastrophically (e.g. overheat / fire) before a 13A fuse would blow.

Tony1963 said:

So, for any improvement in the music, it ain’t worth hardwiring anything to the mains that shouldn’t be.

Has anyone on this thread done it?

I've read of people doing it on other sites but I wouldn't advocate it myself.

[996owner]

Christ there's some interesting theories on here.....

Get an oscilloscope and look at the mains, I think you'll fine its pretty clean. That said don't advise some of the experts on there doing this AND MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING IF YOU DO!!!!!!!

As for wiring amps direct, I can't say its a good idea and not something i'd do. If I did it would have to use a fused spur so I could turn the amp off. As to what difference it would make in my opinion none, unless some bullst tells me now the plugs/sockets are directional?


As for fuses. A fuse is chosen to reflect the cable its protecting. A simple pat testing course will tell you that.
Standard hifi amps should only really have a 3 amp fuse, that's 690w of power consumption Possibly 5 if its a very powerful amp.
Use Ohms law. P (power) is I (current) X V (Voltage) P = I (3 amp rating) X V 230v = 690w max Does your hifi amp use 690w?

In our broadcast studios, Mains came into the room, first point into an isolator then to a 19" rackmount MDU. Each output if fused (just cheap CPC fuses not the £5million pound directional ones) then off to each piece of kit.
I think some of you really need to try and get a visit to a radio/tv/recording studio. you'd be amazed at the lack of "nonsense"


Just one more thing to mention. Some mains transformers have thermal fuses to help protect them, I cant really see anyone being able to change that little one.

Edited by 996owner on Wednesday 19th February 10:07

Edited by 996owner on Wednesday 19th February 12:19

Edited by 996owner on Wednesday 19th February 12:59

[Tony1963]

Makes me chuckle.

Electricians and studio bods telling people how it is. Because, you know, they know everything. And then I hear some of the recordings that some of these studios chuck out and wonder whether everyone in the team was stone effin deaf. Adele’s albums, anyone?

Try these things for yourself. For free if you can. If it works for you, great. If it doesn’t, great.

[Deranged Rover]

legzr1 said:

Unfortunately, three of the power cables are 1M long, the 4th 1.5M and they’re just too short to reach my power outlets!

So, in summary - different mains cables do make a difference to the sound!

[Deranged Rover]

996owner said:

Get an oscilloscope and look at the mains,

Er, it's probably better not to casually give out advice like this. It can end in tears if you don't know what you're doing.

[legzr1]

Deranged Rover said:

So, in summary - different mains cables do make a difference to the sound!

£800 power chord, too short to reach, and there it is - inky black silence with a noise floor around -700db. Stunning.

I’ll be trying them on the source soon then I’ll pull everything onto the floor to go direct to the wall socket.

[996owner]

Deranged Rover said:

996owner said:

Get an oscilloscope and look at the mains,

Er, it's probably better not to casually give out advice like this. It can end in tears if you don't know what you're doing.

Yeah I did think that after I posted it. probably best edited :-)

Any you'd hope someone who knows how to use a scope and owns one would what their doing !?

Edited by 996owner on Wednesday 19th February 12:21

[996owner]

Tony1963 said:

Makes me chuckle.

Electricians and studio bods telling people how it is. Because, you know, they know everything. And then I hear some of the recordings that some of these studios chuck out and wonder whether everyone in the team was stone effin deaf. Adele’s albums, anyone?

Try these things for yourself. For free if you can. If it works for you, great. If it doesn’t, great.

It makes me chuckle when we see "Professional XLR cables for £250 https://www.futureshop.co.uk/chord-shawline-2-xlr-... that use EXACTLY the same XLR connectors we pro's buy for a few quid.....

As I have said earlier IF you really wanted to improve the quality of the audio you much better off spending your hard earned cash on the acoustics of the room or better equipment.

It was said earlier that a power amp has mains in, via a transformer into a DC power supply. The DC power supply is the most critical item in any audio equipment. The DC MUST be smooth at that point, big smoothing caps do this, any ripple here will be heard at the output. If you really want to improve sound quality get your audio kit serviced and recapped. Capacitors dry out and fail over time causing poor frequency response ect ect.

As for the quality of recordings that's down the producers and mastering/mix engineers creating the "Sound" they want. It wont be down to "directional fuses or special mains cables"
If there was any truth in "directional fuses bla bla " the professional installers would go with it and we simply don't.

As for most people hifi is a hobby and I get that, each to their own. I get annoyed when I see outfits selling "Professional cables " for £250+ In my opinion that's ripping off those who don't know what the pro's use.

[Crackie]

Tony1963 said:

Makes me chuckle.

Electricians and studio bods telling people how it is. Because, you know, they know everything. And then I hear some of the recordings that some of these studios chuck out and wonder whether everyone in the team was stone effin deaf. Adele’s albums, anyone?

Try these things for yourself. For free if you can. If it works for you, great. If it doesn’t, great.

This in bold...….listening is what matters. The human ear is capable of detecting errors and flaws that the very best test gear cannot.

During my time as a supplier and OEM manufacturer in the Hi-Fi industry I was fortunate to some seriously good gear, demonstrated as the manufacturer intended. I had demos at B&W's Cinema in the Worthing factory and at their research facility in Steyning. And at KEF, TDL, Acoustic Energy, Meridian, Celestion, Dali, Mission, Wharfedale, Cyrus and many more. For several years, as an OEM supplier, I was responsible for managing the testing of finished product testing for B&W, Mission, KEF, TDL and others. They all had their own preferred test gear and methodology but one way or another I've listened critically for flaws and spurious noises on thousands of speaker systems and managed the testing of tens of thousands over the years. Despite some of them employing the most sophisticated impedance, amplitude and distortion measurement methods available...…..human testing identifies flaws the measurement gear does not.

[Gary C]

Crackie said:

This in bold...….listening is what matters. The human ear is capable of detecting errors and flaws that the very best test gear cannot.

And the human mind is capable of convincing itself to believe anything.

[TonyRPH]

Crackie said:

<snip>..…..human testing identifies flaws the measurement gear does not.

No, human testing identifies the changes required in order to make the sound more suited to the listener(s).

It's nothing to do with measuring equipment not being able to identify flaws.

If only we could program our measuring equipment to "hear" the sound we like to hear it eh?

[thebraketester]

Gary C said:

Crackie said:

This in bold...….listening is what matters. The human ear is capable of detecting errors and flaws that the very best test gear cannot.

And the human mind is capable of convincing itself to believe anything.

[996owner]

Inter studio cable used at Abbey Road. http://www.van-damme.com/case-studies/abbey-road-s...

24 way cable works out at just under £27/meter works out £1.12/meter per source/channel Not exactly expensive !

https://www.designacable.com/van-damme-blue-series...

[Tony1963]

Professionals.

So everyone here should use the same tools that Kwik Fit fitters use, because strictly speaking they’re professionals and therefore they know best.
Taxi drivers. They’re professionals. I’ll take my driving advice from them.

I think (and be gentle with me here) Russ Andrews has kitted at least one studio out with his cabling, and the studio was impressed with the changes.

But hey. I’m deaf, stupid, and easily conned. As are the well respected engineers I know that have spent big on mains supply.

[thebraketester]

I can’t believe you have just compared Abbey Road to Kwik Fit.

[Tony1963]

[LordLoveLength]

Tony1963 said:

Electricians and studio bods telling people how it is. Because, you know, they know everything. And then I hear some of the recordings that some of these studios chuck out and wonder whether everyone in the team was stone effin deaf. Adele’s albums, anyone?

You don’t necessarily hear the recording that the studio ‘chucks out’ though.
You hear what the publisher issues. This is often very different to the final mix the engineer and artist produce.
It is very often mangled through something like a TC Finaliser before issue to give a house sound.

I can assure you that a recording engineer will spend a lot longer choosing and placing a microphone than the cable that connects it.
They will often move their arm to ‘adjust’ settings to please the artist without changing anything! All about expectations and reassurance, but the artist hears the change.

Now ask yourself how much it costs to ‘design’ and produce a cable that will have no measurable difference?
You will get it made in the 1000s of metres at a time and at huge cost so it must sound better right?

Or you could buy some unbranded nice cable and spend your money on marketing, price it high, give a few free samples to favourable reviewers and tell your customers they’re basically deaf if they can’t hear the difference.

Worth noting some of these high end cable and accessories vendor have had run ins with the ASA over their ridiculous claims that they are unable to back up.

[996owner]

LordLoveLength said:

Tony1963 said:

Electricians and studio bods telling people how it is. Because, you know, they know everything. And then I hear some of the recordings that some of these studios chuck out and wonder whether everyone in the team was stone effin deaf. Adele’s albums, anyone?

You don’t necessarily hear the recording that the studio ‘chucks out’ though.
You hear what the publisher issues. This is often very different to the final mix the engineer and artist produce.
It is very often mangled through something like a TC Finaliser before issue to give a house sound.

I can assure you that a recording engineer will spend a lot longer choosing and placing a microphone than the cable that connects it.
They will often move their arm to ‘adjust’ settings to please the artist without changing anything! All about expectations and reassurance, but the artist hears the change.

Now ask yourself how much it costs to ‘design’ and produce a cable that will have no measurable difference?
You will get it made in the 1000s of metres at a time and at huge cost so it must sound better right?

Or you could buy some unbranded nice cable and spend your money on marketing, price it high, give a few free samples to favourable reviewers and tell your customers they’re basically deaf if they can’t hear the difference.

Worth noting some of these high end cable and accessories vendor have had run ins with the ASA over their ridiculous claims that they are unable to back up.

100%

I was taught 1 little trick by a recording engineer, Once a piece of material is produced it should be reviewed on a cheapo speaker to make sure it sounds ok as thats what a lot of people have at home. Very wise words. For the ref speaker we used the cue/talkback speaker.

I've to a TC Finaliser in the hifi before the power amp. A little OTT but with varying levels between tv channels and sources I don't have a issue with volume anymore.

for the others on this thread,the TC Finaliser are very powerful bits of kit that can completely change the way a mix sounds. Often used to talor a sound to suit a particular requirement.

[LimSlip]

Tony1963 said:

Makes me chuckle.

Electricians and studio bods telling people how it is. Because, you know, they know everything. And then I hear some of the recordings that some of these studios chuck out and wonder whether everyone in the team was stone effin deaf. Adele’s albums, anyone?

Do you believe the poor recording quality of Adele's album was caused by the mains cable powering the mixing desk not costing several hundred pounds? Or that insufficient mains filtering was provided? Or is it more likely that one of the poeple responsible for the job wasn't particularly competent?

Your 'chuckling' is effectively denial. You certainly don't want to be told that your expenditure on stupidly expensive cables has made no difference, and of course you will suffer cognitive bias if you paid for them. What really makes me chuckle is how audiophools seem to shy away from double blind testing.

[LimSlip]

996owner said:

Inter studio cable used at Abbey Road. http://www.van-damme.com/case-studies/abbey-road-s...

24 way cable works out at just under £27/meter works out £1.12/meter per source/channel Not exactly expensive !

https://www.designacable.com/van-damme-blue-series...

Looked through the website and I can't find the required exotic wooden supports to space the cable off the floor at the correct height, and I don't even see a burn-in service, are these guys serious?

Wrapping the cable in nylon mesh, applying some heatshrink at the terminations and upping the price by at least a couple of orders of magnitude will dramatically improve the immediacy of a transients inception, permitting an incredible expanse of harmonic information and musical envelopment to follow.